Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues II

[8wid]

another thing the US needs to address. The very expensive war on drugs

Incarceration nation

The California State university system may only be accepting transfer students in 2013 and classes are down to 25% at most state community colleges from what I've read. It seems in five years there will be very few ever going to college in California and more going to prison thanks to unemployment and poverty. The good news is that California's own debt crisis hasn't been handled and they can't afford to build as many new prisons, neither can the Federal government with its own out of control deficit. If either bursts a greater economic crisis is inevitable and won't look good by any means.

 

[Vulklin]

Why worry about "financial crisis"?

The whole world is in debt and it will continue to be in debt for centuries to come.

If a country wants to be debt free, that is unwise as all the other countries get jealous and soon put a stop to that. We all in debt together.

Who is the debt owed to? Other countries? Even though almost every country on the planet is in debt, how does that work?

The world is in debt to BANKS. Do you know what the best part of it all is?
That the debt does not actually exist, the whole planet thinks it is in debt when it is not

USA debt is so big it is funny, not million or even billions, but TRILLIONS 15-16-17 TRILLIONS and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger each year

But remember that it is actually an imaginary debt lol

The whole thing is a farce.

The global capitalist system is what people wanted and it is what people got.

No use moaning and worrying about it, just relax and wipe you arse with money instead of putting in the bank or buying a new TV or a house or car

People can discuss economics and statistics and numbers all they like, makes no difference to the great scheme of things does it?

Instead of USA going round the world fighting and fighting and fighting day year after year, why not just say, wait a minute.... why are we fighting these guys on the other side of the world?

Why not just stop fighting, everyone return to USA from around the globe, cancel the debt (if any of the bankers say hey you owe us that, just say erm no we don't)

What would happen? Less war, less violence? debt cancelled and banks shut down?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO no one in the world wants that, lets just carry on as we are.

WAR and DEBT is what the people love go team america

 

[enterthemadness]

You need banks to store your money. Banks loan out money to make money. On top of fees from customers.

Nothing wrong with banks.

It would be unwise for countries to attack others cause they are debt free. Hey jackass country, um, maybe you should manage your money better?

Libertarians as President would get the debt down. Of course Congress needs to be overhauled.

 

[Destructus86]

The California State university system may only be accepting transfer students in 2013 and classes are down to 25% at most state community colleges from what I've read. It seems in five years there will be very few ever going to college in California and more going to prison thanks to unemployment and poverty. The good news is that California's own debt crisis hasn't been handled and they can't afford to build as many new prisons, neither can the Federal government with its own out of control deficit. If either bursts a greater economic crisis is inevitable and won't look good by any means.

The real problem is that we don't want to deal with issues. We just want to shove it under the rug. Or in this case...we don't want to deal with social issues and instead shove people into over-crowded prisons rather than handle the situation. There are so many people in prison that don't NEED to be in prison when there are perfectly acceptable and time-proven methods of rehabilitation for lesser crimes. But we just shove them in prison because it's easier. And now WE are paying for our laziness.

 

[Hobgoblin]

 

[8wid]

The real problem is that we don't want to deal with issues. We just want to shove it under the rug. Or in this case...we don't want to deal with social issues and instead shove people into over-crowded prisons rather than handle the situation. There are so many people in prison that don't NEED to be in prison when there are perfectly acceptable and time-proven methods of rehabilitation for lesser crimes. But we just shove them in prison because it's easier. And now WE are paying for our laziness.

I don't even know why most people think prison is even an effective means of punishment or rehabilitation. Logically locking them away from society for decades makes utterly no sense and only hurts their ability to return to society in the end. Watch the Shawshank Redemption for an example of this. It's a totally dehumanizing institution that does not solve any real problems. There is also a prison-industrial complex that profits from the constant cycle of crime as do corporate prisons with Federal money. As educated and exceptional many claim the American way seems to be then why can't they find a better solution for handling crime then locking someone up in a cell for years and wasting their life away?

 

[wiegeabo]

I don't even know why most people think prison is even an effective means of punishment or rehabilitation. Logically locking them away from society for decades makes utterly no sense and only hurts their ability to return to society in the end. Watch the Shawshank Redemption for an example of this. It's a totally dehumanizing institution that does not solve any real problems. There is also a prison-industrial complex that profits from the constant cycle of crime as do corporate prisons with Federal money. As educated and exceptional many claim the American way seems to be then why can't they find a better solution for handling crime then locking someone up in a cell for years and wasting their life away?

Because people get satisfaction with locking criminals away (deservedly or not). It gives them a (false) sense of security and feeds an almost biblical desire for vengeance, which they think of as justice.

That's why when politicians try to go after prisons, despite all the studies and scholars backing them up, people rise up against them out of fear because they'll "let all the criminals out of prison." Which is exactly the argument the opponents of prison reform use. There's no use talking about money or rehabilitation when "All the criminals will be out running the streets!!!OMFG!!11!!"

 

[8wid]

^The only criminals that most Americans should truly fear are murdersbusers, a and rapists which is typically caused by a mental disorder. All the others can be prevented and dealt with for the most part of the cycle of poverty in America is broken and they can return to society.

I think that literally because America is the most religious Christian nation in the world, they think it's fine to lock away the criminals for many years, even the rest of their life because at least they can still have peace by being forgiven by God. They figure I think that if God can send most of mankind to Hell for all eternity then why can't we lock them up for the rest of their lives? It's a perfect system.

 

[wiegeabo]

I think the Christian nation part of our history is a good deal of it. It's very "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth".

 

[8wid]

I think it's even true that there are more Americans in prison than are in the military. What's needed is a cultural change of attitude towards education and giving it all the needed money it needs and not just what it needs to get kids a high school diploma that's useless and letting them worry about whether they are prepared for college or not and if they can pay for themselves or not.

 

[8wid]

UK economy in double-dip recession

 

[wiegeabo]

I've got to say that I'm seeing some signs of improvement around my area.

Restaurants that were virtually empty during lunch time a couple of months ago are now absolutely packed. People don't splurge for lunches if they don't have jobs.

Mortgage rates and housing prices are actually ticking up slightly for a change (although I suspect the banks are holding onto some inventory to keep prices artificially inflated).

And I just learned today the property tax delinquency rate dropped from over 6% last year to under 1% this year.

 

[8wid]

Growth in the US economy falls back in first quarter

 

[Handsome Rob]

How Retirement Benefits May Sink the States

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303592404577361891800868180.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop#articleTabs%3Darticle

Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel recently offered a stark assessment of the threat to his state's future that is posed by mounting pension and retiree health-care bills for government workers. Unless Illinois enacts reform quickly, he said, the costs of these programs will force taxes so high that, "You won't recruit a business, you won't recruit a family to live here."

I about choked on my coffee and spit it out when I read this yesterday morning. Sure, I know it's true--that high taxes are prohibitive and can prohibit an individual or business from living/operating there if there's another location with a lesser burden to go to. Hey, that's only common sense. But, to hear a Democrat and Obama's former Chief of Staff say it? Well done, Mr. Emanuel!

Caterpillar, the giant Peoria-based maker of heavy construction machinery, made the same point more vividly when it declined in February to locate a new factory in Illinois, specifically citing concern about the state's "business climate and overall fiscal health."

Exactly. Hey, maybe the federal government should pass a law making all states have the same tax and regulatory structures! After all, it's not fair to the people of Illinois to miss out on that tax revenue and those jobs simply because Georgia has been more fiscally responsible than progressivist Illinois.

Just because Illinois has repeatedly made promises it can't keep doesn't mean that it should be punished for that.

 

[Destructus86]

I've got to say that I'm seeing some signs of improvement around my area.

Restaurants that were virtually empty during lunch time a couple of months ago are now absolutely packed. People don't splurge for lunches if they don't have jobs.

Mortgage rates and housing prices are actually ticking up slightly for a change (although I suspect the banks are holding onto some inventory to keep prices artificially inflated).

And I just learned today the property tax delinquency rate dropped from over 6% last year to under 1% this year.

Hasn't changed at all in my area...if anything my city has gotten worse. I've seen more and more houses going up for sale and the ones that already were up for sale have still not sold. Stores are really empty too.

 

[wiegeabo]

Amazon is going to build a big warehouse/distribution center in a town near mine. 1,500 new permanent jobs, and another 1,000 season jobs.

 

[Destructus86]

Amazon is going to build a big warehouse/distribution center in a town near mine. 1,500 new permanent jobs, and another 1,000 season jobs.

That wouldn't be Seattle would it?

 

[wiegeabo]

Nope. California.

Although what I'm calling might not be that big for the likes of Amazon

 

[Paradoxium]

Today's job report is the most lulz in a while.

You make a giant ass miss and hit 115k new jobs from the 160k expectation (which was low as it is). We need god knows 500-800k a month now to return to pre-recession levels. Then you still manage to reduce the unemployment rate on this lousy number. Even though this barely covers new people entering the workforce.

Of course the participation rate is at it's lowest since the 80s.

Basically our unemployment rate is lower than 2009, but the total people actually employed is actually less than 2009. That's how ****ing hard they are gaming it right now. Unless you think America is depopulating en masse for no good reason.

The government can game the numbers, but you can't fool anyone with the tax receipts when you get less "revenue". How the hell you explain that **** away?

 

[Handsome Rob]

Today's job report is the most lulz in a while.

You make a giant ass miss and hit 115k new jobs from the 160k expectation (which was low as it is). We need god knows 500-800k a month now to return to pre-recession levels. Then you still manage to reduce the unemployment rate on this lousy number. Even though this barely covers new people entering the workforce.

Of course the participation rate is at it's lowest since the 80s.

Basically our unemployment rate is lower than 2009, but the total people actually employed is actually less than 2009. That's how ****ing hard they are gaming it right now. Unless you think America is depopulating en masse for no good reason.

The government can game the numbers, but you can't fool anyone with the tax receipts when you get less "revenue". How the hell you explain that **** away?

You can't, if you're going to be intellectually honest and actually look at the whole picture. But, the growing gap between tax revenues and tax expenditures will be spun as the sole result of those darn Obama Bush tax cuts for the rich.

I wouldn't expect to hear the decline in the unemployment percentage spun as anything other than a sign of the economy strengthening. And, you've got a significant number of people who will 1) automatically believe the President's every utterance, or 2) might have been skeptical, but they won't hear from most media outlets the reason why the decline in the unemployment percentage isn't indicative of the true unemployment picture . . . which is clearly much worse. They won't hear about the impact of the shrinking labor force on the %. So, their ignorance will doom them into believing the spin.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Another Two Billion Dollars Gone from JPMorgan? Sure, Why Not?

http://www.wltz.com/story/18309862/jp-morgan

(NBC News) - Financial stocks are reeling today after news of a two billion dollar loss in six weeks of trading by industry giant JP Morgan.

A two billion dollar loss, that's what we understand that JP Morgan is looking at after a trader at its London based headquarters admitted to a position going disastrously wrong.

It appears the trader, nicknamed the London Whale, was taking on a position for the groups CIO office which is designed actually to hedge against risk for the portfolio of assets held by the US investment bank.

We understand now there are a lot of questions about whether this position has been crystallized, i.e. is it still an open position which could represent even bigger losses?

JP Morgan's Jamie Dimon says, "The volatility for the rest of this quarter and next quarter or so will be high. It could cost us another billion dollars or more. Obviously we're gonna work high to have that not be a negative at all."

Questions about the risk management at JP Morgan, and just what went wrong there and also ultimately why the political implications about Wall Street.

And about the concerns Wall Street banks are circumventing rules to stop them making bets on their own accounts. The so-called propriety trading.

 

[Lighthouse]

Obviously we're gonna work high to have that not be a negative at all.

I'm pretty sure this is the problem and not the solution.

 

[8wid]

Amazon is going to build a big warehouse/distribution center in a town near mine. 1,500 new permanent jobs, and another 1,000 season jobs.

That's a good thing. Where I live one bought so much land during the real estate bubble to build a massive housing development he can't do anything with it now that the market has collapsed. So he has given hundred of thousands of dollars into campaign donations to the city council to build a road to nowhere on his land they have to borrow millions from to pay for and makes up unapproved projects for a medical corridor and a logistics park to look like he is actually building something. However he is only doing it to trick the city into bailing him out of his bad purchase.

 

[Marx]

Another Two Billion Dollars Gone from JPMorgan? Sure, Why Not?

http://www.wltz.com/story/18309862/jp-morgan

...looks like they really learned their lesson.

 

[Hobgoblin]

If they ask for a bail out, I hope they get a punch in the face instead.