DTL Season 5-Week 13 (Set 3)

[Harlekin]

It's not about being fast. It's about 'speed': motion. It's all subject to the Speed Force, which this Flash can manipulate expertly.

 

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now open.

 

[Nightwing]

But if there is no motion then how can he tap into it?

In that scan Flash had to be moving to use that ability and when Turtle has him pinned to the floor that isnt gonna happen

 

[Aristotle]

But if there is no motion then how can he tap into it?

This is just a point of clarification, not an argument for either side: a body is always in motion. Turtle cannot possibly keep himself completely motionless. The only way to truly freeze something is absolute zero, or by Turtle stealing its speed, which he has been established as not being able to do. There is always the faintest of tremors that keep a body moving, not to mention all the massive amounts of movement going on inside a body.

 

[Aristotle]

Chaos & Order
...and in a very close contest, HOTNA. Really don't like voting for Turtle, because he's a cheapass character, but I think he might seal it for Nightwing this time.

 

[Nightwing]

Chaos & Order
...and in a very close contest, HOTNA. Really don't like voting for Turtle, because he's a cheapass character, but I think he might seal it for Nightwing this time.

He isnt cheapass...he's very skilled. And a valuable asset. You never know....I might give him up next season.

 

[XFanTim]

I don't love Wieg's writeup. Just sealing the ubers off from the battlefield, so the outcome of the battle doesn't matter? I thought that was kind of lame, plus it's not totally clear to me how they were sealed off. (Truth be told I don't really remember how people got in and out of those various environments in Exiles -- was there a door they walked through?)

But I'm sure Wieg would have done more if he had an actual opponent, so I can't be too critical. It's certainly enough to get the win against a no-show. I vote Chaos&Order.

---

In the other match both are good writeups, although there are some specific points in each I disagree with. So it's not an easy decision. Harl had Flash attack by adding speed to Turtle's brain. Harl says Turtle can't absorb his own speed. I'm not so sure he couldn't absorb the extra speed as it was being added. In Turtle's case, absorbing speed doesn't seem to mean making himself faster (in which case taking speed from yourself to give to yourself speed would make no sense). It just seems to mean taking speed away to store and give back later. Still, I could see that fight going either way.

A bigger issue is Quasar. I somewhat disagree with both Nightwing and Harl's interpretations. Nightwing says it's fine to give yourself tuber powers, so long as you don't use them. I don't agree with that. By that reasoning, we could allow a tuber like Galactus so long as he willingly limits himself to only using uber-level power. Really, characters are ranked tuber based on what they're capable of doing. Not using the power doesn't change that he has it.

But I also disagree with Harl. He has Replicant steal Quasar's power, and then either disappear (from going over the tuber bar) or explode (from not being able to handle the power). I don't see the tuber bar working that way. If something would make you tuber you just can't do it. Saying you do it anyway and lose by some kind of forfiture doesn't make sense to me.

So if Replicant + Quasar is a guy with tuber level power (which I think it is), then Replicant just can't steal Quasar's power. That invalidates both Nightwing's way of beating Quasar, and Harl's way of beating Replicant. So in that sense, it all evens out.

But Harl did something else I disagree with. He amped Animal Man to a higher weight class based on the opening created by Quasar's depowering. I don't think that's allowed. If you have an open roster spot to start with, you can amp a guy up. Maybe you could de-power one guy in prep-time to make room to amp a guy up. But amping a guy up because another guy gets depowered in the battle makes no more sense than amping a guy up because your uber has been killed. Once the battle starts, your characters are ranked whatever they're ranked regardless of what happens to them. Plus, if Replicant couldn't steal Quasar's power due to the tuber bar, that slot would never be open anyway.

So I thought Harl's writeup overused the whole Replicant depowering Quasar thing more than Nightwing's. And since I found that suspect, and in other ways I thought they were pretty even, I'll vote for Heroes of the New Age

 

[wiegeabo]

Yeah, there are doors into the environments (if I remember my Hyperion issues correctly).

 

[XFanTim]

So your team basically barricaded the doors? (Like I said it doesn't really matter since you don't have an opponent. I just didn't really get that part.)

 

[wiegeabo]

There's no doors (I don't think), more like openings. Looks like a doorway on the outside, but like a floating opening inside the environment. I do sort of make the assumption that they'll be able to close the doors, and that it's a lot harder to open them from the inside (since I don't think there's anything there when closed).

But it's a backup plan if Kyle and Exodus can't beat their opponents. And they've both beaten similar/harder opponents this season.

 

[XFanTim]

Actually, now that you mention it that's about how I remember it -- something like doorways that disappear when you shut them. Been a while since I've read those issues, though.

 

[Harlekin]

Chaos & Order

 

[Nightwing]

Chaos & Order vs. Who? - Although on paper the lineups would suggest and the way Wieg was stalemated into a kind of lame way of taking out the Ubers, id say it should have been Who? taking this one.

However in terms of the combination of meds and regs for Chaos and Order they would out do Who?'s

And Kyle wields the most powerful weapon in the universe which i think would do more against Starhawk. I think wieg couldve done more for this write up in terms of an actual strategy for taking out the ubers especially when vision is an exile and would have complete control over the tech and use it to his advantage.

 

[wiegeabo]

Team Alpha Wolf Squadron

Good and close match. While Wing had good stuff, I just liked some of Harl's counters better. Although the way Wing had Turtle take out Flash...nasty.

 

[XFanTim]

I've edited in my other vote above.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Chaos & Order

HOTNA - my choice was closer to a coin toss then a clear cut decision given I thought both writeups were equally convincingf and equally lacking. At the end of the day, I am going with Turtle.

 

[Nightwing]

I fail to see how being given the abilitiy to manipulate energy and light constructs and fly, is making someone Tuber.

When Replicant absorbs the bands he probably would inherit the abilities but I dont think it would push him Tuber. With his already placed power set he is only a low level uber in my eyes so adding flight etc would make him a high end uber at most...not Tuber.

Quasar is a low end uber in my eyes, he can do all the things a GL can and they arent high end ubers.

Personally I think if Replicant was to steal all the weapons/artifacts of Dr.Strange or steal Iron Man/Stark Supreme's armour or rid an entire team of their weapons then he would be Uber but to take the bands off Quasar or the Sword off Cap Britain,Black Panther,Proctor or to take Thor's Mjolnir that would not push him above the Tuber bar.

 

[Harlekin]

You consider Quasar to be a low end uber because you don't know jack about Quasar. He's on par with guys like the Silver Surfer.

 

[Nightwing]

You consider Quasar to be a low end uber because you don't know jack about Quasar. He's on par with guys like the Silver Surfer.

Im not the only one who thinks this. If you check out Xfantim's debate in the ranking thread he too puts Quasar in the same catergory as Superman,Thor,GL etc.

He says that if the high ends like Silver Surfer,Thanos etc were taken out then Superman,Thor,Quasar would all become high end ubers.

He doesnt seem too top tier to me. Unless you have some scans of his feats?

 

[LadyVader]

wiegeabo - though to be fair, wieg's match ups ended with: 'well X/Y/Z doesn't HAVE to win ' which is anything BUT convincing so you're saved by your oponent's absence.

Nightwing - based on the uber fights which seemed superior to me. Turtle IS a cheap ass character, but he's the one character I believe can put flashes in their place, and Replcant blowing up is not the most convincing thing I ever heard.

 

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now over.
Final Results.

Heroes of the New Age 4
Team Alpha Wolf Squadron 1

Who? 0
Chaos & Order 6

 

[Harlekin]

Congrats Nighty.

 

[Nightwing]

Thanks Harl....

Good game.