Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC Party

[Tangled Web]

We need a strong third party to keep things interesting. I'm talking about a grounded moderate party. Not some hippy blippy hardcore commie Anarchy party.

 

[Spider-Bite]

the thing is that because of the way republicans drew up party lines a decade ago after coming power, it makes it real hard for the people in power to lose power. Even if the country voted split down the middle 50/50 republicans would come out on top.

to me that is very dictatorship like, and anti-democracy. the people in power using their power to stay in power even when the voters want them out. I'll admit either party would do the same thing. If dems were to gain a huge victory I highly doubt they would rewrite the lines to make it anymore fair. They would just use it to keep themselves in power.

Dems will either take the house, or republicans will keep majority by a couple seats at best. The senate? I suspect that the republicans majority will shrink but stay. Their majority will become razor thin though, so severely that their majority will be insignifigant. Although it's possible that Dems will take it back.

we forget something. even though the country wants dems to win by double digits and have so for over a year, that doesn't change the fact the the republicans have several times as much money raised as the democrats, because the wealthy are trying to buy this election like they always do. When you got that kind of money you obviously can run a better campaign and get more exposure at the last minute, and not only that, but money=power which = the ability to muck up elections.

 

[War Lord]

There is no way to logically apply it to the article you had, unless you strongly dislike democracy. Also, you clearly know little about Hawaii's situation. Explain to me what the result of the price-capping was, and then we'll have something to debate.

I'll let somebody who happens to live in Hawaii explain it to you.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/cc/?id=110007155

What a Gas!
But Hawaii isn't laughing.

BY MALIA ZIMMERMAN
Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

KAUNAKAKAI, Hawaii--Several hundred families on the normally sleepy island of Molokai lined up in their cars for more than a mile on July 28, desperate to buy gasoline before the pumps shut down. There were still two more days before a barge would arrive with a month's supply of gas, and by nightfall the island's only three gas stations would be dry.

Many of Molokai's 6,800 residents are too young to remember Richard Nixon as their president or the gas crises of the early 1970s. But they may soon be seeing more Nixon-era-like lines, gas shortages and even rationing. In a thoroughly misguided attempt to stem the rising price of gas, Hawaii is set to impose Nixon-style price caps on all the islands' pumps. The law, set to take effect Sept. 1, ties the price of gas to the wholesale price of gasoline at three price points on the U.S. mainland.

Charged with the unenviable job of implementing the gas-cap program, Hawaii's Public Utilities Commission says local industry expects the caps to increase prices by an estimated 30 cents a gallon, with costs on Oahu rising from the current price of $2.68 a gallon to more than $3. PUC says industry leaders also expect more shortages (especially in remote areas), the closure of one of two oil refineries, the halting of wholesale marketers' operations, and reduced investment in the state after the caps go into effect. Owners of gas stations on remote neighboring islands say prices will likely soar after Sept. 1, from just over $3 a gallon to more than $4.

Lowell Kalapa, president of the Tax Foundation of Hawaii, says the consumer will see a big jump in price because the markup, applied by retailers or the gas station owners, is not subject to the cap.

The Democrats in control of Hawaii's Legislature admitted back in 2002 when they passed the legislation capping the retail price of gasoline, and again when they revised it in 2004 to cap the wholesale price, that regulatory measures might not lower gas prices when implemented this fall.

So why bring back price controls more than 30 years after Nixon tried them and failed miserably, causing shortages, rationing, inflation and an economic crisis? It's hard to find a reason, other than to retaliate against the big oil companies, namely Chevron, which many Democrats tried to punish unsuccessfully in court.

Made up primarily of liberal Democrats with no economics training, no business background, an open disdain for the free market, and a lust for price caps (except on state taxes), lawmakers say they have to "do something" about the high price of gasoline. Never mind that oil prices have skyrocketed everywhere thanks to increasing demand in the world market and rapid growth in China and India.
Led by Rep. Hermita Morita and Sen. Ron Menor, who delivered lengthy speeches on punishing the "greedy" oil industry, the Democratic majority passed a version of the bill in 2002. Sen. Paul Whalen, much to the horror of his Republican peers, helped introduce the measure.

Brian Barbata, a jobber for Molokai and Lanai, fought against the proposed legislation, telling lawmakers they're just plain wrong about the causes of higher gas prices. "High prices in Hawaii are a myth," he says, "perpetuated by the media to the level of urban legend." Mr. Barbata believes Hawaii's sky-high gas taxes (the highest in the nation) are driving up prices. Maui County, he explains, has the highest taxes in the state at 60 cents a gallon, compared with 29 cents a gallon in Alaska. "Subtract the associated taxes and you will find Hawaii is not out of line at all," Mr. Barbata says.

Despite extensive studies pointing out why caps wouldn't lower prices, the bill was enthusiastically signed into law in 2002 by then-Gov. Benjamin Cayetano, a Democrat who focused much of his energy on bad-mouthing Chevron and the business climate during his 28 years in government. Gov. Cayetano worked years to earn Hawaii the distinction of being the most costly, the most business-unfriendly, and the most taxed state in the union.

Many consumers are pessimistic about the caps, especially those who remember the failed regulatory schemes of the '70s, for example waiting for their assigned day to buy gas based on their license-plate number. Strangely--and to the dismay of many citizens of Hawaii--Gov. Linda Lingle, elected in 2002 as the first Republican governor in 40 years, has refused to use her emergency powers to halt the gas caps.

Gov. Lingle says she's against the gas caps but is required by law to wait until a "crisis" occurs before revoking the cap--she also notes that the Legislature could call a special session to make adjustments. But Republican lawmakers say she can--and should--stop implementation.

Despite dire predictions, Hawaii's Democrats are putting on a happy face. House Speaker Calvin Say recently told the Honolulu Advertiser that despite the possible rise in prices, the gas cap legislation should go forward. "We should give it a chance to see how it goes," he says.

Economist John Rutledge of Rutledge Capital, a resident of Maui, says Hawaii may not experience a crisis immediately, but any major event in the world could affect the market and lead to a shortage and rationing. Mr. Rutledge warns the caps will "knock the economy down," a prediction many experts agree with, including Mr. Kalapa, who says outside investors will steer clear of the islands, and Mr. Barbata, who says many small distributors and businesses will be hurt or, worse, forced to close.

Living in Hawaii often feels like being part of a bad social experiment. If lawmakers truly wanted to reduce gasoline prices, they'd eliminate or drastically reduce state and county gas taxes. Instead, they continue to pass laws like the gas cap that not only will be ineffective, but will hurt Hawaii's consumers and business, and most likely raise the price of gasoline even higher. Put simply, it's hard to hang loose when your state lawmakers are headed toward a major economic wipeout.

 

[maxwell's demon]

find me another 2 or 3 opinions like that and you'll have something.

Anyone can find "a" person who believes something. Real research involves more thorough investigation.

 

[War Lord]

find me another 2 or 3 opinions like that and you'll have something.

Anyone can find "a" person who believes something. Real research involves more thorough investigation.

I don't think you need a more thorough investigation than experiencing it yourself.

BUt if you insist.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9071642/
http://www.clairewolfe.com/wolfesblog/00001595.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/25/national/main794947.shtml

 

[maxwell's demon]

good work, bobbo.

Now see if you can find three povs saying the opposite.

Or bored can, when he gets back.

Spoiler

But really, it'll help you grow as a person if you did it.:heartkisses)

 

[War Lord]

good work, bobbo.

Now see if you can find three povs saying the opposite.

Or bored can, when he gets back.

Spoiler

But really, it'll help you grow as a person if you did it.:heartkisses)

Why would I try and find three points of view that says the opposite? It's stupid to take a position and then immediately set about undercutting your position.

 

[maxwell's demon]

ahhh, young grasshopper. you yet have much to learn. but i will show you the way.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Why would I try and find three points of view that says the opposite? It's stupid to take a position and then immediately set about undercutting your position.

his point is that you probably could

 

[War Lord]

ahhh, young grasshopper. you yet have much to learn. but i will show you the way.

You're welcome to try and undercut my postion, that's the purpose of debating.

 

[maxwell's demon]

actually no, thats not the purpose of debating. Not in my book. Not by a longshot.

 

[Matt]

As far as the Dems being more fisical responsible, that is the biggest joke of the century.

How do they plan to be more responisible with tax payer money while instituting a national health care program. I just wish BOTH PARTIES would realize that MOST THINGS are better left to the private sector.

Yes! PRIVATIZE EVERYTHING! Let a foreign company buy the Ohio freeway as governor candidate Ken Blackwell (R) is suggesting! Then I can pay 6 dollars any time I wish to take a drive in addition to the ridiculous gas prices! Its brilliant!

Also, lets privatize Social Security! Then when an Enron-type debacle happens and hundreds of thousands of Americans are screwed out of their savings the rich can kick back and smoke another Cuban cigar! Awesome!

And health care, thank Jeebus that is already privatized! How else could we be the world's richest country with the most people dying because they just can't afford medical treatment? God Bless America!

While we're at it, lets cut out government aide to assist families pay for heating. If the poor freeze to death there will be more room for the rich! That is what America is all about!

 

[maxwell's demon]

Yes! PRIVATIZE EVERYTHING! Let a foreign company buy the Ohio freeway as governor candidate Ken Blackwell (R) is suggesting! Then I can pay 6 dollars any time I wish to take a drive in addition to the ridiculous gas prices! Its brilliant!

Also, lets privatize Social Security! Then when an Enron-type debacle happens and hundreds of thousands of Americans are screwed out of their savings the rich can kick back and smoke another Cuban cigar! Awesome!

And health care, thank Jeebus that is already privatized! How else could we be the world's richest country with the most people dying because they just can't afford medical treatment? God Bless America!

While we're at it, lets cut out government aide to assist families pay for heating. If the poor freeze to death there will be more room for the rich! That is what America is all about!

its all about minimizing your liablities, Matt. If the government DOES nothing, you can't BLAME it for anything either.

sheesh.

 

[bored]

I'll let somebody who happens to live in Hawaii explain it to you.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/cc/?id=110007155

Thank ya' kindly, but if you read the article, it pretty early on basically supports what I pointed out before about Hawaii. It's an island in the middle of an ocean, and it doesn't have pipelines, or trucks coming in on a regular basis from the nearest refinery. You may remember the article mentioned that they have to wait for oil to be brought in on barges, and those have to cross a great deal of water. Getting enough gasoline to meet demand is, like most generally basic goods that have to be imported by the state of Hawaii, not the easiest task. If that experiment took place someplace continental, however, it'd be a different story.

 

[Darthphere]

F**k the two party system. It's about f**king time a new party to rise in power. One that is competent AND has a plan.

Im running under the Galactic Empire party. Vote for me!

 

[Matt]

Im running under the Galactic Empire party. Vote for me!

HEIL PHERE!

 

[sinewave]

Officials: Former Virginia governor will not run in '08

RICHMOND, Virginia (AP) -- Democrat Mark R. Warner, the former governor of Virginia, has decided not to run for president in 2008, Democratic officials said Thursday.

Warner, 51, scheduled a late morning news conference in Richmond to make the announcement, according to two Democratic officials who refused to be identified because they did not want to upstage Warner's announcement.

Since Warner left the governor's office in January, he has busily toured key states in the Democratic nomination process, particularly New Hampshire and Iowa. His political action committee, Alexandria-based Forward Together, has raised money for Warner's exploratory effort and for other Democratic candidates in this year's midterm elections.

The reason for Warner's announcement was not immediately known.

The centrist governor who had won in a Republican-leaning state was seen as a viable Democratic alternative to perceived front-runner Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York. Warner's decision still leaves a crowded field of potential Democratic candidates.

Warner was elected governor in 2001, defeating Republican Attorney General Mark Earley. The former state Democratic Party chairman, who made a fortune in the infancy of the cellular telephone industry, had never held elected public office.

After a difficult start with a Republican-controlled General Assembly, Warner in 2004 brokered a compromise between Democrats, moderate senators and 17 House Republicans to pass a budget-balancing $1.4 billion tax increase. The tax increase was widely regarded as the signature initiative of his four-tear term.

Warner then returned to private business. Virginia does not allow its governor to seek re-election.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/12/warner.president.ap/index.html

 

[jaguarr]

DISAPPOINTED!!!!!! VERY....DISAPPOINTED!!!!



jag

 

[Armand Z Trip]

Dammit Dammit Dammit **** **** ****

 

[blind_fury]

Right-wing conspiracy.

20 bucks says the republicans paid him 300 million not to run.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Damn

 

[Kenji Li]

DISAPPOINTED!!!!!! VERY....DISAPPOINTED!!!!



jag

Linking=failed.lol

 

[NOFX]

All hope is lost

 

[ShadowBoxing]

F*** Him!

 

[blind_fury]

I feel like Chewie when Han Solo got frozen in carbonite.