The Election Night Thread - Part 2

Dude you're the one who stated that. You stated the country is built off of native american slaughterers who ran off of slaves. As I said that's a really really far extreme you stated. The world has fixed itself since then, clearly. You have many elders even saying that, why it's impossible to see another Hitler.

No, what the election showed is APATHY. We got screwed the same way Britain did. Apathy and arrogance. Less than 25% voted for Trump. If it was more that would say something, when it's less than 25% that's saying something. Britain didn't fall to xenophobic beliefs either, same thing - same narrative.
 
Kyle said:
Dude you're the one who stated that. You stated the country is built off of native american slaughterers who ran off of slaves. As I said that's a really really far extreme you stated.
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No, I said that is a view held by people, although it is true to some degree.

"The world has fixed itself" - The same year Trump is elected...? Has it...really?

No, what the election showed is APATHY. We got screwed the same way Britain did. Apathy and arrogance. Less than 25% voted for Trump.
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As you wish.

You still haven't explained what a "white man crime" is?
 
That's obvious - who came in mass killing native americans, who enslaved people? Precisely. That can't be on other races. Other races have done similarly in other countries, but the ones you noted were committed by white guys alone. Unless the world was a lot more open and it was many races killing native americans like it was going out of style... The KKK and slave holder things, it literally can't be on anyone else in America. Factually what you stated, not what I stated. And as said that's ridiculous extremism by radicals. Radicals on both sides. Both pig headed.

I see myself as an alien. I basically only see humans and lands since being a foreign adoptee, I've never belonged to any one group. I've never got brainwashed by nationalism of any country or blind patriotism nor as viewing people as different. I can only view people, which is why for me I can't see it as a hard thing to see. As said, I'm wishing for a UFO to come cause that would solve things immediately.

Gene Roddenberry and others have stated what the world has to do now. Every country blocking themselves off would never solve anything, I don't even know how a world can function like that when there's so much built off of the countries functioning together already. This isolationism, you'd need a complete overhaul to ever make that work. All it takes is every country working together more. Brightest minds together.
 
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Kyle said:
That's obvious - who came in mass killing native americans, who enslaved people? Precisely. That can't be on other races. Other races have done similarly in other countries, but the ones you noted were committed by white guys alone. Unless the world was a lot more open and it was many races killing native americans like it was going out of style... The KKK and slave holder things, it literally can't be on anyone else in America. Factually what you stated, not what I stated. And as said that's ridiculous extremism by radicals. Radicals on both sides. Both pig headed.
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I have no idea where you're going with this...? Every dominant culture has eliminated "the other" in its rise to the top. Are we just stating obvious things now? :huh:

I see myself as an alien. I basically only see humans and lands since being a foreign adoptee, I've never belonged to any one group. As said, I'm wishing for a UFO to come cause that would solve things immediately.
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The ironic part about this statement is it precisely proves why identity and belonging is so crucial for people's healthy function. The sad part is people only want a place to belong for themselves but not for other identity groups. And then interactions just revert back to who has the power to wield over others.
 
Kyle said:
Gene Roddenberry and others have stated what the world has to do now. Every country blocking themselves off would never solve anything, I don't even know how a world can function like that when there's so much built off of the countries functioning together already. This isolationism, you'd need a complete overhaul to ever make that work. All it takes is every country working together more. Brightest minds together.
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Yes, that sounds nice in theory. Every country working together more, which is going to be realized how exactly in the current climate of geopolitics? You need to start being pragmatic, being idealistic will only leave you disappointed and jaded.

Forcing cultural proximity? Let's see how that works out. Theoretical naïveté is unlikely to yield positive results.
 
Yes, we are. You are the one that went extreme. All I did was point out that you were going extreme with saying the country was a group of native american slaughtering klan members.

Identity as a human race. Do you really honestly expect any country to revert to pure blood America? That's never going to happen. It's partly fault with technicalities as well. You do know that minorities are the majority now right? That there's very, very few pure blood white race people anymore? You can fit all of those people in Rhode Island and still have lots of room left. Especially America.

You're the one saying have countries become one. Not me. What I'm saying is that the countries able to work to make everywhere safe. Sorry to burst your bubble, people aren't running in from Mexico because they love America so much. It's land. They're running over because they don't think they have any other choice for survival. The countries that are able to work together to protect others, that eliminates people running away.

One of the worst wars in history exploded because the countries in power looked at Germany and shrugged. Apathy about German affairs gave rise to Hitler. Apathy about Islamic affairs gave rise to terrorism hitting within America. There is no escaping this. History has taught us - you look away and when it hits, it hits freaking BIG. There is no bandaid, that's temporary.

Plus, Britain and America the two places that fell to fascism - in one most didn't vote and in the other most voted against Trump or didn't vote, Trump isn't a beloved President - most voted against him. If you want to look at math, population and stats most people didn't align with Trump. That's the world I'm viewing things through - you know, the one representative of the people/population rather than how states are divided by land.
 
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Kyle said:
Yes, we are. You are the one that went extreme. All I did was point out that you were going extreme with saying the country was a group of native american slaughtering klan members.
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This is the second time you've said it and I corrected you the first time, let me try again:

No, I said that is a view held by people, although it is true to some degree.
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In this election cycle it was often minorities that held those opposing views, that America is a horribly racist country and pride in it is akin to Nazism, but also that it's a hallowed bastion of prosperity that must be protected - it can only really be one.
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I was communicating views people appear to be holding in terms of their beliefs and statements in regard to America as a country, not what I thought was the truth.

Identity as a human race. Do you really honestly expect any country to revert to pure blood America? That's never going to happen. It's partly fault with technicalities as well. You do know that minorities are the majority now right? That there's very, very few pure blood white race people anymore? You can fit all of those people in Rhode Island and still have lots of room left.

You're the one saying have countries become one. Not me. What I'm saying is that the countries able to work to make everywhere safe. Sorry to burst your bubble, people aren't running in from Mexico because they love America so much. It's land. They're running over because they don't think they have any other choice for survival. The countries that are able to work together to protect others, that eliminates people running away.

One of the worst wars in history exploded because the countries in power looked at Germany and shrugged. Apathy gave rise to Hitler.
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What? What is "countries become one" - where did I use those words? If you mean my statement about the post-borders, post-state thing that's in regard to people's mobility, not some weird legislated reality. I'm talking about in practice, that's what the world is moving towards - this notion that nobody should be impeded in any way.

You seem to be attributing questions you have in your own head to my statements? I didn't say anything about "pure blood America", whatever that is. You seem to be reading inferences into my posts that I'm not explicitly making. You're busy explaining some weird fairytale where some utopian solution comes to fruition despite all human history suggesting it's a complete fairytale. I have no idea where you're going with this, so I'm going to cut my participation short.

Just to be clear; the point I'm aiming at: Identity politics is rife; forcing different identity groups to "get along" won't work; the solution needs to take human nature and a need for similarity into account.
 
If you're saying a country that is as against rising population as it is against fascism then we agree. If you're saying power to the fascists? Then yeah we definitely disagree. I've seen where that line of thinking can lead to... In one land one potential ruler sees it not as immigration but as keeping minorities within a certain area to a percentage (Patricia something)

To me it sounded like you were pro xenophobes and anti immigrants as a group. Just what it sounded like. You showing bias towards one group.

Like how you're conveniently not seeing the facts behind Trump getting less than 25% of the American vote. Plus some of those are "lesser of two evils". so what that factually shows is that the majority isn't for him or his beliefs. If we're talking majority of the American people speaking.

ADDING: It is clear cut xenophobia to believe that people in third world countries are intrinsically different instead of acting in correlation to the government structure they have. If it's a measure of fear, in a worldwide poll not publicized in the US it was noted that most countries fear US.

So what can be done middle grounds? That actually makes sense instead of "kick them out, they're not like us!"

1) Make immigration laws stricter, impose a more detailed background. Also make the process faster. There should be a much stronger and expansive immigration program. More detailed, faster (if someone is a refugee escaping, they'll go the illegal route if there is no other option available to them - a lot break the law due to the time it takes). With so many people having job struggles, I honestly don't see why there can't be a stronger immigration bureau than we have today.

2) Consequences for hate crimes and harassment should be strongly enforced. I'm an extreme here, I think teens should be charged with misdemeanors for bullying. Root out the problem early on. This would reduce the number of teen suicides and teen shooters. It's sick that we live in a world where three teen girls admit to harassing a girl into committing suicide and they get off free. These teens grow up. All across the board more focus needs to be put here. They can voice dissent, but harassing and criminal acts? GONE.

3) Countries need to be in communication more. This isn't necessarily sharing resources as much as it is scientists and top figures working together on ways to make our world a better place and coming up with ways to improve way of life for third world countries. This is basically already the prime reason for NATO, working together. But across the board we need to start working together more. That's not nationalism, one can cheer on the US without tossing a third world country into a pit.

4) There needs to be laws or other things in place that takes away it being lucrative to send jobs overseas for companies. This will help to keep the companies in the states. Or make it more lucrative for companies to keep these jobs in the states. I don't know. But there are other measures that could be put in place to keep those jobs here.

In short, there are a lot of things to do that aren't favoring one group over the other. Stronger immigration laws, stronger hate crime laws, countries working together more (in zero sum type of humanitarian projects), and making it more lucrative to keep jobs here or enforce more restrictions for taking jobs overseas.
 
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Latest numbers from the vote counting: previous post

Electoral Vote (projected, not final)
Trump (R) - 306
Clinton (D) - 232

Popular Vote (not final counts, recounts may be pending as well)
Clinton (D) - 65,199,961 (48.02%) +1.86
Trump (R) - 62,673,215 (46.16%)
Johnson (L) - 4,459,366 (3.28%)
Stein (G) - 1,431,705 (1.05%)
other - 1,999,407 (1.49%)

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?f=1&off=0&year=2016
 
You know, having the MI Attorney General try to stop a recount makes me feel that it really should be done.
 
Clinton is currently down

~47,000 votes in Pennsylvania (20 EV)
~11,000 votes in Michigan (16 EV)
~22,000 votes in Wisconsin (10 EV)

A swing of just around 80,000 votes across these three states would have Clinton projected to win the electoral college (278-260). These are states that the Democratic presidential ticket usually won in modern times.
 
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MagnarTheGreat said:
Clinton is currently down

~47,000 votes in Pennsylvania (20 EV)
~11,000 votes in Michigan (16 EV)
~22,000 votes in Wisconsin (10 EV)

A swing of just around 80,000 votes across these three states would have Clinton projected to win the electoral college (278-260). These are states that the Democratic presidential ticket usually won in modern times.
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Which she would have had if dumbass third party voters had cared more about stopping Trump and less about their own "purity". And if lazy asshats had voted instead of staying home.
 
Yup. Clinton lost by 11000 votes in MI. The number of people who voted but who did not vote for a presidential candidate increased by 50000 this year.

grumble, grumble, grumble
 
I hoped the recount would actually do something but looks like it gets to do **** all.

Whelp, to quote 90% of the people complaining about Trump winning, "He's not my president!"

I'm happy to be Canadian despite the effects his BS will be doing to my home as well.
 
It's been one month since the election.

Electoral Vote (projected, not final)
Trump (R) - 306
Clinton (D) - 232

Popular Vote (vote counts not final)
Clinton (D) - 65,534,281 (48.05%) +1.96
Trump (R) - 62,855,393 (46.09%)
Johnson (L) - 4,479,165 (3.28%)
Stein (G) - 1,450,760 (1.06%)
other - 2,061,158 (1.52%)
total - 136,380,757

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?f=1&off=0&year=2016

8mrpjlf.png

(click to enlarge)
 
The Washington Post - Secret CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump win White House

The CIA has concluded in a secret assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency, rather than just to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system, according to officials briefed on the matter.

Intelligence agencies have identified individuals with connections to the Russian government who provided WikiLeaks with thousands of hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee and others, including Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, according to U.S. officials. Those officials described the individuals as actors known to the intelligence community and part of a wider Russian operation to boost Trump and hurt Clinton’s chances.

“It is the assessment of the intelligence community that Russia’s goal here was to favor one candidate over the other, to help Trump get elected,” said a senior U.S. official briefed on an intelligence presentation made to U.S. senators. “That’s the consensus view.”
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html
 
Clinton currently just went past Carter's popular vote margin of lead from 1976 that accompanied his slim electoral college victory.

Electoral Vote (projected, not final; electors meet December 19)
Trump (R) - 306
Clinton (D) - 232

Popular Vote (vote counts not final)
Clinton (D) - 65,736,140 (48.08%) +2.08
Trump (R) - 62,895,938 (46.00%)
Johnson (L) - 4,482,277 (3.28%)
Stein (G) - 1,453,872 (1.06%)
other - 2,167,918 (1.58%)
total - 136,736,145

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?f=1&off=0&year=2016
 
0OqNwQy.png

(click to enlarge)

Electoral Vote (electors met on December 19)
D. Trump (R): 304
H. Clinton (D): 227
C. Powell: 3
B. Sanders: 1
J. Kasich: 1
R. Paul: 1
Faith Spotted Eagle: 1

https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sport...oral-college-vote-few-electors-011544380.html

Popular Vote
Clinton (D) - 65,844,610 (48.06%) +2.09
Trump (R) - 62,979,636 (45.97%)
Johnson (L) - 4,488,912 (3.28%)
Stein (G) - 1,457,038 (1.06%)
other - 2,242,348 (1.63%)
total - 137,012,544

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?f=1&off=0&year=2016
 
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That guy that played Uncle Ben in TASM and those other actors did implore the electors to vote with their conscience.
 
Two years ago . . .

I went to bed the night before believing without a doubt that Clinton was going to win, as I had thought all day. I woke up on 11/09/16, and it turns out that me from 24 hours ago was wrong. Real wrong. I got to work and remember two reactions--one was from a die-hard Republican who ecstatically said, "Can you believe it??? He won!!" The other was from a crestfallen hipster who told his co-worker, "This is literally the worst day ever."

I would later scroll through the Hype Election night thread and watch the gradual change in the thread's tone as the night wore on.

Bill Maher had asked well before the election on his panel which Republican candidate stood the best chance of winning the general election, and when Ann Coulter said Trump, the audience laughed at her and the other panelists looked at her like she was crazy. Between that and Obama's "mic drop" moment on Kimmel saying that while Trump may have tweeted that Obama would go down as the worst President in history, at least he would be a President, 2016 shows that you can't take anything that the politicians and talking heads on TV (and sometimes even the polls--or, more accurately, how the polls are reported) give to you as prophecy.

If you doubt me, hey, go on YouTube and watch a compilation video of the "professional political class" insisting that Trump wouldn't win--that he couldn't win. :shrug:
 
KRYPTON INC. said:
Your point?


We'll wait for it...
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I would think it would be obvious in the last couple of sentences in my post. I could shuffle a few words around, maybe crack open a thesaurus and swap out a few words, but I would really just be restating it again.

So, read it again. If you can't figure it out, you're going to be waiting for a long time. :up:
 
Oh wow, people were wrong. That was totally worth bumping a 2 year old dead topic to point that out.
 
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