Droping Amazing Spider-Man

[Egotastic]

#558 is the start of another Gale arc with Kitson on art.

Hmm. Maybe it'll look better colored.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Marvel Comics Inc. wanted to get rid of the marriage badly, and Quesada is their fall guy to take the heat/backlash from the fans.

The marriage (which occured in June (or maybe July) of 1987, and even had an actress in a wedding gown and some guy dressed up like Spidey at a Mets' game at Shea Stadium), was forced upon us initially because Stan Lee was going to marry the couple in the newspaper comic strip... In the comics, the two had not been dating much, but Peter proposes to her out of the blue, and the rest is history.

Many creators at the time (and many still do) claimed that this would be a big mistake for those wanting to write Spider-man.

Seven years later, a mystery figure known as Ben Reilly (the clone of Peter Parker) shows up with Marvel's intent of stating that he was the "real" Peter Parker and that the guy we had been reading about since 1975 was the clone... he was to move on to Portand Oregon with Mary Jane (he had lost his powers at this time), have babies and live happily ever after. Ben Reily, the real Peter Parker, was to take up the mantle of Spider-Man, and life was supposed to go on... with a new single Spider-Man and potential new supporting cast. This was Marvel's attempt, this has been acknowledged by creators working the story... so the Joey Quesada "agenda" is just pure bullsh1t for people that can't handle "change"... Marvel has been wanting a single Spider-Man now for a minimum of 15 years...

So when you make such an ignorant blanket statement like "Because Quesada really, really wanted to get rid of the marriage badly.", check your facts and history.

Cheers...

I just read this. It was funny, it was sad, it was wrong.

You're showing that marvel tried and failed with a single spider-man. So by that correlation you'd think trying something that moronic again would fail or at least not get such an easy green light. It would take someone willing to try this extremely unpopular agenda again high up to make it happen. Like an EiC or something. The kind of man that's not afraid to issue company wide mandates over things he personally doesn't like. But where could they find such a dynamic individual?

So marvel made a silly PR move back in the late 80's? They do stuff like this all the time, especially now with movies being such a powerful cross media commodity. And creators *****ed about it. Every change has that effect. But really they could have undone it a million differenent ways in the early years without too much trouble or backlash especially when it was still a reletively new concept and not an ingrained institution. So I guess it wasn't that big of a problem back then.

I love how people like to depict Quesada as this poor fall guy. Like he has no real power or say in things. He's stated many times in many interviews over years that he wanted Pete single again. The man set a very distinct agenda to make Pete's life so unbearable that OMD would be less horrific. Then when he didn't like JMS's story on the change he and others rewrote it, and the man did the art for the project. He's named as a cowriter for the story. How much more can the man own a concept?

Your entire condescending diatribe about how people need to check their facts and history is sad. Joe did indeed "really, really wanted to get rid of the marriage badly" because he said it for years, engineered a plan to have it done, then cowrote and did the art for the "event". What more do you want as proof for this?

Look you've got to give the man the credit for the good and the bad. If he's the reason marvel came out of bankruptcy and the source of hiring all this fine talent, then he's also responsible for the OMD/SOS sad state of affairs and the bendisized eventapooloza we're currently trapped inside. Give him credit for all of it or none, but don't pick and choose, it makes you seem prejudiced and hypocritical.

 

[Kitsune]

I just read this. It was funny, it was sad, it was wrong.

You're showing that marvel tried and failed with a single spider-man. So by that correlation you'd think trying something that moronic again would fail or at least not get such an easy green light. It would take someone willing to try this extremely unpopular agenda again high up to make it happen. Like an EiC or something. The kind of man that's not afraid to issue company wide mandates over things he personally doesn't like. But where could they find such a dynamic individual?

Your comment made me think of this:

 

[moraldeficiency]

Your comment made me think of this:

that's awesome.

 

[Blader5489]

#558 is the start of another Gale arc with Kitson on art.

Actually, it's just a one-shot. The other two issues for that month are being done by Dan Slott and Marcos Martin.

 

[Egotastic]

Marcos Martin is amazing. Those issues are going to be very tempting for purchase.

 

[iloveclones]

I just read this. It was funny, it was sad, it was wrong.

You're showing that marvel tried and failed with a single spider-man. .

You're completely over-simplifying. Of all the things that people complain about the clone saga, I doubt "But he's single..." made it on to anybody's list.

TMOB brings this up to point out that JQ was not the first to try to do away with the marriage, that in fact, it's probably been on Marvel's internal wish list long before he set foot in the office.

I, myself, don't paint him as a fall guy. I respect when people make hard decisions that they know they'll get criticism for. As long as they're doing it for what they think are the right reason. I think this is the case with JQ.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Who's that dude on the cover with Peter? Is that Menace?

Marcos Martin is amazing. Those issues are going to be very tempting for purchase.

I almost want them. God, Martin, hurry up and get on something I'd read.

 

[moraldeficiency]

You're completely over-simplifying. Of all the things that people complain about the clone saga, I doubt "But he's single..." made it on to anybody's list.

TMOB brings this up to point out that JQ was not the first to try to do away with the marriage, that in fact, it's probably been on Marvel's internal wish list long before he set foot in the office.

I, myself, don't paint him as a fall guy. I respect when people make hard decisions that they know they'll get criticism for. As long as they're doing it for what they think are the right reason. I think this is the case with JQ.

I agree with you completely, but remember I didn't use the clone saga as a reference in the first place TMOB did and I was responding to that as best I could.

I'm sure there's a lot of things on that wish list. And I never said it was Joe's initial idea but he is the man that made it happen. He was behind so much that most everyone hated before OMD and he rewrote OMD to fit his personal preferences. So while it wasn't just him, he did forward the idea, and he's the man that got it done.

I agree with your last paragraph completely. I just didn't like the offhanded and condescending manner TMOB dismissed the thought and made Joe Q this poor victim taking the hit for the mysterious higher ups in the company and using obsure and irrevelant "history" to show his point.

 

[Blader5489]

Who's that dude on the cover with Peter? Is that Menace?

Freak, I think.

 

[Kitsune]

that's awesome.

New stuff at Superdickery.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I haven't been on that site in forever. Must go back now...

 

[Blader5489]

New stuff at Superdickery.

Speaking of which, I've always loved these:

 

[Themanofbat]

I just wanted to add that I don't find JQ completely blameless for OMD, but the bottom line is something that Marvel Comics Inc., and JQ, thought the end result of OMD was the best for Spider-Man readership in the long run.

And I just brought up the Clone Saga because it was an obvious attempt by Marvel to bring back Spidey closer to his roots with everyday problems, being single, and with a supporting cast.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I just wanted to add that I don't find JQ completely blameless for OMD, but the bottom line is something that Marvel Comics Inc., and JQ, thought the end result of OMD was the best for Spider-Man readership in the long run.

And I just brought up the Clone Saga because it was an obvious attempt by Marvel to bring back Spidey closer to his roots with everyday problems, being single, and with a supporting cast.

Do you think this would have happened if Joe Q didn't want it to but the nameless man behind the curtian (aka Marvel Comics Inc.) did?

 

[fifthfiend]

Oh noes, demasking!

From http://www.marvel.com/blogs/Tom_Brevoort/entry/1096

I don't know what's more depressing, that they think their fanbase suffers from the kind of memory-related brain damage it would take to find that even slightly suspenseful, or that they're probably a hundred percent correct.

 

[iloveclones]

That's an interesting question. I think Marvel, like any company, is leery of change. But I'd imagine that JQ made the case to them that it is in the long term interest to make this particular one, even if it hurts the publishing arm of Spidey in the short term. So, no, I don't think this happens without JQ championing it. And he'll take the credit/blame down the line. BUT, this absolutely doesn't happen without at least the tacit, if not active, approval of his bosses.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I just wanted to add that I don't find JQ completely blameless for OMD, but the bottom line is something that Marvel Comics Inc., and JQ, thought the end result of OMD was the best for Spider-Man readership in the long run.

And I just brought up the Clone Saga because it was an obvious attempt by Marvel to bring back Spidey closer to his roots with everyday problems, being single, and with a supporting cast.

The only part of that they couldn't have had with a married Peter Parker is the single bit, though. I always find it odd that they somehow equate Peter's being married to the complete absence of Peter's social life. Most married couples I know still have friends and still go out. If Peter and MJ have more friends and go out a little more than most, well, comic characters are supposed to be exaggerated, right? In the end, the question that still lingers in my mind every time I think of OMD is "why was this necessary?" What would really have changed so much in BND if May died or were healed by any of the billion guys who could've healed her and Peter and MJ were still married? Just cosmetic stuff, from what I can see. No "macking on hotties at the club," obviously, no Jackpot, and no Harry. Just substitute Randy Robertson or Flash Thompson or a new character as Peter's best friend and the rest could be essentially the same.

 

[Egotastic]

Or you just have him teach again and socialize with his fellow teachers.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That would work too, although I guess they could perceive that as "aging" Peter by making him associate with a bunch of teachers. The point stands, though: there are so many less ******ed avenues to giving Peter a social life again.

 

[Egotastic]

Yeah, the idea that teaching ages Pete is utter bull****. He's as old as you write him. I had high school teachers who were 5 years older than me. I didn't consider them old then, and I certainly don't now.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Yeah, the idea that teaching ages Pete is utter bull****. He's as old as you write him. I had high school teachers who were 5 years older than me. I didn't consider them old then, and I certainly don't now.

Yeah you'd think there'd be worlds of potential there for Pete as a character and a way to still inject some high school drama into Spider-Man for those rabid younger readers. But apparently only stories from the 70s constitute anything new and good.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Man, I hate the '70s. They're taking over DC too, you know.

 

[moraldeficiency]

ah the 70's the decade ushered in by the end of the beetles and the supremes, how anyone thought good could come after that is beyond me.

 

[venom892]

Yea this we can't age peter thing is ridiculous.Wasn't the whole point of ultimate a teenage spidey?You really think a teenager is going to pick up amazing?no.THe way I see it is Marvel adventures spidey is for the kids,Ultimate for teens and Amazing for adults.