Does anybody miss the simpler days?

[The Llama]

Up until a while ago, I followed Marvel comics pretty regularly. Being that I couldn't afford it, I didn't buy many, but I read stuff online and tried to keep up to date. However, around the time Sins Past/Avengers Disassembled happened, I tuned out. I just found that it was getting messed up (Sins Past, in my opinion, was an abomination) and hard to keep track. In the other Spider-man comics, there was all the mystical/giant human spider/dead stuff going on. Disassembled took away Hawkeye and messed up Scarlet Witch. Altogether, I just lost interest.

It seems like as of recently, all Marvel is interested in doing is big multi-part events that "shake the Marvel Universe to its very core!" or something like that. By now, so much **** has happened, it's getting to the point where it'll be really, really hard for Marvel to retcon their way out, if they ever want to. I didn't even follow House Of M/Civil War. I checked in on it a little just a while ago and it sounds like a mess. It makes me miss the simpler days, the Stan Lee era - mostly one-shot stories, classic cast, unconvoluted continuum. There wasn't a huge, confusing history...you can pick up an issue in the middle of the series and not be confused. There were hardly any (if at all) big, universe-changing stories, nor many deaths of major characters. There was the classic cast of villains (note that in many comics, to this day, some of the most popular villains originate in the Lee era - Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Magneto, for example) without a big history of deaths/second versions/resurrections/etc.. They didn't have highly advertised multi-part, multi-title events. The stories were simple and, most importantly, entertaining. Far more so than I find most Marvel comics now.

Now, I will also note, I'm not blinded by nostalgia...I don't think all comics need to be (or even should be) like that, for example, Daredevil I read consistently throughout most of the Bendis run and I thought it was excellent. I don't think all deaths of major characters are bad - Karen Page's death worked well, Colossus's death was okay (actually, I preferred him dead...I found the resurrection excuse kinda lame). I don't think all major, permanent changes are necessarily bad either (can't think of any examples), but I don't think you should have one every couple of months.

I think the Spider-man comics have been messed up almost irreparably; Sins Past essentially ruined Gwen Stacy for me, I hate the human spider stuff, though I suppose they could just take away the traces of it/ignore it Clone Saga-style, but I've heard something about Peter being unmasked. Unless they somehow retcon it away like they did any other time his identity was revealed to anybody in the past, then it goes against the entire concept of the character. As I said before, if it keeps up, it may eventually be pretty much impossible to retcon away.

The only solution to fix all of it that I can think of would be to create a whole new universe: keep it mostly the same, but erase Sins Past/Disassembled/House Of M/Civil War/etc. Marvel's a mess right now, and it just seems to be getting worse. Unless and until it gets fixed, I'm just gonna go crack open a few Essentials and go back to the Marvel Age.

 

[Dread]

I've gotten weary of crossover "events" myself, and do miss the days of solo titles that shared some loose continuity. However, crossover events are a way to inject sales, although usually it's from the diehards and rarely from new readers. Both DC and Marvel have upped the ante on crossovers over the past year.

You won't be alone in this sentiment, though. Get ready to make some new friends.

 

[The Llama]

bumpo

 

[Elijya]

Not personally. I've been reading comics for 13 years and personally I feel they've just gotten better and better. But I attribute that to always finding new things from new companies. If you just stick with one title, or one company, of course there will be up and down periods

 

[Phaedrus45]

I totally agree with Elijya. I've been reading comics for a good 30 years, and I find they are better than ever. Sure, you can pick a few events or comics from ALL THE STUFF Marvel puts out and try to make a case for not reading it. But, the majority of the books that come out each week are better than the two incidents, Sins Past and Avengers: Disassembled, that you mentioned. So, you don't like Sins Past? Try the exceptional Spidey-related titles, Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane or Spider-Girl. Don't like the way Bendis does New Avengers? How about the comics that feature just one of the Avengers, like Captain America or She-Hulk? In fact, I'm betting for every comic you mention, most people here could name a related title that you might enjoy.

Now, also, don't forget, disliking storylines today is no different from the past. (We just didn't have a bunch of naysayers on the internet to get our blood boiling more back then.) You mention Sins Past, but many people might mention The Clone Saga, which readers had to put up with FAAAR longer than Sins Past. Heck, if you pick up a Spidey story today, there wouldn't even be a mention of Sins Past, it's soooo past. Most of us just complain about The Other. (And, while that story, to me, was total crap, Civil War has turned it around and made it more interesting.) And, if you read your comics online, try reading some of the stories from the 60's and 70's. Now, that's hard to read!

People say it all the time on here. If you don't like a book, just move along for a while and find something worth your time and money. There are really good Marvel comics, like Runaways, New X-Men, and The Eternals, that are currently being done. Or, go over to DC and find something new to spark your interest, like Batman, 52, or Ion. OR, go the independant route and try such great books, like Invincible, Girls, or The Walking Dead.

 

[Darthphere]

Yup, put me in the Elijya camp. Seriously, im getting ready to buy a Lone Ranger title, seriously, The Lone Ranger.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Not personally. I've been reading comics for 13 years and personally I feel they've just gotten better and better. But I attribute that to always finding new things from new companies. If you just stick with one title, or one company, of course there will be up and down periods

Agreed.

And to add on to this...times change. It's not the 1960's anymore and things are going to evolve in the industry to keep it alive. If comic books were still written like they were in 1962 there probably wouldn't be a comic book industry today.

I've been a comic book reader for about 14 to 15 years now, took a 4 year hiatus there so technically it's about 9 to 10 years, but comics...today...are really awesome.

The artists. The writers. There is a lot of awesome stuff to choose from. If you are just holding yourself to Marvel and certain characters in the universe...well, you're just torturing yourself, in my opinion.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Marvel`s mess up began when Bendis thought he could do anything besides Ultimate Marvel.I dont even like that,but out of respect for other people.That`s what most say Bendis is good at.

Idendity Crisis for DC was a huge hit,Marvel wanted something like that.So Joe Q basically gave Bendis the green light for doing anything he wanted in the regular Marvel Universe.House Of M was a flop,and Civil War is seriously putting characters...well out of characer.

 

[Kotagg]

The only solution to fix all of it that I can think of would be to create a whole new universe: keep it mostly the same, but erase Sins Past/Disassembled/House Of M/Civil War/etc. Marvel's a mess right now, and it just seems to be getting worse. Unless and until it gets fixed, I'm just gonna go crack open a few Essentials and go back to the Marvel Age.

There's nothing to fix at all. It's called progression, and it's the reason we humans are more than simple animals.

 

[The Llama]

And to add on to this...times change. It's not the 1960's anymore and things are going to evolve in the industry to keep it alive. If comic books were still written like they were in 1962 there probably wouldn't be a comic book industry today.

I know what you mean...you can't have it be written in some naive nostalgic style, what I meant was more that it should just generally be simpler. Less huge, earth-shattering events, fewer deaths and other major alterations, more one-shot stories, a smaller, enduring cast. Just keep that stuff, but update the rest to match the times.

 

[Elijya]

Marvel`s mess up began when Bendis thought he could do anything besides Ultimate Marvel.I dont even like that,but out of respect for other people.That`s what most say Bendis is good at.

Idendity Crisis for DC was a huge hit,Marvel wanted something like that.So Joe Q basically gave Bendis the green light for doing anything he wanted in the regular Marvel Universe.House Of M was a flop,and Civil War is seriously putting characters...well out of characer.

How was House of M a flop? Criticly, there was a vocal minority who didn't care for it (which were the same group who didn't care for Disassembled, which this also applies to), but commercially it was an unquestionable hit

 

[Vartha]

I always hated the crossovers, I won't buy every single dang issue that the story goes into, that's just nuts these days forget it. I'll buy issues where Thor is involved and that's it.
Marvels' continuity has been shot for years now. I can remember each character with more than one title had an editor just for the continuity. If you ask me That's the problem Millar is having other than the fact that he's not familar with all the characters.
With a Title like Civil War, there should be ALOT of continous contact between writers and editors to keep the continuity straight and you can tell there isn't.
After the Secret Wars I came out of it thinking "that was lame", So far CW has been ok and I can wait on each issue because it is good.
I miss the old days, but, I like the books today, I just won't fall into buying every single book feeling ripped off again like Secret Wars.

 

[Elijya]

crossovers aren't that big a deal for me. Usually, if they're interesting all you have to do is buy the main miniseries. That's it. If you feel so inclined, pick up a few tie ins. But the mentality of ever feeling you have to or should buy EVERY tie in is ridiculous. That goes for families of books like X-Men and Spider-Man as well: There's no need to pick up EVERY title.

 

[Vartha]

The famliy books are what made me stop collecting back in the early 90's.
There was no reason for 5 titles of Spider-man 4 titles of X-men and so on, and with a series like Infinity Gaunlet or Secret Wars going through every issue was nut's to try and keep up.
People can't afford that now a days, GAS is not cheap and for evey comic you buy it's worth a gallon of gas to me.
Marvel needs to get a REAL editor and chief in there, not an artist who thinks he can handle it.
They need to get CW over with and get the continuity straight before moving on.

 

[Elijya]

Infinity Gauntlet? Again, all you had to do was buy the six issue mini if it interested you, that's it. There was nothing vital in any tie-ins

And sorry Vartha, but the Quesada hating comes off as fanboy whining (no offense), again from a vocal minority. Sure, you and the people you talk to on the net may passionately hate the guy, but the fact is, Marvel has had a huge upswing since he took over, both in quality (which is subjective, but personally the number of interesting Marvel titles has doubled for me since he first came on board) and more important financially. It doesn' matter how many letters you write or titles you drop, or whatever. The people who are in charge of Marvel, who decided whether Quesada keeps or loses the job, all they look at are the dollar signs, and those have been nothing but good since he took over.

Do I like everything he says and does? Of course not. But there are alot of things he's overseen that I DO like. Everyone's so quick to blame everything that sucks on the head honcho, while completely forgetting to give him any credit for the things he's done well. And most of the good and bad things really belong to the writers, anyway.

And who exactly is your suggestion for a "real" EIC? If Quesada couldn't handle it, he wouldn't have had the job for 6 years (and kept the company profitable and on the upswing during that time). He wasn't just an artist they got out of nowhere. He started his own company, Event Comics, which performed well. He was contracted by Marvel to do the Knights Line, which was a success under his supervision for it's first two years, after which he was chosen to succeed Bob Harrass as EIC. They don't just give the EIC job to random artists. Quesada had run his own company successfully on its own and under contract to Marvel for years.

 

[Vartha]

I just tired of the mess they have at Marvel. They need to get things straighten out.
It seems to me that they put out these Marvel universe books, and don't pay attention to what they print.
They're to quick to kill off a character, they don't just have the character retire or something if the character becomes boring, they just kill the character off.
I'm not a fanboy or I would have collected those usless many titles of the same characters. Instead of putting so much effort it multiple titles, why not put that same effort into working on other ways to making other book AS interesting?
Better yet, why not just put all that effort into their Continutiy instead of making more of a mess?
It seemed to me that half of Marvel's staff thought Thor was dead, nowhere in the last book does it say he died, he "went to SLEEP for awhile",
Marvel's communication is nowhere what it used to be.
Sure, I agree JQ has brought up sales, but, I also think that all the Marvel Movies had alittle to do with that as well, not just JQ.
I'm not saying get rid of JQ just bring in more people who KNOW how the old marvel worked.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Sleep's usually used as a metaphor for death. Thor was out of all the comics for a protracted period, so I considered him dead with an easy option to resurrect whenever they felt the time was right. Civil War doesn't seem like the right time to me, but I'm just happy Thor's coming back at all. Hopefully it'll be in a form I can enjoy, but if not I'll just play the waiting game until the current regime's out and a new managerial staff that's more open to actually using the myriad sides of the Marvel universe comes along. After about 11 years of reading comics, I've learned that it all comes down to waiting more often than not. Every character can be great and every character can suck; you've just gotta wait for the moments where your favorites shine.

 

[SpideyInATree]

I know what you mean...you can't have it be written in some naive nostalgic style, what I meant was more that it should just generally be simpler. Less huge, earth-shattering events, fewer deaths and other major alterations, more one-shot stories, a smaller, enduring cast. Just keep that stuff, but update the rest to match the times.

Marvel does have titles that are very well written and fall under the type of book that you're looking for. She-Hulk comes to mind immediately. Dan Slott is the type of writer that you should be checking out.

 

[Dread]

Marvel does have titles that are very well written and fall under the type of book that you're looking for.

Agreed. No matter whether or not Joe Q is your favorite guy or you like crossovers or whatever, there'll always be great Marvel books, and there'll always be great Marvel characters and writers. I'd recommend RUNAWAYS, it'd take a few digests to catch up, but it's worth it. YA is also good in trade. Enjoying the heck out of MTU or BEYOND! or ANNIHILATION, etc. There's always a silver lining title somewhere. Cutting the company cold turkey only hurts the small quality books that need the support. Seek 'em out.

 

[3dman27]

that would be me

 

[MyPokerShirt]

Been reading Spider-Man comics pretty regularly since 1997 (and through brit reprints at the time I have the stories from about 1994 onwards) and have recently got into a lot more than that. Comics are better than they've ever been (since I've been reading). Plus I find old comics cheesey, heavy-dialogue snorefests at times. Only the "classic" issues or those by selected, talented writers (from the 80s back) have ever got my attention.

 

[roach]

I find myself loosing intrest in the hobby. Marvel's mismanagement of their characters annoys me to no end. I didnt even go to my LCS last Wed and it's not even bothering me.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Elijya...fanboy whining...sigh. Such a lamely overused term these days.

To answer the question from the OP, yes, I do miss the simpler storylines, BUT...there really are some good Marvel titles still. I just wish they were coming from the flagship characters.

 

[Darthphere]

Well there are good comics being written from the flagship titles, it could be you dont like the story themselves, but theyre good comics. ASM's Civil War tie-ins have been great, FF has been good, Uncanny has been pretty good (though I understand a lot of people hate X-Men in space). Just because you dont like the storylin, doesnt mean they arent good. The only title that needsa shake up is Avengers IMO, but that wont happen anytime soon.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Well, in order for the stories to be good, I like my characters well written. X-Force is a good example of this. I'm not seeing it in any flagship titles right now.