Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 3

[Handsome Rob]

I wasn't crazy about Hillary since she is a center-right Thatcherite, but I voted for her because a vote for someone who has no shot is a wasted vote and a waste of time.

To you.

Way to not get what I was saying.

All you said was, "I didn't vote for him, but I will defend every single thing he does."

Let's look at the first part. What more is there to get than you essentially repeating my statement that I didn't vote for him?

And the second. "But I will defend every single thing he does." Except I haven't done that. Which I pointed out.

So please, explain to me what more there was to "get" out of your statement.

 

[chaseter]

Cherokee Nation responds to Senator Warren’s DNA test

lol

 

[Ouch]

To you.




All you said was, "I didn't vote for him, but I will defend every single thing he does."

Let's look at the first part. What more is there to get than you essentially repeating my statement that I didn't vote for him?

And the second. "But I will defend every single thing he does." Except I haven't done that. Which I pointed out.

So please, explain to me what more there was to "get" out of your statement.

lol.

 

[Handsome Rob]

lol.

Awwww . . . you can't just say that someone missed something or that something went over his or her head and then "lol" when called out to explain it. Because, it comes across as you having nothing of substance to back your statement up. Come on, man . . . what profound meaning was threaded throughout your statement that so easily eluded my grasp?

I'm here, man. Enlighten me!

 

[MaceB]

Cherokee Nation responds to Senator Warren’s DNA test

lol

I have to say.. anyone who has been around this sort of thing should really know that DNA is not how Natives decide tribal affiliation. My girlfriend's mom tried like heck to get her ID number and certification, because her father had one.. but it wasn't easy. When I saw this, this morning.. it did strike me that this would be seen as a naive, Anglo perspective on the issue.

Not sure exactly what Elizabeth Warren should have done, but yeah.. it is a bit 'foot in mouth.'

 

[Aximili86]

Haha! So, basically "doesn't matter if the DNA test says she's not actually native American in any substantial sense. So long as you identify as it, you can claim it, even when you're less so biologically than the average American."

In that case, I'm Korean. Don't you dare tell me I'm not, there's a tiny fragment of that on my own ancestry list. In the 0.00000s somewhere.

Which is, of course, a ridiculous claim.

"2018", sums this whole thing up. We've gone nuts. She's Euro-white as it gets, let's not encourage this Dolezal crap. The fact she's taking arrows from both sides over this pretty much lays it out clear as day, she's full of crap.


I Won’t Support An Elizabeth Warren Presidency While She Appropriates My Identity | HuffPost


EDIT: Gotta love the multiple newspaper corrections, too. "She's 1/32." - 'Wait, 1/64." - "Oh, actually, it's 1/1000th, we learned math sometime between publishing the original story and now."

 

[Erzengel]

“Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong,” said Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. “It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven.”

“No native tribe acknowledges DNA testing as a source for citizenship or even claim to native heritage,” said Rebecca Nagle, an indigenous writer, organizer and citizen of the Cherokee Nation.

And from the Cherokee website for citizenship.

Cherokee Nation citizenship law is set by tribal law. There is no minimum blood quantum required for citizenship. Tribal citizenship requires that you have at least one direct ancestor listed on the Dawes Final Rolls, a federal census of those living in the Cherokee Nation that was used to allot Cherokee land to individual citizens in preparation for Oklahoma statehood in 1907.

To be eligible for Cherokee Nation tribal citizenship, you must be able to provide documents that connect you to a direct ancestor listed on one of the Dawes Final Rolls of Citizens of the Cherokee Nation. To be eligible for a federal Certificate Degree of Indian Blood, you must demonstrate through documentation that you descend directly from a person listed on the Dawes’ “by Blood” rolls. This group of census rolls were taken between 1899-1906 of Citizens and Freedmen residing in Indian Territory (now northeastern Oklahoma). If your ancestor did not live in this geographical area during that time period, they will not be listed on the Dawes Rolls.

 

[Schlosser85]

I have a Cherokee great-great-grandmother on my dad's side. I'd never claim to be "Native American" because that'd be ridiculous when I'm obviously as white as they come (predominantly German).

And considering I'm more "Native American" than Warren is, yea she should just shut up about it.

 

[MaceB]

Just to add a little nuance, she never claimed to be Native American. She never marked Native American on a box to get any advantages. Her Universities wanted to know the heredity of their staff in order to promote their diversity. They asked her what her family history was, and she said she was part Native American. Which she apparently is.

And for that terrible, terrible sin... she was lambasted as a liar and a joke on public TV and online, again and again by the President of the United States. She doesn't deserve an apology for that? Really?

She told her Universities that she was part Native American, and she is. Did she bring it up in the media? Nope... that was her opposition.

 

[Schlosser85]

Warren inflating her minuscule drop of Native American heritage, and Trump calling her "Pocahontas" left and right, which is offensive to far more people than Warren, can both be eyeroll-worthy.

 

[Erzengel]

She's like a tenth of a percent so that's less than 1%.

My AncestryDNA profile originally said that I was <1% of African descent. My mother is half white, and even that I only mention it because I have much fairer skin than most Filipinos, but I don't go around saying that I'm part African.

 

[MaceB]

How did Warren inflate her Native American heritage?

 

[Handsome Rob]

How did Warren inflate her Native American heritage?

She listed herself as a minority in an Association of American Law Schools directory. She did it. Herself. I'd say elevating yourself into minority status (especially when you've identified yourself as white previously) qualifies as inflating.

Like Schloss, I'm 1/16 Cherokee, except on my mom's side. The rest of me is white, and boy can you tell it--blue eyes and everything. If I started listing myself as a minority, would you consider it "inflating my Native American heritage?" I mean, I'm more minority than Warren is according to her own warped standards.

 

[Zarex]

How did Warren inflate her Native American heritage?

According to Snopes, Senator Warren put herself on the Minority Law Teacher list while attending U Penn Law School, was identified as a minority after receiving a 1994 faculty award and at one time was promoted as a Native American faculty member while at Harvard. But subsequent investigations have shown that her extremely light Native American ancestry probably didn't play a role in landing her a job at Harvard.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-native-american/

 

[MaceB]

She listed herself as a minority in an Association of American Law Schools directory. She did it. Herself. I'd say elevating yourself into minority status (especially when you've identified yourself as white previously) qualifies as inflating.

Like Schloss, I'm 1/16 Cherokee, except on my mom's side. The rest of me is white, and boy can you tell it--blue eyes and everything. If I started listing myself as a minority, would you consider it "inflating my Native American heritage?" I mean, I'm more minority than Warren is according to her own warped standards.

If it's not for public office and it's not to claim an advantage, then isn't up to her to decide whether she identifies with Native Americans or not? What gives us the right to tell her that she can't consider herself part, Native American even though she was told that by her family and even though she does have Native American lineage? If my great grandfather was half eskimo... I can't tell my friends that I have Eskimo heritage? At my job at the Salon, I can't put on my company bio that I'm part Eskimo? Why not? I am... in fact.. part Eskimo. Who are you to tell me that I can only claim it after meeting your personal bar of what constitutes 'Eskimo enough?'

 

[Erzengel]

I don't know.

I think she honestly felt this was a "gotcha" moment that she was going to stick it to Trump to, but when the actual Cherokee nation disavows your DNA test, it appears that it didn't go the way she planned it and it seems like a silly hill to try and die for Warren or anyone else.

 

[Zarex]

If it's not for public office and it's not to claim an advantage, then isn't up to her to decide whether she identifies with Native Americans or not? What gives us the right to tell her that she can't consider herself part, Native American even though she was told that by her family and even though she does have Native American lineage? If my great grandfather was half eskimo... I can't tell my friends that I have Eskimo heritage? At my job at the Salon, I can't put on the Salon's website that I'm part Eskimo? Why not? I am... in fact.. part Eskimo. Who are you to tell me that I can only claim it after meeting your personal bar of what constitutes 'Eskimo enough?'

It's still up in the air whether or not Senator Warren claimed to be a Native American in order to gain an advantage in her career path. But even if she didn't, racial appropriation is wrong whether its done by Elizabeth Warren or Rachel Dolezal.

 

[MaceB]

I don't think it was a gotcha moment. I think the President boxed her in. If she wanted to run for President, she had to do this; otherwise, the Pocohontas thing would stick with her forever. Probably still will.

 

[Erzengel]

I don't think it was a gotcha moment. I think the President boxed her in. If she wanted to run for President, she had to do this; otherwise, the Pocohontas thing would stick with her forever. Probably still will.

She recorded the person from the DNA company over speaker phone telling her she had less than 1% Native American ethnicity. Why record that? It was definitely in her mind a "gotcha moment". And it backfired.

 

[MaceB]

It's still up in the air whether or not Senator Warren claimed to be a Native American in order to gain an advantage in her career path. And even if she didn't, racial appropriation is wrong whether its done by Elizabeth Warren or Rachel Dolezal.

Huh? This issue has been around for 6 years. I think we know everything we're gonna know about it, regarding what advantages she took. Many fact checkers have said she didn't claim any advantage. She was already in school.

And again, who are you to tell her that she's not Native American enough to claim that she's part Native American? If it's not to get an advantage, then how is this, in any way, up to anyone but her?

 

[Handsome Rob]

If it's not for public office and it's not to claim an advantage, then isn't up to her to decide whether she identifies with Native Americans or not? What gives us the right to tell her that she can't consider herself part, Native American even though she was told that by her family and even though she does have Native American lineage? If my great grandfather was half eskimo... I can't tell my friends that I have Eskimo heritage? At my job at the Salon, I can't put on my company bio that I'm part Eskimo? Why not? I am... in fact.. part Eskimo. Who are you to tell me that I can only claim it after meeting your personal bar of what constitutes 'Eskimo enough?'

I'm going to start identifying as a minority on the Hype now. Although I'll still have to deal with accusations of male privilege and heterosexual privilege (and probably height privilege whenever that becomes trendy), accusations of white privilege will no longer apply to me.

You're going to defend me on this, right? Because, who is anyone on the Hype to tell me what I can claim?

 

[MaceB]

She recorded the person from the DNA company over speaker phone telling her she had less than 1% Native American ethnicity. Why record that? It was definitely in her mind a "gotcha moment". And it backfired.

... because The President of the United States repeatedly mocked her and called her a liar on this issue? Why not record? I'd be worried that the peace of paper wouldn't be enough. I'd document this one as much as I could. When the President calls you a liar... you dot your I's and cross your T's.

 

[MaceB]

I'm going to start identifying as a minority on the Hype now. Although I'll still have to deal with accusations of male privilege and heterosexual privilege (and probably height privilege whenever that becomes trendy), accusations of white privilege will no longer apply to me.

You're going to defend me on this, right? Because, who is anyone on the Hype to tell me what I can claim?

If you have a minority in your background, and you'd like to tell people that you are part minority... go ahead. It's up to you.

White privilege will still apply to you due to the color of your skin and the majority of your makeup though.

 

[Zarex]

I don't think it was a gotcha moment. I think the President boxed her in. If she wanted to run for President, she had to do this; otherwise, the Pocohontas thing would stick with her forever. Probably still will.

An interesting point of all this is that President Trump WAS able box her in. But Senator Warren can't do the same to Putin's Pet. The liberal democrats are more than willing to eat their own, whether it be Senator Warren, James Gunn or Al Franken, for reasons that would be quickly dismissed if applied to Trump. But 90% of Republicans are going to stick with our garbage president even if he does go through with his threat of putting a bullet in someone's skull in the middle of Times Square. It's admirable that the Dems are clinging to some notion of morality, but it makes it tough to win an election against a party and a president that have none.

 

[Handsome Rob]

If you have a minority in your background, and you'd like to tell people that you are part minority... go ahead. It's up to you.

White privilege will still apply to you due to the color of your skin and the majority of your makeup though.

No, not part minority. Minority. Just like Warren did.