The Election Night Thread - Part 2

[chaseter]

Don't build that racist wall...but they won't live there because it's dirty and smells apparently since a total of 0 graciously offered to immigrate there.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Canada has deadly bears, though..

So does the US.

 

[Alex Murphy]

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Don't build that racist wall...but they won't live there because it's dirty and smells apparently since a total of 0 graciously offered to immigrate there.

So if someone welcomes Cuban refugees, they should be willing to move to Cuba?

 

[Alex Murphy]

Women and minorities who voted against Donald Trump may have trouble deciding what's more troubling:

Is it the president-elect's campaign promises, which include mass deportations and the banning of Muslims from entering the country due to their religious beliefs, or the culture that enabled a man who's been embraced by the KKK and white nationalist movements to ascend to the highest office in the land?

Whatever the case, there's been a spike in hate crimes and online harassment in the week since Trump was elected president, and while he's not guilty of condoning such abhorrent behavior, many believe Trump's efforts to curb the rising tide of violence have been woefully insufficient.

Michelle Obama Described as "Ape in Heels" By West Virginia Officials

 

[chaseter]

So if someone welcomes Cuban refugees, they should be willing to move to Cuba?

What? I'm talking about these celebs threatening to move to Canada if Trump won. They also said how the wall is racist. BUT, none of them threatened to move to Mexico did they? Or, Cuba as you point out. They want to live in White, Rich, Canada eh? That's racist...

 

[Alex Murphy]

What? I'm talking about these celebs threatening to move to Canada if Trump won. They also said how the wall is racist. BUT, none of them threatened to move to Mexico did they? Or, Cuba as you point out. They want to live in White, Rich, Canada eh? That's racist...

...

 

[terry78]

So does the US.

Only in certain bars in Miami.




Awww, snap!

 

[Legendver2]

what? I'm talking about these celebs threatening to move to canada if trump won. They also said how the wall is racist. But, none of them threatened to move to mexico did they? Or, cuba as you point out. They want to live in white, rich, canada eh? That's racist...

ftfy

 

[Sithborg]

Well, it looks like Trump won MI by 10k votes.

(goes off to hunt the 50k people who did not vote for president)

 

[STARMAN]

I used to think low voter turnout was a recent phenomenon but that doesn't appear to be the case. We've had low percentages many times throughout the centuries.

 

[DeadPresident]

So if someone welcomes Cuban refugees, they should be willing to move to Cuba?

Ironic that if immigration continues unabated immigrants will eventually turn host countries into the dumps they come from, and then people will complain. Entire neighborhoods in France and Belgium are effectively lost zones that may as well be in Baghdad or Aleppo.

Your statement shows the hypocrisy in people wanting to welcome culturally incongruent people but if things go south in their own country they only want to trade up and go to better countries. Like the first world version of people that snubbed Hungary or Slovenia because they want to make it to Germany and England.

 

[Sithborg]

Ironic that if immigration continues unabated immigrants will eventually turn host countries into the dumps they come from, and then people will complain. Entire neighborhoods in France and Belgium are effectively lost zones that may as well be in Baghdad or Aleppo.

Your statement shows the hypocrisy in people wanting to welcome culturally incongruent people but if things go south in their own country they only want to trade up and go to better countries. Like the first world version of people that snubbed Hungary or Slovenia because they want to make it to Germany and England.

Yep, because this 250 years of immigration has resulted in the US becoming a war torn, third world country.

I think this is just something that is unique to the US. More people here are willing to allow culture to change and adapt, than try to remain this constant thing.

 

[DeadPresident]

Yep, because this 250 years of immigration has resulted in the US becoming a war torn, third world country.

I think this is just something that is unique to the US. More people here are willing to allow culture to change and adapt, than try to remain this constant thing.

I'm not saying it results in absolute collapse, but unchecked immigration will result in the cultural norms of a country changing. I know this is an uncomfortable thing for most people to acknowledge but there clearly are cultures more and less predisposed to prosperity than others. There's a reason the majority of South America, Asia and Africa are intolerable ****holes, and if the people from those regions move to prosperous countries and don't adapt culturally it shouldn't require a genius to predict that the same cultural norms that keep those places dumps will eventually take hold wherever people move. A country like the USA doesn't innately possess a capacity for prosperity, its people perpetuate it. The less people exhibiting those values, the less prosperity it generates.

That said, I'll also admit that many immigrants adopt the USA's culture of liberty and self-driven industry but I think many do not. While the USA hasn't become a war torn, third world country it has slipped from being the zenith of civilization to just being a decent country to live. As unpleasant as it might be people may need to consider whether the culture that got the USA to the top has been diluted sufficiently to stop its previously meteoric progress. Make no mistake, that's as much the fault of the neo-natives as it may or may not be to immigration.

In all socio-economic metrics such the GINI coefficient, the World Happiness Report, and the HDI the USA is at the bottom of the best countries in the world. It will continue to slip unless it addresses the socioeconomic issues that are causing its decline. 250 years is a pretty brief flash in the pan for a dominant civilization.

 

[Sithborg]

I can assure, it isn't the "foreigners" that are causing any decline.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Results of past 100 years of presidential elections spreadsheet (26 elections):


(click image to enlarge)

Out of 26 elections - closest 5 in electoral vote:
1) 2000 | G. W. Bush (R) vs. Gore (D) | +1.0R
2) 1916 | Wilson (D) vs. Hughes (R) | +4.4D
3) 2004 | G. W. Bush (R) vs. Kerry (D) | +6.5R
4) 1976 | Carter (D) vs. Ford (R) | +10.6D
5) 2016* | Trump (R) vs. H. Clinton (D) | + 13.8R
* 2016 results not final

Out of 26 elections - closest 5 in popular vote:
1) 1960 | Kennedy (D) vs. Nixon (R) | +0.17D
2) 2000 | Gore (D) vs. G. W. Bush (R) | +0.51D
3) 1968 | Nixon (R) vs. Humphrey (D) | +0.70R
4) 2016* | H. Clinton (D) vs. Trump (R) | +1.86D
5) 1976 | Carter (D) vs. Ford (R) | +2.07D
* 2016 results not final

 

[SV Fan]

4) 2016* | H. Clinton (D) vs. Trump (R) | +1.63D*
5) 1976 | Carter (D) vs. Ford (R) | +2.07D
* lost the election in the electoral college / 2016 results not final

For the sake of argument it's now up to 2.2M and likely will break 2.5M when all is said and done

 

[Kelly]

I'm not saying it results in absolute collapse, but unchecked immigration will result in the cultural norms of a country changing. I know this is an uncomfortable thing for most people to acknowledge but there clearly are cultures more and less predisposed to prosperity than others. There's a reason the majority of South America, Asia and Africa are intolerable ****holes, and if the people from those regions move to prosperous countries and don't adapt culturally it shouldn't require a genius to predict that the same cultural norms that keep those places dumps will eventually take hold wherever people move. A country like the USA doesn't innately possess a capacity for prosperity, its people perpetuate it. The less people exhibiting those values, the less prosperity it generates.

That said, I'll also admit that many immigrants adopt the USA's culture of liberty and self-driven industry but I think many do not. While the USA hasn't become a war torn, third world country it has slipped from being the zenith of civilization to just being a decent country to live. As unpleasant as it might be people may need to consider whether the culture that got the USA to the top has been diluted sufficiently to stop its previously meteoric progress. Make no mistake, that's as much the fault of the neo-natives as it may or may not be to immigration.

In all socio-economic metrics such the GINI coefficient, the World Happiness Report, and the HDI the USA is at the bottom of the best countries in the world. It will continue to slip unless it addresses the socioeconomic issues that are causing its decline. 250 years is a pretty brief flash in the pan for a dominant civilization.

So, what exactly is your argument? I think I see something in there that looks like immigration quotas? maybe? socio-economic immigration quotas? maybe? Not sure where you are going?

 

[Kyle]

Immigrants aren't the problem since one doesn't define all. Plus if we're labeling a problem to one defines all it would be all those who are xenophobic as well, let's depart xenophobes in a heartbeat as well if that's where you're going because they aren't living by the motto of this country that's for sure.

So what is the problem? Not a group. A social consciousness. People. Humanity. How does that get solved? Stop making it so people, as a whole all over the world, have to feel like they have to give into their worst instincts to survive. Help each other on a country and world basis. There would be less immigrants if many didn't feel like they had to escape their home world. Fact.

That's just scapegoating, easy answers. But easy answers have this funny thing in that they never work.

This isn't a United States problem going on. This is a world problem. Every country right now is going through this exact same thing, which says - this has absolutely nothing to do with the USA. It's much more than that when you have this going on around the world.

Solution - people have to start working towards the future Gene Roddenberry foresaw. All of us working together. As humans. All these divides are going to do is make this problem we're seeing now on multiple fronts get worse. Every country looking to kick everyone out and become isolationists is looking the other way while the bomb is going off and they're in the blast zone still. It has to be a permanent fix with how foreign relations are handled around the world, there is no such thing as a bandaid here - all that's going to do is have this struggle between people continue to inflate. Looking the other way, solves nothing.

But, right now it looks like the only solution is a UFO arriving cause that would wake people up very fast.

As many refugees are realizing with Trump's election, you might run - but chances are as Lewis Sinclair put "it can happen here."

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

For the sake of argument it's now up to 2.2M and likely will break 2.5M when all is said and done

The number given is the margin between the popular vote leader and the next closest position as specified in the spreadsheet.

H. Clinton's current 47.97% minus Trump's current 46.34% equals a margin of currently 1.63.

But that margin is growing as you've noticed.

 

[DeadPresident]

So, what exactly is your argument? I think I see something in there that looks like immigration quotas? maybe? socio-economic immigration quotas? maybe? Not sure where you are going?

I'm not making a specific claim in terms of policy, whatever approach research would say is the most effective is what I would advocate. A complicating factor is that as a global community we're moving into a post-state, post-borders discourse. Just the idea of trying to control people from moving between nation states has suddenly become the territory of despotic fascists, at least in progressive society's hivemind.

That said, in a world where resources are getting scarcer and scarcer, what is the moral action? Allow those born in prosperous countries to protect what they have? Or insist that they share that prosperity with millions more, resulting in less going around for everyone?

What is quite clear is that globalization is a fraught and conflict prone process, and if it occurs during economic difficulty the rise in people's tribalist nature increases rapidly. I would argue that a government forcing its native population to accept foreign immigrants can only be successful for so long, as we're seeing with the enthusiastic rise of the right wing in the USA and across Europe. T a pragmatic level some kind of isolation may be necessary, but of course that will result in claims of me being a neo-fascist.

 

[Kyle]

Science fiction gave us this answer of what to do. Turning a blind eye only makes an inevitable explosion stronger.

As an immigrant refugee who has lived here my whole life (a la Superman) I know I'm a lot more classically American than xenophobes. Look to the Constitution and Statue of Liberty. THAT'S America.

Plus if you want to be factually accurate everyone who isn't native American, indian, should leave if you want to truly kick out immigrants and give the countries back to those it "rightfully" belongs to. Because every American IS an immigrant.

 

[DeadPresident]

What's classically American though? There seems to be a dissonance about that. America is simultaneously the most racist country, founded on genocide and with a constitution written by a bunch of undercover klan members, according to some, and often according to those same people it's also the vestige of modern democracy and social liberty. It can't quite be both at the same time.

 

[Kyle]

What's classically American though? There seems to be a dissonance about that. America is simultaneously the most racist country, founded on genocide and with a constitution written by a bunch of undercover klan members, according to some, and often according to those same people it's also the vestige of modern democracy and social liberty. It can't quite be both at the same time.

If that's the case you do know you're saying the only people who have upheld the liberty of America is minorities right? Cause you just listed off a series of white man crimes. You basically stated the white man is a group of slave holding disease spreading murderers, which is really a far extreme. If you want to give a country to those guys who uphold that you're going to see the worst country imaginable with wars breaking out more than anywhere else. Those people can't even get along with one another. When you posted that the only thing I could see is Snake Plisken escape from America lol.

As said science fiction gave us this answer. Just people would rather point fingers than point at themselves. What we're seeing is everyone's problem and fault, mine as well.

 

[DeadPresident]

If that's the case you do know you're saying the only people who have upheld the liberty of America is minorities right? Cause you just listed off a series of white man crimes. If you want to give a country to those guys you're going to see the worst country imaginable with wars breaking out more than anywhere else.

Okay so you're saying that only minorities have upheld "the liberty of America", but the white men that created the environment for people to prosper had no part in that? I don't think you quite understood my post. In this election cycle it was often minorities that held those opposing views, that America is a horribly racist country and pride in it is akin to Nazism, but also that it's a hallowed bastion of prosperity that must be protected - it can only really be one.

I'm also a little puzzled as to what a "white man crime" is...?

And also, who is "those guys"? On the score of Wars, America has historically pretty much always been at war with someone or another, we're not going to see that country, that is the country.

If this election has shown me anything it's that people are not concerned about well being as a concept for others, only as a reality for themselves.