Discussion: Gay Rights XV

[spideyboy_1111]

It's just ironic to me that in today's society everyone is suppose to agree with same sex marriages and relationships or else. If you're a religious person or not and don't agree with it your automatically labeled as a horrible person. However, it's totally okay to bash religious people and their viewpoints.

For example, say a famous athlete, movie star etc says they are religious and don't agree with gay marriage in a respectful way, they would be BLASTED, by the media and everyday people. Their career would take a hit or even be over because of something like that. However, its perfectly acceptable to have people who live their life anyway they want to mock religious view points and nothing is said about it. I am not a hateful person like I have mentioned in my previous posts, but I stand by my beliefs. If that makes me a horrible person to some then so be it.

SB, I agree with the hypocrisy to some extent. But my only problem with your logic is that while it's your belief, and by all means, you're entitled to it. I just find it humorous Non gay people are telling gay people how they must think, feel, and that they're making conscious efforts to be gay.

when in reality.. you have no idea what it's like. No concept of what it's like, and simply just no clue. Unless you yourself are fighting same-sex urges and withholding them and doing a great job at it.

What upsets me about religion is this concept that gay men and women are "inflicted with a disease" or are doing a poor job at combating temptation that all humans have to deal with. It's just absurd, especially when it's coming from people who don't have to deal with any of those thoughts

ultimately, i think you've done a good job at trying to be respectful. You still have alot to learn, but you arn't blatantly full of hatred.

 

[SlamAdams]

It's just ironic to me that in today's society everyone is suppose to agree with same sex marriages and relationships or else. If you're a religious person or not and don't agree with it your automatically labeled as a horrible person. However, it's totally okay to bash religious people and their viewpoints.

Really? There's no anti-same-sex-marriage people mocking pro-same-sex-marriage people? I don't think that's right. There is literally a protest group that tours the country doing that exact thing and plenty of talking head pundits and talk show hosts that agree with you.

For example, say a famous athlete, movie star etc says they are religious and don't agree with gay marriage in a respectful way, they would be BLASTED, by the media and everyday people. Their career would take a hit or even be over because of something like that. However, its perfectly acceptable to have people who live their life anyway they want to mock religious view points and nothing is said about it. I am not a hateful person like I have mentioned in my previous posts, but I stand by my beliefs. If that makes me a horrible person to some then so be it.

Having it end a career is pretty absurd, I agree with that.

But here's another example, 2 consenting adults in a long-standing sexual and romantic relationship who have decided to completely share their lives with each other want to get married. Why is their a stipulation regarding the genitalia of those 2 people?

I don't believe you are full of hate, but I do think your lacking some perspective.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

On the "career ending" note. I have to say, people also have to understand that when they say "I dont agree with gay marriage" or "I dont agree with the homosexual lifestyle" theyre saying to everyone who is gay "I dont agree with who you are, and you shouldn't have the same rights as us "normal" folk"

There's honestly no real way to not come off that way nor is there a way to not sound judgmental. And thats because of the fact one is basically saying "im better than you and will tell you how it should be based on my own beliefs that should govern all"

Its a sticky situation. Its better to not have opinions on how people live there lives when it neither harm anyone nor personally effects you.

 

[SlamAdams]

On the "career ending" note. I have to say, people also have to understand that when they say "I dont agree with gay marriage" or "I dont agree with the homosexual lifestyle" theyre saying to everyone who is gay "I dont agree with who you are, and you shouldn't have the same rights as us "normal" folk"

There's honestly no real way to not come off that way nor is there a way to not sound judgmental. And thats because of the fact one is basically saying "im better than you and will tell you how it should be based on my own beliefs that should govern all"

Its a sticky situation. Its better to not have opinions on how people live there lives when it neither harm anyone nor personally effects you.

As much as I agree with the last bit, taking away someone's livelihood seems pretty rash.

 

[Schlosser85]

I don't think someone's career should be railroaded simply because they don't approve of gay marriage. That doesn't make the gay community look good.

There's a big difference between civilly articulating that one's religious beliefs lead them to disagree with homosexuality, as ShadowBoxer has done, and going on some profane rant and using homophobic slurs like a couple athletes have done recently.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

As much as I agree with the last bit, taking away someone's livelihood seems pretty rash.

Well I dont think its that black and white. One could argue Tim Tebow lost his job because he became a poster boy for this attitude. One would be fired for belittling women or making racist comments in a place of work as well.

The moral of the story is personal beliefs should remain as such... personal. Keep them to yourself because it can effect your relationships with friends, family, and even your job (especially when it pertains to other people)

 

[SlamAdams]

Well I dont think its that black and white. One could argue Tim Tebow lost his job because he became a poster boy for this attitude. One would be fired for belittling women or making racist comments in a place of work as well.

The moral of the story is personal beliefs should remain as such... personal. Keep them to yourself because it can effect your relationships with friends, family, and even your job (especially when it pertains to other people)

Not sure I believe those people should lose their jobs either, unless they are actively discriminating in employee hiring, firing, and promoting.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Not sure I believe those people should lose their jobs either, unless they are actively discriminating in employee hiring, firing, and promoting.

eh... thats not actually true. Yes many get away with it. But many also get fired everyday for making derogatory remarks. You can fire someone based off that if they create a hostile work environment and make your other employees feel uncomfortable.

the trick with the gay marriage aspect is the "my religious beliefs" card. which isn't grounds for firing

times will change though, people use to back up misogyny and segregation with the bible as well...

 

[wiegeabo]

When it comes to marriage, religious beliefs don't get to dictate whether gay marriage can happen or not.

Because marriage, in this country, is not tied to religion. One can have a religious marriage, but one could also have a secular marriage. And both couples can be straight. And both be married in the eyes of the law with the equal rights a marriage guarantees.

It really boils down to two things:
1) The Supreme Court ruled that marriage is a right. So denying the ability for people to marry is a violation of their rights (under the 14th Amendment).

2) There are religions/sects/denominations that are friendly to gay marriages, and churches that want to perform them. Denying gay marriage violates their rights as well.


If you don't like gay marriage, fine. But there's no legal reason to deny them.

 

[Anubis]

Honestly, I don't much care if people who get caught saying how they don't support gay marriage have their careers destroyed. I'd say it's karmic payback for eons of things being the other way around. Actors who had their careers ruined cuz they got outed during the 50's and 60's. Brilliant writers like Oscar Wilde who got outed and spent the rest of their lives rotting away in prison for loving someone of the same sex. Hell, just look at the origin of the F-Word if you wanna know how bad it's been for homosexuals. Don't even get me started on the plight of the transgendered.

So if some pampered Millionaire bigot loses some endorsement deals cuz he thinks gays are icky, I'd say it's a good start to balancing the scales.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Honestly, I feel sometimes the public opinion pendulum swings too far in our direction. Maybe there should be a difference between "I think marriage is between a man and a woman, because those are the beliefs I was raised with" and "I think marriage is between a man and a woman because condoning homosexuality is like condoning alcoholism and terrorism."

 

[Schlosser85]

Honestly, I feel sometimes the public opinion pendulum swings too far in our direction. Maybe there should be a difference between "I think marriage is between a man and a woman, because those are the beliefs I was raised with" and "I think marriage is between a man and a woman because condoning homosexuality is like condoning alcoholism and terrorism."

I agree with this.

 

[Kelly]

I am a Christian, it is a big part of my life, but I am not opposed to Gay marriage....I have very close friends who are gay and I love them like brothers...because they are people, and they love me as well.

I have friends who believe that homosexuality is a sin, as is cheating on your spouse, gossip, and the many other things that are mentioned in the Bible. However, they see no reason why people who are gay can't get married, they feel that is their right and who's right is it to tell them they can't. BUT, when they have stated that exact belief...they have been called a bigot, gay-hater, and a few other names that I can't post here. They, if I'm not mistaken, answered a question on Facebook and were literally slammed for it by many who were gay, were not gay, etc...and a couple who had been friends with them for years through their workplace, who knew they were Christians, and major churchgoers...literally let them have it. So it seemed to me, that as long as they kept their beliefs to themselves, it was ok. So I believe there are good and bad people in all "walks of life" in all communities, etc....it is what it is.

This site has allowed the bashing of Christian beliefs far more that it has allowed the bashing of gays. I'm not whining about it, I never have...I very seldom actually went into the Christian threads, I am very personal about those things, it is a relationship with God that is my own. But I can understand posts like what Shadowboxer posted, and I respect posts like Pink Rangers, and I TOTALLY respect how people in this thread have handled people that have come into the thread with the sole purpose to troll it...it has been a fierce response, but respectful. That doesn't happen everywhere, it doesn't even happen everywhere on this site. It says a lot about those that post regularly on this thread, and it says A LOT of good.

I don't see the Bible as the inherent word of God, it may very well be, but no one has proven to me that it was....I see it as a book that can be looked upon as a history book of sorts. When reading it I research the background of the writer, the background of who they are writing to, what was happening at the time it was written...and when that is done, it sheds a far reaching and sometimes very interesting view for interpretation. I try and live by the basic tenants of the teachings of Christ, I don't always hit the mark, but I try. I honestly don't know what religion is right or wrong or if religion will have anything to do with it in the end. I know that they all have some basic tenants that are very similar and they are based on the basic respect of people, so whether I agree with them (other beliefs) or not doesn't blot out that basic idea and give me the right to tear them down.

As I tell my students, we will find out one day who was right, and who was wrong...I can just hope that I made the right decisions.

In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Sounds pretty simple to me.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I totally respect your opinions Kelly and understand were your coming from. My sole purpose for posting in this topic was to shed some light on the perception that all Christians are full of hate towards gay people and gay marriage. Like I said, I am a Christian and try to live my live in a way that's pleasing to God. Not saying I am perfect or never make mistakes or have never sinned as that's certainly not the case. I love everyone the same way christ loves us. I do believe that the bible is the word of God and he selected certain men to write it. Sure, there are customs, and things that are outdated and aren't acceptable in today's world, but for the most part, most of the things that it talks about is still going on or is relevant in today's world just in modern form. To get to the point, I don't hate gay people, in fact I love them as brothers and sisters in Christ. However, I don't agree with how they live their life as my belief says it's displeasing to God, a sin, and something he never intended for us.

I know some gay people can't control those urges and feelings for the same sex and wonder why God would make them that way. I don't have an answer for that as I am not God, but I do know it's for a purpose that only he knows and will revel to those individuals if they are open to it. So again, I many not agree with homosexuality or gay marriage, but don't interpret that as hatred. Even though I disagree with it, I will treat you with respect and kindness as long as you so me the same. At the end of the day, only God can judge , my job is to simply love people as he does. That to me is what the Christian life is like.

 

[Mad Ones]

I don't want to be tolerated, and if you respect me you wouldn't call my expressions of love a sin. These ideas are so damaging. Saying that you have toleration really means that you are able to moderate your hatred instead of turning to violence, something for which gay people should be grateful for. If homosexuality is a sin than it is something that should be hated. Simple enough. I reject the idea that Christians "love the sinner, but hate the sin," because when it comes to homosexuality I am my "sin." Saying my life is a sin is an act of hatred, whether or not you feel it is that way, because of the psychological and personal affects those words can have. I'm the one ultimately affected by proclamations that homosexuality is against God, not you (not anyone here personally, just those that say things like that on social media and are surprised when there is backlash).

Christianity is a dominant institution in Western society that has some kind of impact on everyone's life. As a result, it is our responsibility to critically evaluate the impacts this institution has. And it's largely been called out on how damaging it is regarding members of the LGBTQ population (not all types of Church and not all Christians, obviously). Christians need to evaluate why this is and how to fix it, instead of being victimized by being labeled as a bigot, because that's not going to fix anything.

By Christianity I'm largely referring to the institution, not the religious or spiritual side.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I was anti-gay marriage for a while, mostly because well, I straight up didn't like gay people, and I didn't see their relationships as equal to straight relationships.

You can use your religion as a justification, but it really just is prejudice.

Just fess up to it.

 

[Mad Ones]

And I preferred hearing that over "tolerance" and "sin." It still hurts like hell, but it's revealing and a good place to start a dialogue.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't want to be tolerated, and if you respect me you wouldn't call my expressions of love a sin. These ideas are so damaging. Saying that you have toleration really means that you are able to moderate your hatred instead of turning to violence, something for which gay people should be grateful for. If homosexuality is a sin than it is something that should be hated. Simple enough. I reject the idea that Christians "love the sinner, but hate the sin," because when it comes to homosexuality I am my "sin." Saying my life is a sin is an act of hatred, whether or not you feel it is that way, because of the psychological and personal affects those words can have. I'm the one ultimately affected by proclamations that homosexuality is against God, not you (not anyone here personally, just those that say things like that on social media and are surprised when there is backlash).

Christianity is a dominant institution in Western society that has some kind of impact on everyone's life. As a result, it is our responsibility to critically evaluate the impacts this institution has. And it's largely been called out on how damaging it is regarding members of the LGBTQ population (not all types of Church and not all Christians, obviously). Christians need to evaluate why this is and how to fix it, instead of being victimized by being labeled as a bigot, because that's not going to fix anything.

By Christianity I'm largely referring to the institution, not the religious or spiritual side.

I gotta agree with this. (Kelly as well was well said)

Over all im fine with SB but a big part of love and respect is also the attempt to understand. The compassion to understand someone who is different is very much love. You can still believe gay marriage is wrong based on your religion if you choose to. But the fact sb continues to act as if us gays are "inflicted" with "urges" and what not is what I find insulting.

Like ive said before unless said christians are constantly battling said "same sex urges" and "winning" they have absolutely no clue on the subject. And its completely bizzarre and insulting that they seem to tell us how we think and feel as if we are brainwashed or full of a disease. Thats what reallllllly bothers me.

You can find gay marriage wrong all you want. But if people are telling you what its like to be gay and you constantly ignore them and write off there information, thoughts etc... that is neither love nor respect. And makes one seem full of it when they keep spouting such words

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I was anti-gay marriage for a while, mostly because well, I straight up didn't like gay people, and I didn't see their relationships as equal to straight relationships.

You can use your religion as a justification, but it really just is prejudice.

Just fess up to it.

I agree. And in 90% of situations like your own its basically prejudice created from lack of exposure. But the more gay people you meet or when someone close to you comes out it begins to change your perspective.

Everyone is different. There's people I cant stand in my own minority group lol

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I'll never understand why people are so invested in hating or being against something that has absolutely no impact on their lives. I hate Justin Bieber, but you don't see me trying to start a PAC to get his concerts banned. It's just mind-boggling how much free time and money to waste, the anti-gay marriage crowd has on their hands.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'll never understand why people are so invested in hating or being against something that has absolutely no impact on their lives. I hate Justin Bieber, but you don't see me trying to start a PAC to get his concerts banned. It's just mind-boggling how much free time and money to waste, the anti-gay marriage crowd has on their hands.

Oh I know. It really angers me when I think about the billions wasted on something so obviously inevitable. The things that money could have been spent on instead...

 

[Doctor Evo]

To be clear once and for all. To me I consider being gay a lifestyle choice. It make not be correct in all cases but that's my viewpoint. Like I said, in my original post, I tolerate gay people but I don't agree with same sex relationships and wanted to clarify that not all people that don't support gay marriage or relationships are bigots or totally ignorant.

You keep saying that, yet you can't seem to explain what that actually means.

 

[SV Fan]

When it comes to gay marriage simple fact is if you claim you love this country because it's freedoms and liberties, sometimes that means freedoms and liberties for people who might do something you dislike. Sad thing for me is most anti gay marriage people are the ones who chirp the loudest about loving America because of freedoms and liberties and also claiming how much they hate big government interfering with people's lives.

While I don't think anybody should be forced to accept something they dislike, why they feel the need to have big government deny people's rights is beyond me. If they don't like gay marriage then basically don't get gay married and let other people choose for themselves and leave it at that.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I'll never understand why people are so invested in hating or being against something that has absolutely no impact on their lives. I hate Justin Bieber, but you don't see me trying to start a PAC to get his concerts banned. It's just mind-boggling how much free time and money to waste, the anti-gay marriage crowd has on their hands.

If you started that PAC, you'd have $2 million in the first hour.

 

[Majik1387]

I personally loathe the 'tolerance' crap being spewed more than the 'sin' and 'unnatural' bs.