🇺🇸 Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 3

[DJ Kornphlake]

 

[Snow Queen]

A good thread that also brings up my #1 concern over the next while. Whipping up fears about immigration is pretty successful at getting far right leaders support, and we're looking at a fraction of the immigration that will have to happen because people will not be able to survive in parts of the Earth that were once livable.

The Democratic party at the moment sure comes off like the big corporations that are making climate change happen at the speed it is today, "eh, next quarter looks fine, let's not worry about it too much. None of our factories are underwater yet."

 

[Lily Adler]

Should Franken be forgiven?

 

[Dr. Evil]

Not sure why Jason Sudekis didn't come back to play Biden.

 

[Lily Adler]

This is beyond ridiculous.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

This is beyond ridiculous.

Eh... Without the support of moderates and older "Boomer" Dems impeachment wouldn't even be possible at this point because they wouldn't have the numbers.

Pelosi's initial response to the "mother****er" line was pretty tepid. Tlaib as far as I know didn't receive any censure from House Dems.

And it's disingenuous for TYT to act as if it's ONLY younger Progressives in the House that felt the way Tlaib does... Those other House members just are, for a wide variety of reason, not the types to say "impeach the mother****er" for public consumption. And I get it... Tlaib was flush with victory and the possibility of being a step closer to, well, impeachment.

Surprise, surprise though, it turns out the process of government and policy making, especially with a matter of such importance and fraught with red hot political and legal consequences as the House impeaching a sitting president is more complex than just wishing it so and being vocal about it. I mean, it's almost as though Pelosi as the de facto national leader of the Democratic Party and Speaker of the House has responsibilities beyond just doing whatever the hardcore Progressives, who in no way make up the majority of the party (Also true of the electorate, oddly enough...) wish at any given moment. And Cenk... I think on a daily basis "impeach this mother****er". Doesn't make me a "leader". Tlaib saying that, again something I am betting the majority of House Dems ALREADY think, wasn't the magic moment that brought us to today.


When or if Trump gets impeached I will bet that the outcome will have a lot more to do with the skill and institutional prowess of Pelosi's older, moderate establishment Dems being able to get all the ducks in a row procedurally and get more than just Progressive Dems in safe seats in San Francisco or Manhattan to get on board the impeachment train.

Also... This kinda feels JUST like that superfluous CNN segment they are criticising. I mean... online or not JUST like cable news they pump out content for consumption, and... Really? THIS is worth all their, in my opinion, rather forced outrage?

People talk about MSNBC as being the opposite number of FOX news but... No. It's cute/disappointing when MSNBC tries to be like that but they aren't even close. No, when I imagine a "FOX for the Left" (And... That's not a good thing, let us remember. It's not GOOD to be just like your always angry, unreasonable, self righteous, ideologically blinded and constantly policing of any deviation from the politics and policy goals of the party as insufficiently impure opponents. Just because the folks doing that are NOT Right Wingers doesn't turn vice into virtue...) I automatically think of TYT and similar entities.

 

[DeadPresident]

Gotta get that critique of white people being unnecessarily white in there just to keep giving the raving rednecks legitimate cause to keep being racist and conspiratorial

 

[Lily Adler]

I think Saager just watched a fluff piece and is now complaining about it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think Saager just watched a fluff piece and is now complaining about it.

Saager tries to act reasonable on the show, but his twitter persona comes through every now and then, making it clear that he is big on trolling the left like a lot of *******s on the right.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Eh... Without the support of moderates and older "Boomer" Dems impeachment wouldn't even be possible at this point because they wouldn't have the numbers.

Pelosi's initial response to the "mother****er" line was pretty tepid. Tlaib as far as I know didn't receive any censure from House Dems.

And it's disingenuous for TYT to act as if it's ONLY younger Progressives in the House that felt the way Tlaib does... Those other House members just are, for a wide variety of reason, not the types to say "impeach the mother****er" for public consumption. And I get it... Tlaib was flush with victory and the possibility of being a step closer to, well, impeachment.

Surprise, surprise though, it turns out the process of government and policy making, especially with a matter of such importance and fraught with red hot political and legal consequences as the House impeaching a sitting president is more complex than just wishing it so and being vocal about it. I mean, it's almost as though Pelosi as the de facto national leader of the Democratic Party and Speaker of the House has responsibilities beyond just doing whatever the hardcore Progressives, who in no way make up the majority of the party (Also true of the electorate, oddly enough...) wish at any given moment. And Cenk... I think on a daily basis "impeach this mother****er". Doesn't make me a "leader". Tlaib saying that, again something I am betting the majority of House Dems ALREADY think, wasn't the magic moment that brought us to today.


When or if Trump gets impeached I will bet that the outcome will have a lot more to do with the skill and institutional prowess of Pelosi's older, moderate establishment Dems being able to get all the ducks in a row procedurally and get more than just Progressive Dems in safe seats in San Francisco or Manhattan to get on board the impeachment train.

Also... This kinda feels JUST like that superfluous CNN segment they are criticising. I mean... online or not JUST like cable news they pump out content for consumption, and... Really? THIS is worth all their, in my opinion, rather forced outrage?

People talk about MSNBC as being the opposite number of FOX news but... No. It's cute/disappointing when MSNBC tries to be like that but they aren't even close. No, when I imagine a "FOX for the Left" (And... That's not a good thing, let us remember. It's not GOOD to be just like your always angry, unreasonable, self righteous, ideologically blinded and constantly policing of any deviation from the politics and policy goals of the party as insufficiently impure opponents. Just because the folks doing that are NOT Right Wingers doesn't turn vice into virtue...) I automatically think of TYT and similar entities.

Nah. One of the big issues with Pelosi is how badly she squanders actual Democratic enthusiasm. She has the older Dems already. Having younger voters excited? That is something the establishment is terrible at and to me this is a good example of this. She's not a great strategist. She is someone who is comfortable listening to her big ticket donors.

As to Cenk. He is an ass who is occasionally right. And you will know this, because he will tell you again and again when he got something right.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Should Franken be forgiven?

Man, **** Al Franken and **** Conan to. This rehabilitation tour is an embarrassment. It's so overtly one sided, there isn't even an attempt to show the other side.

 

[Lily Adler]

Man, **** Al Franken and **** Conan to. This rehabilitation tour is an embarrassment. It's so overtly one sided, there isn't even an attempt to show the other side.

I had completely forgotten about Al Franken until this interview. I remember him a little when Gillibrand was campaigning, but that was it. I don't even remember his personal politics before the scandal.

 

[Schlosser85]

I'll chuck in my random $.02 and say I don't care about Tlaib saying "impeach the mother****er" and I don't think anybody else does either except people just looking for anything to use against a newly-elected Muslim Congresswoman, and I also don't think Al Franken should have resigned in the first place.

 

[Lily Adler]

Saager tries to act reasonable on the show, but his twitter persona comes through every now and then, making it clear that he is big on trolling the left like a lot of *******s on the right.

I feel so bad right now cause I misspelled his name when it was in the freaking title.

 

[Schlosser85]

Bernie Sanders is in the hospital getting two stents put in his heart.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I feel so bad right now cause I misspelled his name when it was in the freaking title.

I can blame you for my misspelling then.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Bernie Sanders is in the hospital getting two stents put in his heart.

Planned?

 

[Lily Adler]

Bernie Sanders is in the hospital getting two stents put in his heart.

Oh Bernie no. Dammit God don't take him yet.

Sorry I got a little dramatic there.

 

[Schlosser85]

Planned?

Doesn't sound like it, he started having chest pain on the campaign trail.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Doesn't sound like it, he started having chest pain on the campaign trail.

Yeah, I was just reading that. Something like this almost feels like Hillary's dehydration moment from 2016. It might not be anything in the long run, but MSNBC and CNN are going to have a field day with this.

 

[Schlosser85]

Yeah, I was just reading that. Something like this almost feels like Hillary's dehydration moment from 2016. It might not be anything in the long run, but MSNBC and CNN are going to have a field day with this.

And maybe Trump on Twitter. "Guess Low Energy Bernie's heart couldn't take the thought of running against Your Favorite President (me!). Sad!"

 

[Lily Adler]

Yeah, I was just reading that. Something like this almost feels like Hillary's dehydration moment from 2016. It might not be anything in the long run, but MSNBC and CNN are going to have a field day with this.

I can already see them saying he's too old and needs to drop out. Dammit this county needs him in the White House, Senate, or in the cabinet.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And maybe Trump on Twitter. "Guess Low Energy Bernie's heart couldn't take the thought of running against Your Favorite President (me!). Sad!"

Yep. I just hope he is okay, but I can't lie. Once I read that he seems to be in decent shape, this being read meat for his opponents popped in my mind really fast.

 

[Lily Adler]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Nah. One of the big issues with Pelosi is how badly she squanders actual Democratic enthusiasm. She has the older Dems already. Having younger voters excited? That is something the establishment is terrible at and to me this is a good example of this. She's not a great strategist. She is someone who is comfortable listening to her big ticket donors.

As to Cenk. He is an ass who is occasionally right. And you will know this, because he will tell you again and again when he got something right.

That doesn't make any sense though.


It's actually the opposite. In the House the younger Progressives are the ones almost unanimously on board for impeachment, many from districts where they don't have to worry about any kind of Republican challenger. "Red state" Dems, those that won elections by close margins etc. those are the ones that NEED to be convinced and as we are seeing Pelosi is doing just that.

If this hinged on just the AOC types in congress, well, there aren't enough of them. It's math. And being dismissive and resentful of the rest of the party is not likely to make people come to your side.

This is all politically and legally fraught. In this case a seasoned pol is what's needed to wrangle the eternal herd of cats that has always been the modern Democratic Party using every last trick in the book to accomplish a historic and indeed risky goal.

One can make any number of arguments about the need to excite voters and for younger leadership. Fine. I agree and I was actually disappointed Pelosi was made Speaker. But what is needed now by quite a bit is something "establisment" Dems have in spade, which is institutional prowess and a real grasp of the reality of the political process.

If Progressives think their purity of heart and passion alone is what will either bring Trump down via impeachment and removal or barring that by voting him out... Well I hope that sense of moral purity keeps them warm for the next term of the Trump administration.