Discussion: Racism - Part 3

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Are we really going to split hairs on bigotry?
 
RockSP said:
It's always interesting/weird/funny how people haphazardly conflate race with religion.
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Real jews though? But that in itself is awhooolllleee nother conversation that a lot of people don't want to touch on. :o
 
DarthSkywalker said:
Are we really going to split hairs on bigotry?
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Nah it's not that. The same people who sit here and say that certain people just whine about racism will look for something that doesn't even affect the big picture to try and say that straight white males have it just as bad. I'm not saying they don't but it's nowhere near how it is being a minority. I can't imagine being Mexican and being pulled over in Arizona or being black dude and being pulled over in Mississippi with a white girl on the passenger side. And people are complaining about a rant that does have a slight ring of truth about it?
 
Docker2.0 said:
Nah it's not that. The same people who sit here and say that certain people just whine about racism will look for something that doesn't even affect the big picture to try and say that straight white males have it just as bad. I'm not saying they don't but it's nowhere near how it is being a minority. I can't imagine being Mexican and being pulled over in Arizona or being black dude and being pulled over in Mississippi with a white girl on the passenger side. And people are complaining about a rant that does have a slight ring of truth about it?
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Are you seriously making this argument when it comes to the Jewish people?

Also using stereotypes to attack someone is bigotry. It perpetuates the bigotry. What if you used such things to attack a woman or a minority? Would it not be bigotry?
 
DarthSkywalker said:
Are you seriously making this argument when it comes to the Jewish people?

Also using stereotypes to attack someone is bigotry. It perpetuates the bigotry. What if you used such things to attack a woman or a minority? Would it not be bigotry?
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I'm sorry but I do not see what she said as racist. Sorry but I don't. I guess because I grew up and seen exactly what she seen. I am in no ways anti-sematic(my best friend is Jewish:cwink:)but even Jews make jokes about she is saying.
 
Docker2.0 said:
I'm sorry but I do not see what she said as racist. Sorry but I don't. I guess because I grew up and seen exactly what she seen. I am in no ways anti-sematic(my best friend is Jewish:cwink:)but even Jews make jokes about she is saying.
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What she said was antisemitic and the type of language people have used to justify the treatment of the Jewish people for thousands of years. Do you want to ignore the context of history?

Also did you just play the, "I have Jewish friends" card?
 
DarthSkywalker said:
What she said was antisemitic and the type of language people have used to justify the treatment of the Jewish people for thousands of years. Do you want to ignore the context of history?

Also did you just play the, "I have Jewish friends" card?
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Dude that was clearly a joke, hence the wink. :whatever: And she wasn't talking about what happened thousands of years, she was saying what goes on in poor minority filled communities. Sorry but every argument and statement that people make can't be twisted to be racist or anti whatever because we don't agree with it. I've used this same argument for Trump and against minorities as well. Go back and look at my past post. Everything is not black and white and people should not be so easily offended when some truths are put out there.
 
Docker2.0 said:
Dude that was clearly a joke, hence the wink. :whatever: And she wasn't talking about what happened thousands of years, she was saying what goes on in poor minority filled communities. Sorry but every argument and statement that people make can't be twisted to be racist or anti whatever because we don't agree with it. I've used this same argument for Trump and against minorities as well. Go back and look at my past post. Everything is not black and white and people should not be so easily offended when some truths are put out there.
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This is the same exact reasoning for pulling over Hispanic people in Arizona for being Hispanic and it is the same for young black men in pretty much any community. Roseanne wasn't talking specifically about pre-Civil Rights movement America, so her calling a black person what she did clearly wasn't racist.

What is the "truth" she is putting out there?
 
DarthSkywalker said:
This is the same exact reasoning for pulling over Hispanic people in Arizona for being Hispanic and it is the same for young black men in pretty much any community. Roseanne wasn't talking specifically about pre-Civil Rights movement America, so her calling a black person what she did clearly wasn't racist.

What is the "truth" she is putting out there?
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I don't like her brand of comedy, but if comedians of the past were to tell jokes today that they did in their day, they'd be labeled racist. I don't like her jokes and I'm not a celebrity in the spotlight so may words won't be micromanaged. With that being said, she has a right to say what she said and she paid for it with her show.

Honestly, some discussions HAVE to be made or everything is going to be bottled in until it finally explodes. Real talk, this country is on edge whether people realize it or not because people can't say a darn thing without people being offended. All it takes is the wrong freaking spark and civil war may erupt. And I don't care what people say but it's not as far off as people think.
 
DarthSkywalker said:
Are we really going to split hairs on bigotry?
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No. But you used the right term, at least. Let's say that same lady was ranting and raving stereotypical crap about muslims for example, instead of jews. I see people calling the bigots who are anti-muslim "racist" all the time. Practicing Islam doesn't make you a member of any particular racial group anymore than practicing Judaism does.
 
Docker2.0 said:
I don't like her brand of comedy, but if comedians of the past were to tell jokes today that they did in their day, they'd be labeled racist. I don't like her jokes and I'm not a celebrity in the spotlight so may words won't be micromanaged. With that being said, she has a right to say what she said and she paid for it with her show.

Honestly, some discussions HAVE to be made or everything is going to be bottled in until it finally explodes. Real talk, this country is on edge whether people realize it or not because people can't say a darn thing without people being offended. All it takes is the wrong freaking spark and civil war may erupt. And I don't care what people say but it's not as far off as people think.
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That is because those comedians were racist. The majority of America was racist for the majority of this country's existence. What is your point? She has the right to say what she said. It wasn't a joke and it was clearly racist.

How come real talk always sounds like we need to make room for people to be racist, sexist, homophobic and just all around bigots without consequences?
 
The thing with Judaism is that it goes beyond just being a religion. People talk about having Jewish heritage all the time, as if it's more than what god they pray to. You don't hear Christians or Muslims talking about their religious roots.

For whatever reason, being Jewish has evolved well past a religion that one can choose to be a part of or not.
 
DarthSkywalker said:
That is because those comedians were racist. The majority of America was racist for the majority of this country's existence. What is your point? She has the right to say what she said. It wasn't a joke and it was clearly racist.

How come real talk always sounds like we need to make room for people to be racist, sexist, homophobic and just all around bigots without consequences?
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The thing about comedians, the good ones anyway, is that the tell the truth with humor. This is what made George Carlin good. Dick Gregory told a lot of his "jokes" to advance certain people but as soon as he got older, he didn't hide what he was doing and became an all out activist. Rosie has her fanbase, and a large one at that, which again, speaks volumes about why we need this talk as a country because the right match would set this thing on fire.
 
RockSP said:
No. But you used the right term, at least. Let's say that same lady was ranting and raving stereotypical crap about muslims for example, instead of jews. I see people calling the bigots who are anti-muslim "racist" all the time. Practicing Islam doesn't make you a member of any particular racial group anymore than practicing Judaism does.
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I see your point. I think one of this happens is racist and their rants don't necessarily distinguish. The racist blur the lines themselves. It is why you see Sikhs attacked for being Muslim. A lot of people do not distinguish between race, ethnicity or religion. They see someone they consider to look Middle Eastern, and assume they are Muslim.
 
Elektra1 said:
The thing with Judaism is that it goes beyond just being a religion. People talk about having Jewish heritage all the time, as if it's more than what god they pray to. You don't hear Christians or Muslims talking about their religious roots.

For whatever reason, being Jewish has evolved well past a religion that one can choose to be a part of or not.
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Just type it into Google. It is very clearly a question that has had a lot of discussion. So it isn't like it is odd to call it a race.
 
Docker2.0 said:
The thing about comedians, the good ones anyway, is that the tell the truth with humor. This is what made George Carlin good. Dick Gregory told a lot of his "jokes" to advance certain people but as soon as he got older, he didn't hide what he was doing and became an all out activist. Rosie has her fanbase, and a large one at that, which again, speaks volumes about why we need this talk as a country because the right match would set this thing on fire.
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You keep on saying truth like harmful, BS stereotypes and straight up racism are truth. What about Roseanne calling a black person an ape is truth? What about grouping all Jewish people as racist is truth?
 
DarthSkywalker said:
You keep on saying truth like harmful, BS stereotypes and straight up racism are truth. What about Roseanne calling a black person an ape is truth? What about grouping all Jewish people as racist is truth?
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I am going to say this and be done with it. She is speaking truth to her fan base. To me and you it's not. But she has followers for a reason. That's why I say we need to have a discussion about racism in this country because all this bottled up crap is going to explode. All this easily offended and can't talk about anything.....all it is is just burying everything which is not good. The police brutality: white people see it as "they should just comply" whereas black people see a lot of it as excessive and flatout murder. It needs to be addressed instead of being pushed aside. I don't know how to say it any easier.
 
Docker2.0 said:
I am going to say this and be done with it. She is speaking truth to her fan base. To me and you it's not. But she has followers for a reason. That's why I say we need to have a discussion about racism in this country because all this bottled up crap is going to explode. All this easily offended and can't talk about anything.....all it is is just burying everything which is not good. The police brutality: white people see it as "they should just comply" whereas black people see a lot of it as excessive and flatout murder. It needs to be addressed instead of being pushed aside. I don't know how to say it any easier.
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That is exactly how racism and bigotry endures, spreads. She has fans because a lot of people are still racist and bigots. And to try and defend it and act like it is fine to say, "well its truth to them" is beyond ridiculous. Disgusting racism and bigotry is not right, no matter the fanbase. Even though you think the antisemitic woman on the train had some truth in her antisemitic rant, does not make it any less antisemitic.
 
DarthSkywalker said:
That is exactly how racism and bigotry endures, spreads. She has fans because a lot of people are still racist and bigots. And to try and defend it and act like it is fine to say, "well its truth to them" is beyond ridiculous. Disgusting racism and bigotry is not right, no matter the fanbase. Even though you think the antisemitic woman on the train had some truth in her antisemitic rant, does not make it any less antisemitic.
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Completely twisted my words but whatever. We agree to disagree. We need to open up dialogue with each other or we won't have to worry about North Korea or Russia. We will tear each other apart from within.
 
Elektra1 said:
The thing with Judaism is that it goes beyond just being a religion. People talk about having Jewish heritage all the time, as if it's more than what god they pray to. You don't hear Christians or Muslims talking about their religious roots.

For whatever reason, being Jewish has evolved well past a religion that one can choose to be a part of or not.
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That's because Jews are literally a race consisting of two or three ethnicities. It's never been just a religion.
 
Jesus. It's amazing, the blind-eye that gets turned to all this anti-semitism stuff flying around this part of the forum.

The old "you can say something about Catholics, but that same barometer applied to a Muslim or Sikh or whatever, hell to pay!" double standard.

Random dude she's met on a train, doesn't know a thing about him, sees the skull-cap and starts ranting about property controversies? Yeah, that's not racist, nothin' to see here. :whatever: "Religion, not race!" cover, like that makes it any better.
 
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