Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 2

[squeekness]

It bugs me more that Moore is hiding behind his Bible while Frankenstein isn't dodging it all. To me that makes Moore much worse. Plus his girls were all way younger than him.

Fraken's behavior seems more juvenile than predatory, I guess.

 

[SV Fan]

Didn't Franken admit it though? That is such a weird little nuance in the story. We have Franken admitting it and the photographer denying?

I think Franklin realizes the optics of the picture look terrible so trying to even reason why it wasn't as bad as it looks is a losing argument

 

[Kelly]

Didn't Franken admit it though? That is such a weird little nuance in the story. We have Franken admitting it and the photographer denying?

I thought he admitted that he had forced a kiss on a female comedian as they were getting ready to go on stage at a USO show.

She accepted his apology, and said that he should not have to resign.

 

[CaptainWagner]

He needs to resign. And the Democrats should also have a zero tolerance policy for anyone who has committed sexual misconduct-harassment, assault, you name it. Al Franken wasted the party's time, millions of dollars, the time and investment of his constituents, and you know he is just one of many.

Ultimately, however, the biggest problem is America is completely and totally broken as a society. This country will never be fixed. Blue States like NY and the West Coast need to start angling for a way out. This nation is a failure and needs to be split up. The American people are greedy and immoral filth for the most part, and pretty much all of them in Red States are. I do not want to be a citizen of a country that elects Donald Trump. I do not be part of union that includes a state that elects Roy Moore. This country needs to end.

I dunno. I like Franken. I like his policies. He has been a good Senator. But how can we be calling for Roy Moore to step aside over unproven allegations of sexual misconduct, and not call for Franken to resign when there is a photo of him groping a sleeping woman who had previously shot down very thinly veiled advances? Is it because he apologized? In that case, then all Roy Moore needs to do is apologize and he is fit to serve as a Senator, no?

I don't think we get to have this both ways. Either sexual harassment/assault is conduct that is disqualifying for a Senator or its not.

Zero tolerance policies for most things are simply not a good idea. Things like this need to be handled on a case by case basis. Passing lump judgements without context never ends well. The people comparing Franken to Moore are doing a massive disservice, because it places Franken's situation (One instance of an inappropriate joke which the even the woman concerned doesn't think he should resign for) on equal standing with a long history of sexually targeting teen girls. Those are in no way equal situations.

 

[squeekness]

Zero tolerance policies for most things are simply not a good idea. Things like this need to be handled on a case by case basis. Passing lump judgements without context never ends well. The people comparing Franken to Moore are doing a massive disservice, because it places Franken's situation (One instance of an inappropriate joke which the even the woman concerned doesn't think he should resign for) on equal standing with a long history of sexually targeting teen girls. Those are in no way equal situations.

Exactly.

 

[Matt]

Zero tolerance policies for most things are simply not a good idea. Things like this need to be handled on a case by case basis. Passing lump judgements without context never ends well. The people comparing Franken to Moore are doing a massive disservice, because it places Franken's situation (One instance of an inappropriate joke which the even the woman concerned doesn't think he should resign for) on equal standing with a long history of sexually targeting teen girls. Those are in no way equal situations.

I generally agree. I think the United States Senate is an exception. The office requires a zero tolerance policy. Franken’s conduct, joke or otherwise, is beneath the dignity of the office.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Didn't Franken admit it though? That is such a weird little nuance in the story. We have Franken admitting it and the photographer denying?

Just imagine what kind of pics will be coming out for politicians in about 20-30 years or so when the folks like us who grew up in the digital age who have had almost their entire lives documented on various social media websites. I still can't get into my old myspace and there is a lot of crap on there I'd prefer to forget existed.

 

[Powerman34]

But Tweeden did say that although she did not want Franken to resign, she did say the voters in his district should be the ones to make the choice to not re elect him. However, she made a good point by saying that if that were your daughter or wife, how would you feel? If he did that to my daughters, or wife, I would be in jail for what I would do to him.

 

[Fading]

While I agree Franken's crimes aren't equal to Moore's, (though both are still sexual assault). I.e. a kiss, and groping for a pic (still disgusting, and awful), vs sexually assaulting, and serial predatory actions on teens. I'm also in agreement for a zero tolerance policy, and think Franken should go for several reasons.

1) It sets a precedent for these types of actions. As in a politician can unwantedly grope, and kiss someone, and keep their job. Or setting a tone that unwanted kissing, and groping isn't "that bad".

At my job, if I were to do those same things, I'd be fired on the spot. Plus it says, "These aren't serious enough of actions to warrant a firing", when they definitely are. It's the same type of sexual harassment we're all trained not to tolerate at the work place.

2) Terrible optics for democrats. Any good Franken could do will be easily overshadowed by this. If Moore joins the senate, he may be expelled, or he could drop out of the race. If he does, but Franken stays in, it looks like democrats have a double standard. Especially given if we condemn Trump's access Hollywood tape bragging about the ability to grope women, but give Franken a pass on...groping a woman.

For years to come, every time Franken grills a Trump croney, or speaks out against corruption, this will be brought up. A shadow that will always hover over Franken's actions.

3) Trust. I think people can grow, and become better, but this is a public servant job. We're supposed to trust our politicians to do what's in the best interest of the country. How is anyone supposed to trust Franken when it comes to voting in women's interest when it comes to sexual assault, or women's rights.

Don't get me wrong, you can look at his voting history. For the most part, prior to this, I thought Franken was a good senator. For his ability to stand up, and ask tough questions if nothing else. However, we have pictures of him disrespecting, and violating a woman in her sleep, and thinking it was funny.

At the end of the day, seeing a politician's true nature in a candid moment can erode that trust. A politician tries to get in office based on being real, and caring about the issues. We hear Franken say he's for women's rights, and see him even vote for them. Then we see him groping someone unwillingly, and unknowingly in his off time. Do we take Franken's words that that's not him?

 

[godisawesome]

As someone who disagrees (sometimes vehemently) with Franken on several policy issues but is a historian and an Anti-Trumper, is it possible that Franken could resign his position, then immediately re-enter the race for his seat as a method of asking for forgiveness and permission to continue to serve?

Just finished reading an article on CNN talking about how often even sever moral failings get forgiven in time for historical figures, so I'm kind of curious if that would be acceptable. In a very real way, most of our political leaders in history have had some moral failings but also done things we still laud.

 

[Silvermoth]

We just had a vote on marriage equality and it got rough but we won it. If I had to give some advice, go for a message that inspires instead of just someone that's anti trump.

Whoever inspires the most is the one that will finally sink Trump

 

[squeekness]

We just had a vote on marriage equality and it got rough but we won it. If I had to give some advice, go for a message that inspires instead of just someone that's anti trump.

Whoever inspires the most is the one that will finally sink Trump

This gives me hope.

 

[routhman]

I generally agree. I think the United States Senate is an exception. The office requires a zero tolerance policy. Franken’s conduct, joke or otherwise, is beneath the dignity of the office.

If you ask me, after all the horrible things our senators and presidents have done throughout the course of history, and in the face of Donald Trump’s rise to the presidency, I think it’s an utter farce to say that any of these offices had any dignity to begin with.

It’s been a history of awful, undignified people speaking politely and being called dignified for it.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Franken should resign, and suggest Trump's resignation in his resignation statement.

His dumb comedian frat guy photo posing was one thing (and the woman said he shouldn't resign), but the newer allegations make it untenable.

 

[squeekness]

It doesn't seem fair for Franken to go and Trump to stay if they are pretty much guilty of the same thing.

 

[Robert_Anthony]

Jezebel gets the leftist Nazi Turkey of the year for making an outrageous suggestion...LET THE PILGRIMS FREEZE TO DEATH!

Dan Gainor with the conservative media blog Newsbusters calls out the Alt-Left one might say Earth-X like site for this piece of snowflake insanity..."Pumpkin Pie: Slice of Heaven or Unadulterated Trash?”

Turns out the story is a debate between Jezebel staff writer Megan Reynolds (anti-pumpkin pie) and Gizmodo senior reporter Anna Merlan (pro). But like any alt-lefty discussion, it quickly moves to hating America. Here’s the actual quote:

“The only thing that should be ashamed of itself is Thanksgiving, a holiday-length ode to white supremacy and an undeserved celebration of a band of uptight zealot weirdos who should have been allowed to freeze to death.” Yep, Pilgrims = “uptight zealot weirdos” who should have been left to die. Oh, and by the way, thanks for helping found the greatest nation in history.

The debate continued and Merlan, in a desperate quest to defend pumpkin pie notes, “pumpkin pie became synonymous with abolitionism.” She concluded her argument with this: “Yeah, dude. A vote for pumpkin pie isn’t just a vote for simple, reliable, satisfying, cinnamon-and-clove goodness, topped with maybe some praline ice cream if you want some more crunchy bits. It’s a vote for sweet, sweet justice.”

Ah justice, not for the founders of our nation. Not for Christians abused by their government so much that they have to flee to America. No, justice for pie.

If it isn't Christopher Columbus, The National Anthem and flag, and Christmas, now the Nazi Earth-X Alt-Left is going after the Pilgrims! What do these New World Order zealots want to happen? Looks like Civil War 2.0.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Glad to see clickbait articles written up by a website with almost no influence on the population at large has triggered you so much. How about you look up the fact the person you elected is not only in the process of raising both our taxes but also in the final stages of making it so you'll have to pay a lot more extra money to find/post these clickbait articles so you can feel like you make good life choices Robert?

 

[MaceB]

Sigh, liberals are the worst. Roy Moore gets accused of Pedophelia and molestation and his conservative constituency is supporting him. Al Franken gets accused of doing the "honk honk" joke on a woman and grabbing a few butts for a matter of seconds to take a picture... and let's get out the pitchforks.

Unbelievable. First, he didn't grope anyone, as is pretty clear in the picture. Second, she gave him permission to rehearse the kiss. Third, this happened before he was a senator. Fourth, grabbing butts without propositioning people is both circumspect as a story and not termination-worthy, regardless of how reprehensible you view it. But liberals will decide, once again, that they need to be the morality police, enabling the conservative monster to get elected while crucifying the liberal who apologized for his behavior.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

Sigh, liberals are the worst. Roy Moore gets accused of Pedophelia and molestation and his conservative constituency is supporting him. Al Franken gets accused of doing the "honk honk" joke on a woman and grabbing a few butts for a matter of seconds to take a picture... and let's get out the pitchforks.

Unbelievable. First, he didn't grope anyone, as is pretty clear in the picture. Second, she gave him permission to rehearse the kiss. Third, this happened before he was a senator. Fourth, grabbing butts without propositioning people is both circumspect as a story and not termination-worthy, regardless of how reprehensible you view it. But liberals will decide, once again, that they need to be the morality police, enabling the conservative monster to get elected while crucifying the liberal who apologized for his behavior.

Two more woman have come forward accusing Franken of inappropriate groping.

 

[MaceB]

Two more woman have come forward accusing Franken of inappropriate groping.

Thanks for demonstrating my point. Why exactly are we being the hand-to-butt police? Do you know how many photos this man takes with constituents every year? There is no accusation that he has propositioned them. Yet, somehow this is more worthwhile to talk about than Net Neutrality, or the broken justice system, or the falsehoods of dynamic scoring? Yeah.... let's spend our valuable time eating on of our own for supposedly touching a few woman's behinds while in public for a few seconds. It's pathetic.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

People can talk and care about multiple issues at the same time. You seem to be the only one here acting like this is more important than anything else at the moment.

 

[MaceB]

This is the issue of the day, and I'm just saying, it's tiring how liberals eat their own all the time. It's a pretty common thing at this point. Conservatives get second chances after hooking up with prostitutes, but you better not catch a liberal polluting. The base will devour them.

 

[Sithborg]

I mean, this is a bit larger than just Franken. Or are you saying that what is going on in general since Weinstein isn't important.

And just because Republicans have been conditioned to vote GOP unconditionally, that doesn't mean Dems are wrong for saying "we can do better". Yes, purity tests can get insane, and is detrimental. But in this case, I think you are more concerned about the standing up and revealing various cases of sexual misconduct.

I like Franken. And he is handling this much better than others. And I don't think anyone is calling for him to end is career forever. But, there should be consequences. Whether that is resigning his seat, I am still in doubt. Him stepping down is no doubt the easiest option.

 

[MaceB]

No, I'm definitely a supporter of the #MeToo movement, and I strongly believe that there are inequities in our culture that should have been addressed a long time ago.

But this is hysteria. I don't believe women should be groped or harassed or belittled, etc, but I also want to call a spade a spade, and keep things in context. Al Franken didn't grope anyone. He has a long record of treating women with respect, very fairly. He's apologized for the behavior and disputed some of it. He should be disciplined by the ethics committee, and that's it.

A LOT of people are calling for him to step down. You know who? Liberals. Progressives. Conservatives are just sitting back while we devour one of our best seated senators for something that is not illegal, that has been apologized for, and which the apology has been accepted. Oh, and by the way.. it only helps to equate Al Franken with Rob Moore, which is a ghastly comparison for Democrats.

Al Franken's accused behavior is inappropriate but not termination worthy. THAT should be the line that Dems repeat over and over in mass... just like the Republicans do. Instead, half of the Democrats are calling for him to resign. The other half don't want to mention him. We should be able to support the #MeToo movement while keeping this whole thing in context. All offenses are not equal, and a proportional response is the best response.

This is why Democrats are weak. We are so afraid to fight for our own side. We mistake imperfect friends with diehard enemies. Stuff like this is why we lose.

 

[Sithborg]

And what about Conyers, who has a larger history of public service than Franken?

Do we take the same tact as Pelosi this morning?