Do You Believe In Evolution?

[Moviefan2k4]

So the Mesopotamians never existed? Then who wrote the epic of Gilgamesh?

Did you not notice the term "yet" in my post? Like all races the Mesopotamians are descended from Adam & Eve. As such, they could not have existed prior to the Creation, because the Creation was the beginning of everything.

How old do you think the world is again?

Well, Scripture adds up to about 4,000 years between Creation and the birth of Christ. So, combined with our current year, the Earth would be about 6,000 years old, give or take a couple centuries.

Were the Egyptians real?

Of course they existed; their civilization just isn't as old as most would have people believe. They ensalved the Israelites for 400 years, until God commanded Moses to free them through His power.

What's all this talk of "Kinds"; how many kinds were there on Noah's ark?

No one knows exactly, but my estimation (given the different kinds and the approximate size of the Ark) is that there were probably a few hundred different kinds, plus the 8 people. The Ark's size was measured in cubits, which was an old measurement based on the length of a person's arm from fingertip to elbow. Given the fact that ancient skeletons have recently been found which are over 10 feet tall, it's appropriate to assume that the Ark was quite a bit larger than some think.

and how long ago was that in your opinion?

The Flood takes place around 2,000 years after Creation, which would be about 4,000 years ago.

Because to me it seems that the vast diversity of complex organisms we have on this planet today could not possibly have all adapted to specific niches in a short period of time.

Makes about as much sense (if not more) than people teaching that animals evolved from ooze which was the result of rain on rocks billions of years ago.

Are all dogs from one kind?

Yes.

What about all birds?

Yes again.

To me it just seems like a last ditch attempt to convince yourself that what was probably meant to be a metaphor, was in fact truth.

Well, with all due respect, I'm not out to aid folks' presumptions. You don't want to believe me, fine; I'm not saying all this multiple times to impress anyone.

An Adult Lion eats around 150 pounds of meat per week - that's over 3 metric tonnes per year - of fresh meat... for one Lion.

No one said the animals on the Ark were full-grown. besides, Noah didn't go out and find the creatures himself - God brought them to him.

 

[The Battousai]

I don't know why I keep doing this...

Did you not notice the term "yet" in my post? Like all races the Mesopotamians are descended from Adam & Eve. As such, they could not have existed prior to the Creation, because the Creation was the beginning of everything.

Sorry, but the Mesopotamian civilization did indeed exist about 1000 years before you claim this "creation" occured - and this is based on HISTORICAL findings as well as SOUND dating methods.

Well, Scripture adds up to about 4,000 years between Creation and the birth of Christ. So, combined with our current year, the Earth would be about 6,000 years old, give or take a couple centuries.

Based on what? Supposed life spans of a few people that may not have existed?

Of course they existed; their civilization just isn't as old as most would have people believe. They ensalved the Israelites for 400 years, until God commanded Moses to free them through His power.

There is no evidence that the Egyptians enslaved the Hebrew people - or anyone else, for that matter.

Their "slavery" was not what we would think of it today.

No one knows exactly, but my estimation (given the different kinds and the approximate size of the Ark) is that there were probably a few hundred different kinds, plus the 8 people. The Ark's size was measured in cubits, which was an old measurement based on the length of a person's arm from fingertip to elbow.

Considering te biodiversity of the Middle East, that number of organisms isn't too outlandish, but then one would have to concede that not EVERY land creature was on the boat - which I'm sure you'd outright deny.

Given the fact that ancient skeletons have recently been found which are over 10 feet tall, it's appropriate to assume that the Ark was quite a bit larger than some think.

Source.

The Flood takes place around 2,000 years after Creation, which would be about 4,000 years ago.

Funny - there's a story from the area around that time about a flood that swept through the Nile valley and killed a lot of people in the area. This was caused by both the rising Nile river in the spring and a several-day-long storm. A Sumerian king named Ziasudra survived this, and took a decently large boat downriver with a great many supplies to feed and clothe those survivors who needed help.

There's also evidence that melting ice leftover from the last major ice age caused massive flooding in the Middle East. One such bit of evidence is the 150-200 ft. discrepancy between the Dead Sea's current beach and the one that is now underwater.

Makes about as much sense (if not more) than people teaching that animals evolved from ooze which was the result of rain on rocks billions of years ago.

PLEASE learn about chemistry before using a Straw Man argument about a subject you clearly know nothing about.

No one said the animals on the Ark were full-grown. besides, Noah didn't go out and find the creatures himself - God brought them to him.

...anyone?

 

[psychocheeseman]

Nice Post Battousai - p.s just saw George Carlin "it's bad for you 2008" hilarious!

No one said the animals on the Ark were full-grown. besides, Noah didn't go out and find the creatures himself - God brought them to him.

So Noah filled his ark with baby animals that didn't eat? You'd think they'd mention something specific like that in the bible...kinda seems a bit like a miracle - and they were pretty keen on mentioning those. Lucky that dove wasn't a baby or it wouldn't have been able to fly out to collect that olive branch... Speaking of which - how does an olive tree survive submerged under water for a year? It's not equip to stand those conditions it would drown...but anyway

Even If these baby animals didn't eat, and somehow didn't die, given that there are more than 1.5 million identified animal species currently alive today, even if a proportion evolved in the last 4000 years out of your "kinds" which is a pretty big stretch without any evidence, the vast majority would have taken much longer to adapt - not to mention the millions more now extinct animal species, which would all have had to exist in the last 6000 years according to your hypothesis) even with your starving baby idea there still would not have been enough room on the boat.

If you want to claim that all dogs all stemmed from one "kind" a mere 4000 yrs ago i suggest you search out some evidence - as currect evidence suggests the earliest dog like animals existed some 40 million years ago whilst the diversification between wolves ancestors and the wolf ancestors of now domestic dogs started some 100 000 years ago - which seems a little at odds with your "4000" year theory.

If there was a world wide flood, there would be substantial evidence of it all around the world. If Human civilisation as we know it today all stemed from Noah and his family a mere four thousand years ago we wouldn't have such diverse cultural and language groups globally. If the world were only 6000 years old we wouldn't have so many civilisations pre-dating the supposed existence of the Earth. And what about Dinosaurs? did they die in the flood, or are you one of those people who beleives Jesus rode one?

Believing in fairy tales causes far more complicated problems than it solves. Evolution is a much more believable, logical and more likely explanation.

 

[Bill]

Whatever you "know", it's faulty at best. Creation was the beginning of everything, so the Mesopotamians couldn't have known about the Fall or the Flood before they happened. They didn't exist yet.

It's a shame that you can't back that up with anything more than wishful thinking. What I do know is that the Epic of Gilgamesh predates the writings of the Bible. What I do know is that details found there are strikingly similar to what is written by the Hebrews on creation, fall, and the flood. What I do know is the Hebrew embellish their writings with stories found in previous cultures. The Epic of Gilgamesh certainly exists and it's authenticity and dating is beyond dispute. It predates even the earliest manuscripts of the Bible.

 

[Bill]

Faith would definitely help matters. Scripture is described numerous times by many people as God's Word. So, you come to a choice: either it is, or it isn't. There's no room for "middle ground" on this. Either the Bible is the inerrant word of the living God to the people of the Earth, passed down from Heaven through men, or it's not. Those who attempt to trash or blaspheme Scripture are essentially calling God a liar.

No, we're calling the men who wrote it misinformed. Literalists such as yourself see it as more than that, but men wrote those words, and you choose to believe those men.

 

[Majic Walrus]

...
Well, Scripture adds up to about 4,000 years between Creation and the birth of Christ. So, combined with our current year, the Earth would be about 6,000 years old, give or take a couple centuries.
...

What math are you using? Scripture never defines an exact timetable for the entire book of Genesis and according to scripture early man lived to be nearly a thousand years old anyway plus several generations of which we do not have specific lifespan or times for.

What scripture adds up to the Earth being 6,000 years old?

 

[dark_b]

What math are you using? Scripture never defines an exact timetable for the entire book of Genesis and according to scripture early man lived to be nearly a thousand years old anyway plus several generations of which we do not have specific lifespan or times for.

What scripture adds up to the Earth being 6,000 years old?

so now he is already making up what is in the bible?

 

[Danalys]

they use the geneologies to estimate.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Because we know how long those supposed people actually lived? Seriously some people in the bible are reported as living nearly a thousand years. Some people probably got eaten by dinosaurs or mastadons, right?

Geneologies are inaccurate to estimate timeframes. That would be like me telling you that my Dad is Joe, his Dad is Frank, his Dad is Peter. When was Peter born?

Does not compute.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

So Noah filled his ark with baby animals that didn't eat?

I never said the animals didn't eat. They'd have been stupid to not take any food with them. The Ark was a temporary haven for them and Noah's family, until the Earth was dry enough for them to leave.

Speaking of which - how does an olive tree survive submerged under water for a year? It's not equip to stand those conditions it would drown...but anyway...

Scripture doesn't say the olive branch came from a tree; it just says the dove found it, and brought it to Noah. All the information he needed was to know if the land was dry yet. The dove's find proved it.

...even if a proportion evolved in the last 4000 years out of your "kinds" which is a pretty big stretch without any evidence...

The evidence is in the fact that so many different species exist today.

the vast majority would have taken much longer to adapt - not to mention the millions more now extinct animal species...

Says who, the science books? You don't find it even remotely curious that prior to 1963, about 6% of school science texts mentioned evolution at all...then, after that, the number rose to more than 25%, and currently sits at almost 50%? Plus, the scientists are always changing their minds about how old they think the Earth is. in the 1990s, it was 3.2 billion; now, they say 4.6 billion. Huh?!

If there was a world wide flood, there would be substantial evidence of it all around the world.

There is, but many people are willfully ignorant of its true significance.

If Human civilisation as we know it today all stemed from Noah and his family a mere four thousand years ago we wouldn't have such diverse cultural and language groups globally.

Sure, we would. Kids can be born at a minimum rate of 1 every 9 months, so if you do the math, it turns out like this...

48,000 months (4,000 years) divided by 9 months = 5,333.33 x 8 people = 42,666.66

So, there's a minimum of about 42,670 people just from a family of eight...and that's if they live 4,000 years! Take into account they didn't, but their descendants have bore children of their own like mad, and the number skyrockets pretty quick.

If the world were only 6000 years old we wouldn't have so many civilisations pre-dating the supposed existence of the Earth.

Those dates are grossly exaggerated, based on extremely faulty methods of dating fossils, which can't prove anything anyway except that creature died.

And what about Dinosaurs? did they die in the flood, or are you one of those people who beleives Jesus rode one?

Baby dinosaurs were likely on the Ark, and Scripture says that the "fear of man" was put on the animals after the Flood. If I had to guess, I'd say that many of the dinosaurs died from the new enviornmental conditons, while the others were nearly annihilated by humans hunting them over the first few centuries. Also off note is that the term "dinosaur" wasn't coined until the 1800s; in Biblical days, they were called "dragons".

 

[knowsbleed]

So dinosaurs were still alive 4,000 years ago. How cool is that?




haaahhahahahahahhaaahhaha!

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Says who, the science books? You don't find it even remotely curious that prior to 1963, about 6% of school science texts mentioned evolution at all...then, after that, the number rose to more than 25%, and currently sits at almost 50%? Plus, the scientists are always changing their minds about how old they think the Earth is. in the 1990s, it was 3.2 billion; now, they say 4.6 billion. Huh?!

They're not changing their minds. They're finding new evidence that supports these hypotheses. Science is always changing because of new technology and evidence. Nothing in science is concrete.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

So dinosaurs were still alive 4,000 years ago. How cool is that?

You laugh, but there's at least a probability that a few of them might still exist. Legends of sea creatures have been told over the last few centuries, and people have claimed to see them more than once. Now, some of these are likely false, but others could likely be very true. Personally, I don't find the notion of Loch Ness being a dinosaur's hideout that much of a stretch.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Nothing in science is concrete.

Then folks should quit teaching evolution as if it were fact, when it's not. If they're going to mention it as a possible explanation, then they should give equal time to a Biblical interpretation.

 

[dark_b]

I

Sure, we would. Kids can be born at a minimum rate of 1 every 9 months, so if you do the math, it turns out like this...

48,000 months (4,000 years) divided by 9 months = 5,333.33 x 8 people = 42,666.66

So, there's a minimum of about 42,670 people just from a family of eight...and that's if they live 4,000 years! Take into account they didn't, but their descendants have bore children of their own like mad, and the number skyrockets pretty quick.

isnt this incest?

 

[dark_b]

You laugh, but there's at least a probability that a few of them might still exist. Legends of sea creatures have been told over the last few centuries, and people have claimed to see them more than once. Now, some of these are likely false, but others could likely be very true. Personally, I don't find the notion of Loch Ness being a dinosaur's hideout that much of a stretch.

with the technology that we have it would be piece of cake to find out if the monster of loch ness is real . or any other monster.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

isnt this incest?

Yes, but you have to bear two things in mind:

1) There's no other choice. They're the only people left after the Flood, so if they didn't bear children, humanity would've died out.

2) The law against incest wasn't given until Moses recieved the Ten Commandments from God...which took place after Noah's day. God didn't outlaw it until birth defects became a possibility.

 

[Danalys]

Because we know how long those supposed people actually lived? Seriously some people in the bible are reported as living nearly a thousand years. Some people probably got eaten by dinosaurs or mastadons, right?

Geneologies are inaccurate to estimate timeframes. That would be like me telling you that my Dad is Joe, his Dad is Frank, his Dad is Peter. When was Peter born?

Does not compute.

only in some of them it says that at the age of whatever some one had a son.

you don't need to make bad arguements to make this stuff look silly.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

with the technology that we have it would be piece of cake to find out if the monster of loch ness is real . or any other monster.

Not as easy as you might think. The water of Loch Ness is so dark at its depths that our brightest electric light would only illuminate a couple of feet in front of us.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Then folks should quit teaching evolution as if it were fact, when it's not. If they're going to mention it as a possible explanation, then they should give equal time to a Biblical interpretation.

Except there is evidence of evolution. Outside of the Bible, there is no evidence of creationism. That's why people accept evolution; there is evidence to support the theory.

2) The law against incest wasn't given until Moses recieved the Ten Commandments from God...which took place after Noah's day. God didn't outlaw it until birth defects became a possibility.

So God outlawed incest because of the genetic defects they can produce? In fact, how did he know these defects were caused by incest? According to you, these defects would be the result of original sin.

Seems like God would have had to understand genetics (aka science) to know this.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

only in some of them it says that at the age of whatever some one had a son.

Yep, like so...

Adam was 130 when Seth was born, and lived to the age of 930. (Gen. 5:3-5)

Seth was 105 when Enosh was born, and lived to the age of 912. (Gen. 5:6-8)

Enosh was 90 when Kenan was born, and lived to the age of 905. (Gen. 5:9-11)

Kenan was 70 when Mahalel was born, and lived to the age of 910 (Gen. 5:12-14)

That's just 4 generations right there, and the list keeps on going.

 

[knowsbleed]

Not as easy as you might think. The water of Loch Ness is so dark at its depths that our brightest electric light would only illuminate a couple of feet in front of us.

You are amazing.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

So God outlawed incest because of the genetic defects they can produce? In fact, how did he know these defects were caused by incest? According to you, these defects would be the result of original sin.

Ultimately, original sin would be the cause, but incest would've made it much more prevalent past a certain point. If mankind had never fallen, there'd be no such things as birth defects.

Seems like God would have had to understand genetics (aka science) to know this.

Well, He did create it, so it makes sense He'd understand it.

 

[dark_b]

Yes, but you have to bear two things in mind:

1) There's no other choice. They're the only people left after the Flood, so if they didn't bear children, humanity would've died out.

2) The law against incest wasn't given until Moses recieved the Ten Commandments from God...which took place after Noah's day. God didn't outlaw it until birth defects became a possibility.

so until god said that incest was wrong it was not a sin?

i hope that GOD will next year realese an ''update''. its time

i hope that he will also realese a service pack for people who are born with defects. they will heal. a service pack always fixes bugs

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Ultimately, original sin would be the cause, but incest would've made it much more prevalent past a certain point. If mankind had never fallen, there'd be no such things as birth defects.

Well, He did create it, so it makes sense He'd understand it.

But how would people have know it was incest and not God punishing them?

No response to my first point about the evidence of evolution vs evidence of creationism? Didn't think so.