Does anybody miss the simpler days?

[Valechan]

Who writes New Avengers? 'Nuff said really. Lets look at another 6 issue arc, Brubaker's Daredevil, can you say you didnt get a full 6 issues worth of story in that?

I don't read Daredevil, I don't like him.

Thing is, it's not just Bendis... look at the Milligan issues of X-Men, thank goddess that's over... and even Exiles sometimes extend the issues to create sagas.

One poster said that most great stories were big part sagas... but do you know why they are so fondly remembered? Because they weren't commonplace. A big saga like the Dark Phoenix Saga, or the Kree/Skrull War happened every now and then, and that's why they were so great. If you have saga after saga after saga, you won't remember any of them the same way.

 

[Elijya]

Yeah, I think I should start from the beginning too. And actually, I'm going to defend trades for a second here. They're a good and easy way to get into a series. I got into Astonishing X-Men through the first trade after all.

Invincible I also STRONGLY recommend getting the hardcover. The HC collects the first 13 issues, which is the same as the first three softcovers, and retails for just about the same price. Plus, it's oversized, and again, bonus material. You might think it starts a little slow, but by the time you get to issue 10, you'll be an Invincible crack-head

 

[Elijya]

I don't read Daredevil, I don't like him.

what have you tried of him?

 

[KingOfDreams]

look at the Milligan issues of X-Men, thank goddess that's over... and even Exiles sometimes extend the issues to create sagas.

I think I may be the only one who liked Milligan's run. Well, I didn't really like the Apocalypse arc so much. But I've read worse...and I've read better. I'm a big Larocca fan so I'm sure that had something to do with my staying with the title.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

I made love to it.

Urgh. Find a woman, man. And if you have one, don't tell her...^^THAT^^.


Invincible is amazing. The last issue Mark was stuck in an alternate reality. They could've dragged that out, or how he got back, but they didn't. Sometimes it doesn't have enough dialogue and lately they've taken to repeating the exact same panel to save on production time of the art (at first they made a joke about it, in the issue where Mark was having a discussion with his local comic book guy, but now they actually do it. for real ) but at least I get my monthly fix of fun. They keep the background story progressing while making sure the current one gives some sort of unique progression to it.

I think, overall, tpbs have been good for the industry. It associates comics with books, getting people into more adult material and helping draw in new readers. That's progression. Yes I've read overly entended crappy storylines (like Shathra in The Life and Death of Spiders) but usually the talented writers' skills are more able to shine through by not being so limited, with only 23 measly pages (the reunion of MJ and pete and the addition of Cap and Doc Doom in that same trade ).

Comic fans have a tendency to generalise and I'm no different, I did it there^ but I just can't see the "overall it's detrimental" standpoint. If you're not enjoying the decompression, change titles. You'll find a writer who can get his issues spot on, like... Dan Slott's She-Hulk, Millar's Ultimates, Bendis' Powers. Seriously, don't just accept it and moan about it, do something.

 

[hippy fascist]

Invincible I also STRONGLY recommend getting the hardcover. The HC collects the first 13 issues, which is the same as the first three softcovers, and retails for just about the same price. Plus, it's oversized, and again, bonus material. You might think it starts a little slow, but by the time you get to issue 10, you'll be an Invincible crack-head

YES! Try it! It worked for me...it can work for you too

 

[Darthphere]

Applauds.

(Very loudly)

I don't like this agreeing with each other stuff.

 

[Darthphere]

I don't read Daredevil, I don't like him.

Thing is, it's not just Bendis... look at the Milligan issues of X-Men, thank goddess that's over... and even Exiles sometimes extend the issues to create sagas.

One poster said that most great stories were big part sagas... but do you know why they are so fondly remembered? Because they weren't commonplace. A big saga like the Dark Phoenix Saga, or the Kree/Skrull War happened every now and then, and that's why they were so great. If you have saga after saga after saga, you won't remember any of them the same way.

Again, a minority. Not every 6 issue arc is suppose to be some huge noteworthy saga. Comics as a whole are very, very different than the comics of old. I love one and done issues. Thats why I love Detective and Jonah Hex, but some stories require more than that. DD, even if you dont read it for whatever reason is a perfect example of this, some posters here, though the arc shouldve gone on longer. If it takes 1,3, 4,6, 12 issues to tell the story, go for it. Im not naive, I know there are some that take the decompression a bit too far, but its a minority of the time, not the majority.

 

[hippy fascist]

There are upsides and down sides to this argument, yes when I'm reading ulitmate spider-man sometimes I wish trades didn't exist because they could get back to doing little one issue stories more often etc. But trades do help to keep smaller books alive. If it wasn't for trades, books like runaways and spider-girl wouldn't be here

 

[gildea]

I don't like this agreeing with each other stuff.

Yeah.

We need a good twelve page argument over bendis sometime soon otherwise we shall think we are getting soft on each other.

 

[roach]

The problem with single or double issue stories is that the stories that get remembered by everyone usually have been rather lengthy. The Dark Phoenix Saga, The Kree/Skrull War, and even The Coming Of Galactus...those are the stories I remember most from when I first started reading comics. And, if a comic today tries to keep a story limited to an issue or two, the comic buying public doesn't back it up. Spider-Girl is always struggling to stay afloat, Slott has to practically beg people on the Hype to buy his monthly titles, and Marvel Adventures is just plain crap.

exactly...I am a big Claremont fan and the thing that made his first run so legendary to me is that it didnt feel like a bunch of stories tied together but it felt like a large saga. I liked stuff like being introduced to Forge in one issue and having the X-men fight The Adversary(Forge used Cheyenne magic to have an army of demons take out the vietcong in nam...the door he opened also allowed the Adversary thru...this was also used to get Storm's powers back.) 100 issues later

 

[Phaedrus45]

exactly...I am a big Claremont fan and the thing that made his first run so legendary to me is that it didnt feel like a bunch of stories tied together but it felt like a large saga. I liked stuff like being introduced to Forge in one issue and having the X-men fight The Adversary(Forge used Cheyenne magic to have an army of demons take out the vietcong in nam...the door he opened also allowed the Adversary thru...this was also used to get Storm's powers back.) 100 issues later

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I love stories that build on other stories. (I think that's why I used to love Guardians Of The Galaxy. Each story seemed to just keep building, and by the time you finished one issue, it always had you wanting to get the next.) It's weird that Claremont was just so good with his first X-Men run, and he just doesn't seem to have it anymore.

 

[Doc Destruction]

exactly...I am a big Claremont fan and the thing that made his first run so legendary to me is that it didnt feel like a bunch of stories tied together but it felt like a large saga. I liked stuff like being introduced to Forge in one issue and having the X-men fight The Adversary(Forge used Cheyenne magic to have an army of demons take out the vietcong in nam...the door he opened also allowed the Adversary thru...this was also used to get Storm's powers back.) 100 issues later

THAT is exactly what I'm talking about. Rolling one story into another regardless of the number of issues it takes.

The 6 and done storytelling for the sake of TPB's is just crap. If it's not long enough, crappy padding is added, and that takes away from the story. Roach knows what I'm talking about.

 

[Valechan]

what have you tried of him?

The only appearances I have of Daredevil are Avengers 190-191. Blind heroes that fight ninjas are completely uninteresting to me.

I do like a story that continues over and over, but it's better when each issue has a resolution of itself, and it still forms part of a greater story. There is no need for the part x of x in every comic to indicate there's a saga. The Dark Phoenix saga had no "part x of x" and it's still recognized as a saga, some people say it's Uncanny 129-137 and others say it's 135-137.

 

[Darthphere]

THAT is exactly what I'm talking about. Rolling one story into another regardless of the number of issues it takes.

The 6 and done storytelling for the sake of TPB's is just crap. If it's not long enough, crappy padding is added, and that takes away from the story. Roach knows what I'm talking about.

Why do you assume its doen just for the sake of TPB? ASM and Daredevil have these plots that have stretched over years. Morrison is writing 4 issue arcs on Batman, Brubaker is writing a huge 12 issue arc on Uncanny. Really, again, you guys are looking at the minority here and projecting a problem that only exists in certain cases.

 

[Elijya]

The only appearances I have of Daredevil are Avengers 190-191. Blind heroes that fight ninjas are completely uninteresting to me.

Well, have an open mind. I'm sure the heroes you like now are not the same heroes you liked when you werea little kid, are they? Certain characters that might have seemeduninteresting to you at a glance you may have discovered later were quite fascinating, right? No one's tastes stay the same for their whole life, and everyone's mind can be changed about something as subjective as what characters you find interesting.

I'm not much of a Superman fan, and I doubt I will ever ever read one of his ongoing titles on a regular basis. But I've given some respected stories like Birthright, Secret Identity, Red Son, and so forth a chance and been very happy with them. So even a character you may think doesn't hold much interest for you can star in a story you do find you like.

 

[Valechan]

I doubt it's going to be the case with Daredevil. I do agree I bought books I never expected to, like Busiek's Iron Man. But Daredevil is a "street-level" hero, and also a bit "dark". I don't like dark heroes, I don't like street-level heroes much either. I like the big flashy Avengers like heroes, or books like T-Bolts, which, even though it's a book of villains, it's still a "light" book. Daredevil it's just too murky for my taste.

 

[Elijya]

Not a Batman fan?

 

[MyPokerShirt]

I have to admit a blind character who can easily be written as if he wasnt, whose gone through lots of changes - so many that he's hard to define; and one whose street level and hasnt got any "real" super powers doesn't interest me either, but some of the writing is brilliant. sebita, if you like avengers, are you a cap fan? because if you are, that should give you the level of quality that daredevil is on at the moment and if you're not... well give cap a try! his book has been pretty flashy of late with cosmic cubes and explosions and colourful WWII-era heroes in it. Just make sure you're reading something Brubaker!

 

[Doc Destruction]

Why do you assume its doen just for the sake of TPB? ASM and Daredevil have these plots that have stretched over years. Morrison is writing 4 issue arcs on Batman, Brubaker is writing a huge 12 issue arc on Uncanny. Really, again, you guys are looking at the minority here and projecting a problem that only exists in certain cases.

Perhaps now...I will admit it's getting a little better. But for a few years there it was pretty damn bad.

 

[Narynan]

Sure, you and the people you talk to on the net may passionately hate the guy, but the fact is, Marvel has had a huge upswing since he took over, both in quality (which is subjective, but personally the number of interesting Marvel titles has doubled for me since he first came on board) and more important financially. It doesn' matter how many letters you write or titles you drop, or whatever. The people who are in charge of Marvel, who decided whether Quesada keeps or loses the job, all they look at are the dollar signs, and those have been nothing but good since he took over.

I would have to agrue a small point of statement. As a single person, he may not be able to oust Joey Q in a single blow. But remember what you said, all they look at is the bottom line, MONEY. Dropping titles is marvel losing money. I stopped reading comics after the whole clone saga mid 90's dive. And I must say that crap titles are what drove me away. For the most part I think things are running well at marvel. But if enough people decide that there is crap comics coming out of a company things will sink again. And this time we do not have a 1 million sales per issue buffer to give up, nor can we say... oh they'll be back. If 50 people leave a title because they dont like it, it will be felt more than if they did during those times. I can say that I have been so upset with what they have done with a character that I left comics for almost 5 years, so what they feel is very valid. I dont agree with their outlook on things currently, but I have been there before. And there is only one way to change things, stop buying the books.

 

[Darthphere]

Perhaps now...I will admit it's getting a little better. But for a few years there it was pretty damn bad.

No, its getting a lot better, and I dont focus on the past when it comes to things like this. Improvements have been made and they will continue in the future.

 

[Valechan]

I have to admit a blind character who can easily be written as if he wasnt, whose gone through lots of changes - so many that he's hard to define; and one whose street level and hasnt got any "real" super powers doesn't interest me either, but some of the writing is brilliant. sebita, if you like avengers, are you a cap fan? because if you are, that should give you the level of quality that daredevil is on at the moment and if you're not... well give cap a try! his book has been pretty flashy of late with cosmic cubes and explosions and colourful WWII-era heroes in it. Just make sure you're reading something Brubaker!

I used to read Cap during the Jurgens day, but after the big change they did with issue 50 of that run I gave it up. Though what I've read about it seems quite good, my budget can't afford it (besides there are some other things I'd rather buy before that book).

I do read Uncanny, so I'm getting some Brubaker. I did not enjoy Deadly Genesis too much (I blame the Internet on that one, they spoiled everything about that limited long before the first issue came out ), but I did love Uncanny 475-476 and I'm eagerly waiting for the next issue.

And no Elijya... I don't like Batcrap... if he ever comes out of the closet I'll give him a chance, if not ...

 

[Elijya]

so a character's not interesting to you unless they're really powerful?

 

[The Llama]

On the subject of TPBs, I'm don't feel strongly in either direction. Some books (Daredevil being a perfect example) benefit from multi-part stories. Other books, however, like Spider-man, are more suited to shorter stories. I don't really disapprove strongly of the TPB-based system, I just basically think that it should just play out the way it plays out and the way it works best, not necessarily having to structure every story so that it can last for six issues. Maybe mix it up a bit, you can always just put the extra stories in a TPB with a storyline. Perhaps do a 3-parter or four parter, then a few one shots. Whatever. But do it based on what's better artistically, not on what makes more money.