Discussion: Racism - Part 2

[Sithborg]

Welp, Trump just called the uptick in anti-semitic attacks false flags.

Heil!!!

 

[hellified]

It's not there...ala invisible? I'm not the one that stated it was or wasn't there. You can take that up with the OP.

the people who have issues with BLM usually cite that BLM means black lives matter more than anyone elses.. hence the all lives matter pushback.

the reality is the slogan means black lives have value as well especially when you look at the historical treatment black people have gotten thru the justice system.

anyone not seeing that is being purposefully obtuse.

 

[djsunyc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CbKjNWS864

 

[DeadPresident]

People honestly need to stop using personal appeals to emotion to engage others on the issue of racism. The people that that works on are already non-racist and already support a society devoid of discrimination. What is her point? That racial stereotyping exists? Of course it does, but slam poetry in official buildings won't solve that, socializing the coming generation to be considerate and compassionate toward their fellow people irrespective of identity categories will change that.

A society becomes more progressive because of education and constructive social engagement with each other as a natural part of one's upbringing, trying to change the firmly held beliefs of adults is futile in the extreme. America is just becoming exactly the same way that many third world countries already are socially; backward and tribalist, and that's going to last for as long as the current fascist administration is around.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Good

sit your racist selves in prison

http://www.ajc.com/news/local/judge...uglasville-hate-crime/pHWEb5zXxdVqGBGxGNtorI/



love that

once a closed minded s**t head, always a closed minded s**thead

Something else had to happen? So long a sentence for disrupting a birthday party with racist bull crap?!

 

[hellified]

Something else had to happen? So long a sentence for disrupting a birthday party with racist bull crap?!

“Members of the group pulled out a shotgun and pointed it at the victims,” Douglas County District Attorney Brian Fortner said in a statement. “They used racial slurs and threatened to kill some of the party-goers. They even threatened to kill children at the party.

 

[TheCommissioner]

A California waiter refused to serve a group of Latina women until he saw "proof of residency"

As the waiter walked up to the table, Carrillo figured she’d splurge on the grilled-cheese sandwich and pay the $2 up-charge to add some of the restaurant’s signature bacon. To start, maybe she’d share a watermelon and cheese plate with her sister and friends.

But the mood soured quickly after the waiter appeared. Before he could serve the four Latina women, he said, they needed to show proof of residency. “I need to make sure you’re from here,” he said.

 

[Sithborg]

“Members of the group pulled out a shotgun and pointed it at the victims,” Douglas County District Attorney Brian Fortner said in a statement. “They used racial slurs and threatened to kill some of the party-goers. They even threatened to kill children at the party.

Yup, lock them away.

And I hope that waiter is fired, if true. It is kind of shocking how quickly we can turn into a "papers, please" nation.

 

[routhman]

I'm a young, white, American man. Politically, I'm a liberal, and I'm a firm advocate of equality for all people.

I saw Jordan Peele's Get Out, and I came away with my own interpretation of the film. I left the theater with the sense that the film was largely meant to put a spotlight on white privilege and to refute the broader the myth of a post-racial America; the latter point, I think, is repeatedly illustrated in the film by the mutual suspicion, anxiety, and awkwardness that characterizes the exchanges between the white and black characters, and is taken to the horrific extreme by the white characters' more appalling actions. I didn't interpret the film to be an indictment of any group of people, but as a way to point out uncomfortable truths about race, racial identity, and racism through an exaggerated and surrealist lens.

As I've come to find after a survey of a number of different reviews, there's a wide range of different interpretations out there, which have further convinced me of layers within the film that I hadn't previously seen. For instance, one writer pointed out how [BLACKOUT]body snatching really represents the most extreme form of cultural appropriation possible[/BLACKOUT] (doh); how I couldn't see that before, I'm not sure, but I think it speaks to how packed the film is, and how as a white man I'm not as in tune with these issues as I could be.

With that said, I would like to be better, I would like to do better, and I do believe in and hope for a world where race doesn't hold anyone back, where everyone regardless of race is treated with the same respect, and has the same opportunities.

Which is how I found this article: http://themuse.jezebel.com/get-out-and-the-threat-of-the-white-monster-1792770870. In it, the author Clover Hope, a young African American woman, seemingly interprets the film as an indictment against white people in general, with quotes like:

1. "the story tell itself...is about the collision of black bodies with white people’s propensity to be predators"
2. "They (whites) want to be something they (blacks) fear and they (whites) terrorize in pursuit of it. This is the white monster at work."
3. "The white people in the theater are watching themselves, and perhaps there’s a weird catharsis in seeing the exorcism of their own guilt."

It's as if Ms. Hope sees the film not as metaphorical but as literal truth. When I read these quotes, I read them as specific, broad accusations against white Americans. Phrases like "white monster" and "white terror" feel almost militant. And certainly, I take deep issue with the allegation that I was "watching myself" in that theater.

Frankly, her words--to me--feel racist. They feel hurtful.

But at the same time, I want to be sensitive to her perspective, and I don't want to jump to anger. The only way we make any of this better is by leaving our gut feelings at the door and having real, honest conversations.

Is her article a racist diatribe of its own? If it isn't, can you help me understand why not?

 

[TheCommissioner]

Her assertion is dead on

its proven by the Freddie Grays, the Trayvon Martins, the Erik Garners and your sensitivity about it

not all that concerned about your fee-fees there,in the context of what the film means

This film is basically a concentrated version of what is happening today

I'd bet if you told white people thought they could get away with some s**t like this, they definitely would do it

 

[routhman]

What happened to those men (and even worse, Trayvon was a boy, really) was wrong. It was disgusting. And they deserved justice they didn't get.

But I don't think those white moronic, horrible gunslingers = all white people.

 

[moviedoors]

I'd bet if you told white people thought they could get away with some s**t like this, they definitely would do it

I think there's ****** people within literally any and every demographic that would jump at the chance to be sadistic monsters if told they could get away with it.

And meanwhile, the rest of us would remain horrified by it.

 

[TheCommissioner]

What happened to those men (and even worse, Trayvon was a boy, really) was wrong. It was disgusting. And they deserved justice they didn't get.

But I don't think those white moronic, horrible gunslingers = all white people.

No, but the larger message is that the capacity is there

hell, you had someone on ridiculous Fox News saying that Snoop Dogg should be shot by the Secret Service for his video and comments he made about 45

the innate view that black and brown people are not human/equal is pervasive among white people

hell, look at your statement - about "race not being a factor anymore". so its not lets try and understand and work with other races, its lets erase the concept of "race" so white people don't have to have difficult conversations

 

[routhman]

No, but the larger message is that the capacity is there

hell, you had someone on ridiculous Fox News saying that Snoop Dogg should be shot by the Secret Service for his video and comments he made about 45

That person said a ridiculous thing. Fox News commentators do not represent me.

the innate view that black and brown people are not human/equal is pervasive among white people

Many awful people believe that black and brown people are "less than." These people are caustic, racist imbeciles who don't deserve the air they breathe.

I do not hold those beliefs. I actively denounce them. So do a huge, huge percentage of white people.

hell, look at your statement - about "race not being a factor anymore". so its not lets try and understand and work with other races, its lets erase the concept of "race" so white people don't have to have difficult conversations

I never said that race shouldn't be a factor. Different races, cultures, experiences, and ideologies bring richness to a society. They shouldn't be suppressed or forgotten or toned down.

On the contrary, I said that everyone should be equal and have the same opportunities.

I want to have the difficult conversation. That is what I am trying to do.

 

[chaseter]

Good luck with any conversation in this thread.

 

[terry78]

Regarding Get Out, at this point in my life I wouldn't trade being black for anything. There are things you just....experience and deal with that others never will. And yes, there is a slight more sense of "will I even survive to a certain age" going on.

 

[samsnee]

Let's see, a guy comes to New York City just to kill black people Definite hate crime.


How does the NY Post cover it?

Well-dressed suspect in fatal stabbing surrenders to cops

And how do they describe the victim, who was just a random person that was murdered?

Caughman, who had 11 prior arrests, staggered around the corner to the Midtown South Precinct looking for help.

 

[terry78]

No shocker there.

 

[Docker2.0]

Let's see, a guy comes to New York City just to kill black people Definite hate crime.


How does the NY Post cover it?

Well-dressed suspect in fatal stabbing surrenders to cops

And how do they describe the victim, who was just a random person that was murdered?

Unreal. But I can guarantee there are some posters here who see absolutely nothing wrong with this article.

 

[samsnee]

Ugh, looks like an Israeli kid is behind the threatening calls to Jewish Centers around the world. Breitbart is going to have a field day about this and Trump will say he was right when he said that maybe it was Jewish people doing it to themselves.

Of course, this still doesn't explain the toppled headstones in Jewish cemetaries. Yes, could also be the work of an angry Israeli kid. But my point is, you can't deny that the rise of white nationalism out in the open isn't disturbing.

 

[chamber-music]

Let's see, a guy comes to New York City just to kill black people Definite hate crime.


How does the NY Post cover it?

Well-dressed suspect in fatal stabbing surrenders to cops

And how do they describe the victim, who was just a random person that was murdered?

Not surprised.

People with a functioning brain will see through the prejudiced bull**** hopefully.

 

[Docker2.0]

Not surprised.

People with a functioning brain will see through the prejudiced bull**** hopefully.

They won't. They will some how find a way to justify it or completely ignore it. Racism died years ago. Let some people tell it, people are just whining for no reason.

 

[RockSP]

They won't. They will some how find a way to justify it or completely ignore it. Racism died years ago. Let some people tell it, people are just whining for no reason.

Well statistically speaking, well dressed guys from Maryland don't travel to NY to specifically kill black guys...so clearly this incident has nothing to do with race. Because statistics.

 

[ouroboros]

I'm a young, white, American man. Politically, I'm a liberal, and I'm a firm advocate of equality for all people.

I saw Jordan Peele's Get Out, and I came away with my own interpretation of the film. I left the theater with the sense that the film was largely meant to put a spotlight on white privilege and to refute the broader the myth of a post-racial America; the latter point, I think, is repeatedly illustrated in the film by the mutual suspicion, anxiety, and awkwardness that characterizes the exchanges between the white and black characters, and is taken to the horrific extreme by the white characters' more appalling actions. I didn't interpret the film to be an indictment of any group of people, but as a way to point out uncomfortable truths about race, racial identity, and racism through an exaggerated and surrealist lens.

As I've come to find after a survey of a number of different reviews, there's a wide range of different interpretations out there, which have further convinced me of layers within the film that I hadn't previously seen. For instance, one writer pointed out how [BLACKOUT]body snatching really represents the most extreme form of cultural appropriation possible[/BLACKOUT] (doh); how I couldn't see that before, I'm not sure, but I think it speaks to how packed the film is, and how as a white man I'm not as in tune with these issues as I could be.

With that said, I would like to be better, I would like to do better, and I do believe in and hope for a world where race doesn't hold anyone back, where everyone regardless of race is treated with the same respect, and has the same opportunities.

Which is how I found this article: http://themuse.jezebel.com/get-out-and-the-threat-of-the-white-monster-1792770870. In it, the author Clover Hope, a young African American woman, seemingly interprets the film as an indictment against white people in general, with quotes like:

1. "the story tell itself...is about the collision of black bodies with white people’s propensity to be predators"
2. "They (whites) want to be something they (blacks) fear and they (whites) terrorize in pursuit of it. This is the white monster at work."
3. "The white people in the theater are watching themselves, and perhaps there’s a weird catharsis in seeing the exorcism of their own guilt."

It's as if Ms. Hope sees the film not as metaphorical but as literal truth. When I read these quotes, I read them as specific, broad accusations against white Americans. Phrases like "white monster" and "white terror" feel almost militant. And certainly, I take deep issue with the allegation that I was "watching myself" in that theater.

Frankly, her words--to me--feel racist. They feel hurtful.

But at the same time, I want to be sensitive to her perspective, and I don't want to jump to anger. The only way we make any of this better is by leaving our gut feelings at the door and having real, honest conversations.

Is her article a racist diatribe of its own? If it isn't, can you help me understand why not?

I believe that such a diatribe becomes racist once it is no longer posed as a corrective-- that is, an attempt to change the hearts and minds of oppressors-- and is instead predicated on accepting the oppressor as a static enemy who will never change, and can only be thwarted through direct confrontation.

That static attitude I find virtually indistinguishable from the arguments of defenders of Confederate slavery, who chose to view all black people as equally incompetent to vote, own property, and so on.

Here's one I deem worse: a woman who defines "black priviiege"-- that is, the automatic assumption that any black person can call a white person a racist if that white person doesn't INSTANTLY validate a black person's interpretation of matters.

 

[ouroboros]

the whole point of black lives matter is to highlight the history and practice of dismissive behavior and attitude towards black people in the justice system. Even tho zimmerman wasn't a cop, when he killed trayvon martin the DA declined to investigate what happened beyond the initial walkthrough. The outcry was for a through investigation of how a teen who went out to get junk food ended up dead. The way the initial investigation came off it seemed like the cops showed up..saw a black teen in a hoodie took zimmermans statement and assumed the kid got what he deserved, gave zimmerman his gun back and said sorry for the inconvenience.

BLM isn't a new thing its existence is the culmination of many decades of police beating, killing or harassing blacks and by and large never really being held accountable.

Didn't the Florida PD offer public statements to defend their position on releasing Zimmerman? Like, maybe, given the prevalence of the "stand your ground" law, they had no choice about whether to release him without any immediate evidence to contradict his story of being attacked?

I don't see anything on Wikipedia about what the Florida DA did or didn't do. The Sanford police chief and county state attorney apparently had charge of the investigation, and they didn't pursue the case. Public protests ensued, both men stepped down from the investigation, and then State Attorney Angela Corey took over the prosecution by the Florida governor's appt. If you want to claim that the police chief and the first attorney were racists because they didn't pursue Zimmerman, that's a possible argument. But I don't see how the arresting officers had any alternative but to let Zimmerman go under state law-- though none of that exculpates officers who have genuinely committed crimes against black persons, as in the cases of Sandra Bland and Freddie Grey.