Dreamworks/Paramount's Ghost In The Shell

[MessiahDecoy123]

You could change Danny Rand into an Asian-American and all the core elements would still be there. Don't even try the ******** "But if he's asian then he won't be an outsider" argument. Ask any Asian-American born and raised in the US and they'll tell you what a culture shock it can be when actually going to their parents, grandparents, or ancestors country of origin.

An Asian American becoming a master of Eastern mysticism and martial arts isn't as jarring and novel as a young, spoiled, blonde, white kid doing it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You are saying Asian Americans can't be named Danny Rand?

I am saying that if you can change a white character to a non-white character and you have no problem with that, then you can't argue about whitewashing when the opposite happens. Well you can, but it is one big contradiction.

 

[Monochron]

I wish I could post the John Oliver video on the subject but it has uncensored "bad" words.

 

[DarkKnight]

I am saying that if you can change a white character to a non-white character and you have no problem with that, then you can't argue about whitewashing when the opposite happens. Well you can, but it is one big contradiction.

I agree with this 100%, I also must add, as a white person, Race changing does not bother me as long as the actor/actress does a good job with the role and it works. Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury is a WIN, I think Idris Elba will be a WIN in Dark Tower, love that guy!

 

[Monochron]

An Asian American becoming a master of Eastern mysticism and martial arts isn't as jarring and novel as a young, spoiled, blonde, white kid doing it.

Yeah, an African-American becoming a fast runner and mastering basketball isn't as jarring as a young, spoiled, blonde, white kid doing it either right?

 

[Mad Ones]

Nope, because Super T keeps contradicting himself and is coming off as a bit of a racist towards whites.

reverse racism isn't a thing

The point for who? Because this isn't our money.

As to the point of changing the race, the argument here is based around source material. If the source material is other examples, you can't change the argument here because we are suddenly talking about another race because it clearly changes the argument.

The source material and how it intersects with race and gender relations, which won't be exactly the same in each case. The source material for Ghost in the Shell is disregarded so that white talent can be centred.

The source material for Iron Fist would have been disregarded if they had cast an asian actor so that Asian talent can get an opportunity.

The reality of both cases is that the option that most benefited white actors was chosen.

 

[culver3vlr22]

one issue is a studio looks at the fact over 50% of America is white so you tend to appeal to white ppl.

This issue will never be solved until there is less white ppl in the us and it's more even with races

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I wish I could post the John Oliver video on the subject but it has uncensored "bad" words.

I love John Oliver. But that doesn't mean he doesn't make bad arguments from time to time. Just look at the Oscar so White situation.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

reverse racism isn't a thing

Did you just argue you can't be racist against white people?

The source material and how it intersects with race and gender relations, which won't be exactly the same in each case. The source material for Ghost in the Shell is disregarded so that white talent can be centred.

The source material for Iron Fist would have been disregarded if they had cast an asian actor so that Asian talent can get an opportunity.

The reality of both cases is that the option that most benefited white actors was chosen.

Has nothing to do with the actors, and what the studios believe is most viable for this.

But the argument that Ghost in the Shell would have been made without Scarjo, is a non-starter to me. This movie is being made because of the actress. A film that they have been trying to adapt for quite a while is being made only because we finally got a lead female action star who they were willing to risk the money on. And that doesn't mean it is going to work. But that is why this movie is getting made.

 

[Monochron]

Did you just argue you can't be racist against white people?


Has nothing to do with the actors, and what the studios believe is most viable for this.

But the argument that Ghost in the Shell would have been made without Scarjo, is a non-starter to me. This movie is being made because of the actress. A film that they have been trying to adapt for quite a while is being made only because we finally got a lead female action star who they were willing to risk the money on. And that doesn't mean it is going to work. But that is why this movie is getting made.

No here is making that argument.

 

[SuperT]

Nope, because Super T keeps contradicting himself...

Nothing I've said in this thread has been a contradiction. Once again, changing a white character to a minority character does not have the same implications nor is it comparable to changing a minority character to a white character. I think I've explained why more than thoroughly in this thread. At this point, if you still don't understand than you're being willfully ignorant and don't want to accept what's sitting in front of all of us.

...and is coming off as a bit of a racist towards whites.

 

[MadVillainy]

Well this is a fun thread

I think the fact that they, are rumored to, play with SFX to make Johansson look more "asian". What the f*** kind of s*** is that?

 

[TheVileOne]

How are the actors racist? Also, what excuse? Why is there an excuse necessary here?

Sorry I meant casting.

IMHO, this is not the same thing as Iron Fist. That's a white actor playing a white character who has been around for decades.

Ghost in The Shell was first published in 1989. The Major's name is Motoko Kusanagi. Yes she's a cyborg, but she's also Japanese.

So yeah you can say she has the "shell" that maybe looks more anglicized or white. But the point is that she's still Japanese. IMHO that's still not a valid reason against casting an Asian or Asian American in the role. Or someone of Japanese descent.

I think the only other solution would basically make this to be completely set in New York or Los Angeles instead of Tokyo. Section 9 serves the Americana Empire instead of Tokyo. So change the names of the Major, Aramaki, etc.

IMHO, the character who was always kind of ethnically curious was Batou. His name is French, but it's not even necessarily his real name. He served in the army once, but it was never clear what country the army was for.

 

[Mad Ones]

Did you just argue you can't be racist against white people?

It's possible to show prejudice or bias against white people, but if you don't know that racism is a structure of oppression then we probably shouldn't be having this conversation. Isolated non structural incidences of the oppressed showing bias have no impacts on those who are invested in whiteness and benefit from it.

Has nothing to do with the actors, and what the studios believe is most viable for this.

But the argument that Ghost in the Shell would have been made without Scarjo, is a non-starter to me. This movie is being made because of the actress. A film that they have been trying to adapt for quite a while is being made only because we finally got a lead female action star who they were willing to risk the money on. And that doesn't mean it is going to work. But that is why this movie is getting made.

Yup! Whiteness is in the structure. Hollywood has crafted a system where things don't get made without whiteness.

 

[TheVileOne]

Once again, how much money they are willing to spend is not an excuse for racism and white washing.

The production will justify the casting by saying they put Asian actors in other featured roles here. IE Beat Takeshi is playing Aramaki. Other Asian actors make up the cast, and Production IG executives are credited on the production too.

IMHO, the film can't be set in Japan and be about a Japanese lead and have a white actress playing that character.

As for why characters look a certain way in anime, not always looking ethnically Japanese. That's just the style of animation. Anime adapted ideas from Walt Disney animation and made characters with really big and wide eyes. They like colorful hair because they think that's cool.

 

[culver3vlr22]

Yup! Whiteness is in the structure. Hollywood has crafted a system where things don't get made without whiteness.

So I guess you won't be seeing barbershop 3 this weekend

 

[DarkKnight]

HAHAHAHA WOW. being racist is being racist, doesn't matter what the actual race is.

 

[TheVileOne]

So I guess you won't be seeing barbershop 3 this weekend

That's not a legitimate argument or defense.

 

[culver3vlr22]

Once again, how much money they are willing to spend is not an excuse for racism and white washing.

The production will justify the casting by saying they put Asian actors in other featured roles here. IE Beat Takeshi is playing Aramaki. Other Asian actors make up the cast, and Production IG executives are credited on the production too.

IMHO, the show can't be set in Japan and be about a Japanese lead and have a white actress playing that character.

Problem is ameica is over 50% white and Asians make up about 6%...

You know marketing and demographics, bussiness and stuff

 

[culver3vlr22]

That's not a legitimate argument or defense.

Meet the blacks?

 

[TheVileOne]

Problem is ameica is over 50% white and Asians make up about 6%...

You know marketing and demographics, bussiness and stuff

I don't see how that's a problem. So you are basically saying that white moviegoers won't see a movie with an Asian lead just because they are Asian which is nonsense.

 

[culver3vlr22]

I don't see how that's a problem. So you are basically saying that white moviegoers won't see a movie with an Asian lead just because they are Asian which is nonsense.

It is nonsense I agree! I mean again this would be a lot easier if Americans would just read freaking subtitles

 

[TheVileOne]

We were on opposite sides of the spectrum regarding Iron Fist, but I'm glad we can more or less agree about this.

That's because I'm a purist, and you were in the wrong on Iron Fist . And everyone complaining about Iron Fist is in the wrong.

Iron Fist is a decision where they cast a white actor to play a white character but suddenly there was a vocal minority of fans that called for an Asian actor to play Iron Fist because of martial arts and oriental mysticism and stuff.

This is a case of a Japanese property, a Japanese character with a Japanese name set in Japan and primarily about Japan with a white American actor cast as the lead Japanese character. IMHO this is decidedly different than what happened with Iron Fist. This is also an established franchise that originated in Japan over 25 years ago.

 

[DarkKnight]

I'm going to go ahead and say it. I'm so excited for this film and think SJ Casting is perfect. I hope it is set in Japan just to make the haters hate even more! Even though I think it will be set in the US LOL

 

[TheVileOne]

It is nonsense I agree! I mean again this would be a lot easier if Americans would just read freaking subtitles

According to you it's a problem. IMHO, it's not a problem.

The problem is that Hollywood as a structure is stubborn about these things and won't attempt to widen the pool for these properties that specifically call for it.

IMHO it's another reason why it's problematic to adapt Japanese anime into Hollywood movies. I love anime but I just find too much of it unfilmable in a live action Hollywood format that would compromise what makes it so cool and creative.