🇺🇸 Discussion: Guns, The Second Amendment, NRA - Part II

[Boom]

Yeah. Sounds like the guy already had a grudge.

Not to say Trump's rhetoric isn't completely ridiculous and dangerous in its own right.

 

[Mike5575]

The only thing that might have happened is that Trump's thetoric pushed him over the edge or verified him in his believe that the press needs to die.

The US can be happy this was most likely not (purely) motivated by Trump's rhetoric. Because if it would have your country would be at the edge of a cliff you should not be standing at.

This is what I'm thinking what possibly happened. It's impossible to know for sure , but it can't be ruled out altogether.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

As irresponsible as Trump’s rhetoric is, it seems pretty flimsy trying to connect this incident to him or Milo, considering Ramos had a grievance with the Gazette going back to 2012.

The thing is, sometimes all these people need is validation for their bat**** crazy theories, and suddenly they have that little push they need. I don't think it is a coincidence that violence against Muslims and Latinos has gone up since the start of the 2016 election.

This piece of **** could have a 6 year feud with them, but something changed that had him show up with a gun to start killing people. Maybe it was something else, something personal. But what Trump says is completely dangerous.

 

[Reaver027]

This is what I'm thinking what possibly happened. It's impossible to know for sure , but it can't be ruled out altogether.

And that is very scary. Because this could embolden others that feel like the press is an enemy of the state because of Trump. He needs to make sure this does not happen. Stuff like this could lead to severe civil unrest.

 

[Teelie]

The only thing that might have happened is that Trump's thetoric pushed him over the edge or verified him in his believe that the press needs to die.

The US can be happy this was most likely not (purely) motivated by Trump's rhetoric. Because if it would have your country would be at the edge of a cliff you should not be standing at.

This case might not be directly a result of Trumps rhetoric but how many times have we seen copycats go and do similar violently homicidal things later with a different reason for it after getting inspired? There has been an increase in people using vehicles as weapons to kill outside of ISIS. Just because those people weren't ISIS does not mean they were not inspired to use their weapon as a tool in their attack on someone. With Trump openly attacking journalism it is only a matter of time before we see another shooting that is undeniably linked to his comments.

 

[squeekness]

This case might not be directly a result of Trumps rhetoric but how many times have we seen copycats go and do similar violently homicidal things later with a different reason for it after getting inspired? There has been an increase in people using vehicles as weapons to kill outside of ISIS. Just because those people weren't ISIS does not mean they were not inspired to use their weapon as a tool in their attack on someone. With Trump openly attacking journalism it is only a matter of time before we see another shooting that is undeniably linked to his comments.

I'm sad to say that I have to agree with you as disagreements in the country justg seem to get uglier and decency is nowhere to found. It really is just a matter of time.

 

[Holiday]

We already had a politically motivated shooting with the softball game last year, when the Bernie Sanders supporter shot Steve Scalise and others.

On the subject of dangerous rhetoric, we also have Maxine Waters calling for the public to harass anyone from the Trump administration if they're seen in public.

 

[Aximili86]

That's my problem with this. If some scumbag goes takes out Stephen Miller or something, these same people are hardly going to lay it on Waters. And they shouldn't, no one should. She's saying some stupid stuff, but that's where it ends.

Words aren't violence, violence is violence. Trump's said some ****ty stuff (and to his credit he came out and condemned this guy and and physical action against journalists in the wake of this), but the crime's squarely on the guy who did it. And he didn't even do it based on anything related to this in the first place, this all goes back to a 2012 beef.

 

[Teelie]

Words inspire violence. That you are trying to dispute that... have you ever read history books?

 

[Aximili86]

Bull****. There are very clear legal statutes on this, the difference between free speech and inciting actual violence. Trump hasn't called for journalists to be attacked, and he even came out reiterating that they have a right to do their work without fear in the wake of this.

And even if your assertion holds, that's a two-way street. Hypothetically some crazy ****er goes and guns down a Trump staffer or a Breitbart office, you're going to be all up in arms calling for Waters' political head because she's an inciter of violence? Right? Because you're a consistent person.

Uh huh.

 

[Donner]

Threatening students seems to be a pastime for Republicans.

 

[Aximili86]

Whoever posted that is a ****ing degenerate.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Bull****. There are very clear legal statutes on this, the difference between free speech and inciting actual violence. Trump hasn't called for journalists to be attacked, and he even came out reiterating that they have a right to do their work without fear in the wake of this.

And even if your assertion holds, that's a two-way street. Hypothetically some crazy ****er goes and guns down a Trump staffer or a Breitbart office, you're going to be all up in arms calling for Waters' political head because she's an inciter of violence? Right? Because you're a consistent person.

Uh huh.

Its only a two way street if both sides are doing the same thing. That is what you are missing. The Republicans, including the president, are doing all these things to an overwhelming degree. Does Democratic leaderships come out and say the stuff Trump does? His people? Trump is the one who started threatening and suggesting violence at his own rallies. The one who supported cops roughing up people they arrest. The lies about seeing Muslims celebrate 9/11.

 

[Teelie]

Bull****. There are very clear legal statutes on this, the difference between free speech and inciting actual violence. Trump hasn't called for journalists to be attacked, and he even came out reiterating that they have a right to do their work without fear in the wake of this.

And even if your assertion holds, that's a two-way street. Hypothetically some crazy ****er goes and guns down a Trump staffer or a Breitbart office, you're going to be all up in arms calling for Waters' political head because she's an inciter of violence? Right? Because you're a consistent person.

Uh huh.

He doesn't have to outright ask for it (though he has implied it openly before) but you aren't going to relent on that. He is quite literally toeing the line by telling people that the news is fake, that anything that is negative is a lie and that there should be consquences for telling these fake lies. He has openly stated that he thinks any media that is negative to him (so anything not right leaning) should lose its credentials and that anyone who disagrees with him is somehow deserving of repurcussions.


He isn't saying go attack journalists but he sure as hell is making it clear his disdain for the news reporting on his every move and I doubt he is all that upset when the media who he hates gets a bloody nose or a few dead bodies.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He doesn't have to outright ask for it (though he has implied it openly before) but you aren't going to relent on that. He is quite literally toeing the line by telling people that the news is fake, that anything that is negative is a lie and that there should be consquences for telling these fake lies. He has openly stated that he thinks any media that is negative to him (so anything not right leaning) should lose its credentials and that anyone who disagrees with him is somehow deserving of repurcussions.


He isn't saying go attack journalists but he sure as hell is making it clear his disdain for the news reporting on his every move and I doubt he is all that upset when the media who he hates gets a bloody nose or a few dead bodies.

He also gave a pass to Putin for murdering journalist, while praising him for being a strong leader.

 

[Aximili86]

He isn't saying go attack journalists but he sure as hell is making it clear his disdain for the news reporting on his every move

Yes. Yes. And those aren't even remotely the same things.

Also for what it's worth, there's literally d*ck-all pointing to this shooter even being a Trump supporter. They've searched his house, been through his online life, and days later they're still not attributing any political leaning whatsoever to the motive. For all you ****ing know, this guy couldn't stand Trump just the same as you.

Pretty sure Waters has thrown around equivalent "enemy of the people!" stuff in her comments in recent days, regarding action supposedly-necessary to be taken as part of the resistance. It still wouldn't be her fault if some moron went on a shooting rampage against official Trumpies. What she's been saying is inflammatory and irresponsible, but that's fine. You're allowed to say inflammatory and irresponsible stuff, even as an elected official. You're not allowed to go tell people to hurt other people. Neither she nor Trump have risen to that bar.

 

[Donner]

Really? Trump has never told his supporters to hurt people?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-incitement-violence/

 

[Donner]

I am anxiously waiting your response defending Trump on this one.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He has done the, "back in the day" thing multiple times. Implying heavily that he would love to return to the days when violence was an answer.

 

[Fading]

Bull****. There are very clear legal statutes on this, the difference between free speech and inciting actual violence. Trump hasn't called for journalists to be attacked, and he even came out reiterating that they have a right to do their work without fear in the wake of this.

And even if your assertion holds, that's a two-way street. Hypothetically some crazy ****er goes and guns down a Trump staffer or a Breitbart office, you're going to be all up in arms calling for Waters' political head because she's an inciter of violence? Right? Because you're a consistent person.

Uh huh.

Trump has a history of threatening people. It's not simply stirring people into a frenzy with lock her up chants.

Remember when Trump said he'd pay the legal fees of any of his supporters that got violent? Remember when he made a gun motion saying Bergdahl should be shot? Or when he said Biden, “would go down fast and hard” if they fought. Saying bullets should be soaked in pigs blood. Calling not just journalists, but judges enemies

Also, yes, words can incite violence. Especially when they come from the most powerful man in the country, an elected leader. Especially when that man calls innocent civilians enemies. Not just the media, he's been harsh on judges, and private citizens too.

I'm for free speech without a doubt, but a president, of all people, can't just say everything that pops into mind. Judges have already agreed on this given Trump's tweets have already been used in courts to lesson sentences (like in Bergdahl's case).

 

[Sithborg]

Well, there is a rather large gun violence protest in Chicago, shutting down a highway. Good to see the passion is still there.

 

[Aximili86]

Stopping people from getting to work, that'll convince 'em!

Ah, you guys are adowable.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Stopping people from getting to work, that'll convince 'em!

Ah, you guys are adowable.

It's always amazing when people like to ignore to the history of the United States of America. How movements in the past were treated.

 

[MaceB]

Stopping people from getting to work, that'll convince 'em!

Ah, you guys are adowable.

Annoying people and instigating them into action is the whole point. What are you suggesting? If only we handed out enough pamphlets, that'd stop this problem?

 

[Holiday]

At least they did this on a Saturday, though I imagine a lot of people are still trying to get to work even on the weekend. I'd rather see them protest outside of Rahm Emanuel's office. Also, I'm curious to which gun laws they'd consider a benefit to the city.