Ant-Man Edgar Wright Leaves Ant-Man!! - Part 1

[Krystal]

A lot of extra people will watch with the connection I think, especially for properties they've never heard of.

So you're saying it's profitable for both the comic line and the movie universe to have their characters connected?

Well then I guess it's here to stay.

the minor characters will get their chance eventually anyway---like Luke Cage, Iron Fist, etc.

Nobody "lost their movie" because they decided to start by building the Avengers team as their first big project.

 

[TalismanRing]

From the rumored bit - the snippet about issues concerning the morality of the characters it looks like it was more of an issue about charterers than the tone.

Pym, Janet and Lang are long standing Marvel characters and one's they presumably would like not only to use outside of of Ant-Man but also like to be properly characterized. Especially Janet.

That Feige changed the roster of the Avengers to work around Wright's schedule, cutting Pym and Janet from it, and went along with making it about Lang and aging Pym shows that Wright got a lot of creative leeway in this production. That makes one wonder what the bridge too far was for Marvel because they went pretty damn far for Wright already.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Pym/Lang/Ant-Man/Janet are all members of the Avengers in the comics. Pym and Wasp (Janet) are FOUNDING members. Unlike Thor, Iron Man and Hulk - all who have long successful solo runs - Ant-Man and Wasp are primarily known as memebers of the Avengers.

For Marvel Studios to produce an Ant-Man movie and not have it tie into the MCU and/or The Avengers in some way would be a) confusing as hell b) a slap in the face to fans of both the characters and the Avengers and c) a really really stupid business move.

In 2006, I'm sure making a moderately budgeted stand-alone Ant-Man movie by a well-regarded indie director seemed like a nifty idea. Things have changed. Dramatically.

 

[TheVision]

Q: why should Superman or Batman be in the DC Universe? Because theyre DC characters. Durrrrr-eee-urrr

 

[jmc]

Why start the MCU and then make films outside it? Thats not very bright.

Its Edgars loss if he wouldnt work to make his vision fit in with the MCU. He couldve given in a bit and had a huge hit film. Its not like this was an indie film and he was fired. It was a big franchise thing. You have to play by the rules that are established. All the other directors know that and they made it work really well. Now theyll have better careers for it.

And perhaps those rule need to to be rewritten. I make the suggestion because it seems to me too much emphasis is placed on the MCU when for the most part the solo film don't really play a huge part with one and other or the team up movies, although from what I understand Winter Soldier is the exception.

 

[jmc]

Q: why should Superman or Batman be in the DC Universe? Because theyre DC characters. Durrrrr-eee-urrr

They shouldn't.

 

[The Question]

a) confusing as hell

Who would be confused?

b) a slap in the face to fans of both the characters and the Avengers

Why? What's insulting about it?

and c) a really really stupid business move.

How would they lose money?

In 2006, I'm sure making a moderately budgeted stand-alone Ant-Man movie by a well-regarded indie director seemed like a nifty idea. Things have changed. Dramatically.

The film is going to tie into the wider MCU. That's never been in question. The plot of this film will be self contained, but it will take place in the MCU.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

There are plenty of Marvel characters that can exist outside of the Avengers in the MCU. and even some who can and should exist outside the MCU. Ant-Man isn't one of them.

The Question, if you can't figure out the answers just make some up. I'm exhausted just looking at your post. (And the answers arent difficult to infer, whether you agree or not)

 

[Krystal]

Pym/Lang/Ant-Man/Janet are all members of the Avengers in the comics. Pym and Wasp (Janet) are FOUNDING members. Unlike Thor, Iron Man and Hulk - all who have long successful solo runs - Ant-Man and Wasp are primarily known as memebers of the Avengers.

For Marvel Studios to produce an Ant-Man movie and not have it tie into the MCU and/or The Avengers in some way would be a) confusing as hell b) a slap in the face to fans of both the characters and the Avengers and c) a really really stupid business move.

In 2006, I'm sure making a moderately budgeted stand-alone Ant-Man movie by a well-regarded indie director seemed like a nifty idea. Things have changed. Dramatically.

Well said.

Q: why should Superman or Batman be in the DC Universe? Because theyre DC characters. Durrrrr-eee-urrr

you typed what I was thinking.

Next they'll be saying the Black Panther should exist in the shared MCU----why should that be??

 

[The Question]

The Question, if you can't figure out the answers just make some up. I'm exhausted just looking at your post. (And the answers arent difficult to infer, whether you agree or not)

I honestly have no idea who would be confused or how Marvel would lose money. I know you find the notion of a Hank Pym who isn't an Avenger insulting because it's different from the comics, but I don't understand why you find things that are different from the comics insulting. I mean, if you don't have any answers to those questions, that's fine.

I mean, yes, I think this movie should take place in the MCU and that it would be neat if Scott Lang joined the Avengers eventually. But There's no evidence that those things were at any point not going to happen or that Edgar Wright was against them at any step along the way.

 

[jmc]

The easiest solution for Marvel to avoid situation like this again so they can preserve their 'vision' is to simply hire TV directors, directors who know how to work with serialized media and follow the guidelines set down.

 

[Krystal]

It boils down to some people want to dismiss that Ant-Man is and always has been an integral part of the Marvel super hero Universe since it's rebirth in 1961. He was the 2nd new Marvel hero created and is a founding member of the Avengers and the Wasp was one of the first female Marvel heroes and the current movie universe is sorely short of female heroes; In addition, PYM was behind some of the big inventions in the Marvel universe..........

But because some folks so wanted Wright to direct the movie it's like...

"who cares, to hell with all that--just let Wright make his movie!"

No---- if Wright can't slightly alter his vision to integrate his movie into the universe that he's always been part of then.....


"to hell with Wright----let marvel make it's own movie."

If that was the problem---which we may never know for sure because there will be competing versions from here to eternity.

 

[The Question]

It boils down to some people want to dismiss that Ant-Man is and always has been an integral part of the Marvel super hero Universe since it's rebirth in 1961. He was the 2nd new Marvel hero created and is a founding member of the Avengers and the Wasp was one of the first female Marvel heroes and the current movie universe is sorely short of female heroes and PYM was behind some of the big inventions in the Marvel universe..........

But because some folks so wanted Wright to direct the movie it's like...

"who cares, to hell with all that--just let Wright make his movie!"

No---- if Wright can't slightly alter his vision to integrate his movie into the universe that he's always been part of then.....


"to hell with Wright----let marvel make it's own movie."

If that was the problem---which we may never know for sure because there will be competing versions from here to eternity.

No, that's not what it boils down to. What it boils down to is that some of us aren't bothered by things being shuffled around in an adaptation. Hank not being a founding member of The Avengers in an adaptation isn't an insult to the character, especially if they make him a veteran superhero who predates everyone but Cap. Things are allowed to be different in an adaptation. Making changes to the source material is not a statement that there is something wrong with the source material.

Also, you're talking about an Ant Man film with connection to the MCU whatever. There is no evidence that that was ever on the table.

 

[TheVision]

What it comes down to for me is: I dont care who makes the movie, as long as its really good. They can get any filmmaker they want. I was never a hardcore Wright fan, so this news is really not a big deal imo. Sure, it sucks he couldnt just go shoot it, but at this point I just want it made by them.

 

[The Question]

What it comes down to for me is: I dont care who makes the movie, as long as its really good. They can get any filmmaker they want. I was never a hardcore Wright fan, so this news is really not a big deal. Sure, it sucks he couldnt just go shoot it, but at this point I just want it made.

True. But some people are concerned that, since Wright is a very talented writer and director, and suddenly he's no longer working on the film, that perhaps Marvel's vision for this film is off the mark. It's possible. They've had missteps before, and even if they hadn't, everyone has at least one bad movie in them. That's not an unreasonable concern.

Also, they're changing directors, senior staff, and perhaps even the script only weeks away from shooting, and that very rarely leads to quality. Again, a legitimate concern.

 

[Krystal]

No, that's not what it boils down to. What it boils down to is that some of us aren't bothered by things being shuffled around in an adaptation. Hank not being a founding member of The Avengers in an adaptation isn't an insult to the character, especially if they make him a veteran superhero who predates everyone but Cap. Things are allowed to be different in an adaptation. Making changes to the source material is not a statement that there is something wrong with the source material.

Also, you're talking about an Ant Man film with connection to the MCU whatever. There is no evidence that that was ever on the table.

I've accepted that they have altered many things, but at this point that the Ant-Man movie is being made it is now time for the integration to begin. He IS part of that universe--most fans want it, Marvel wants it, it's happening.

If Wright didn't want it or it was too much change for him--so be it---go make your movies Mr Wright.

If he didn't see that the character was going to added to the MCU after the avengers was out---he was pretty blind.--if that was the problem.

 

[The Question]

I've accepted that they have altered many things, but at this point that the Ant-Man movie is being made it is now time for the integration to begin. He IS part of that universe--most fans want it, Marvel wants it, it's happening.

If Wright didn't want it or it was too much change for him--so be it---go make your movies Mr Wright.

If he didn't see that the character was going to added to the MCU after the avengers was out---he was pretty blind.--if that was the problem.

That almost certainly was not the problem. If it were, he would have left the project two or three years ago.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I never used the word hater. Again, that kind of commentary is for the mentally challenged.

My thoughts in this thread were aimed at people crying "disaster to the MCU" because of this Wright situation before any of them knew any facts. But again I'm taking to the same guy who formed his opinion of T:TDW before he even saw the movie.

Its funny that you can accuse me and lambast me for that when you were doing the EXACT same thing, and going even farther and arguing with people about the movie when they had seen it and you HAD NOT, hypocrite much? Thats far worse than me airing some worries with the film, which coincidently turned out to be the exact things effecting the movie. Look in the mirror every now and again before accusing people of something please.

And in my eyes calling someone a DC lover because they criticise a Marvel movie is just as bad as calling someone a hater.

Plus, people arent calling out Marvel just because of the Wright incident, there is a build up and history of things like this with Marvel and IMO and many others it whats stopping them truly great movies, something they havent made so far in mine and many other peoples opinions.

What does your review with TWS have to do with fessing up to when you're wrong? Did you lambast that movie before you saw it just like you did T:TDW?

I lambasted Marvel and the MCU, saying it was getting too formulaic and the movies were suffering for it, TWS seemed to address those issues and I admitted that.

I'll stop jumping down your throat for rushing to conclusions before facts arrive (or you've actually seen movies in question) as soon as you stop jumping down Marvel's.

Again, like you did by defending the movie before seeing it? AGAIN, arguing with people about the movie when they had seen it and you hadnt? Mirror time again.

Your supposed "die hard" status is hard to believe quite frankly, based on what I've seen of your posts. As for me defending Marvel at every impasse, again another childish argument rooted in your lack of familiarity with my posting history. I've had issues at various times with them dating back to the Norton tiff.

Again something you are doing right now, if you knew me you would know I am a Marvel fan, dating back to when I was a kid with is almost 30 years ago now.

And again, I have been on this board for 13 years talking about and discussing Marvel movies. I love the Marvel characters and am a huge fan, but according you that means I cant criticise them for something? Thats the worst logic I have ever heard. I am a huge fan of many things and when I dont like something about them I criticise, when I do like something I praise, you know like MOST people do? So stop accusing me of things you are doing in the VERY same post, to me that is childish.

But I digress. Let's not derail this thread anymore. You've said your piece, I've said mine. Time for you to move on from our tiff about T:TDW. I mean that happened in November for cryin' out loud.

Its not just about TDW though, every Marvel thread I go in I see people airing legitimate concerns about Marvel the way they do things, and in every thread I see you jumping down peoples throats and saying they must be DC lovers and **** like that, same here, you accused JMC of being a DC fanboy in this very thread. If anything is childish here, its **** like that.

 

[TheVision]

TheQuestion youre going to keep dragging this out and making excuses forever. Why cant you just drop it? Wrights gone and thats that. As I said before Marvels track record is outstanding. Wright may have had some successes but hes not the studio. They have a different way of working and he shouldve fixed his script/vision to coincide with that long ago.

Please accept this. Youre just spinning your wheels for no reason.

 

[Krystal]

That almost certainly was not the problem. If it were, he would have left the project two or three years ago.

Well the problem was, he wasn't making either in skill, or in timely fashion, or in tone the movie Marvel wanted him to make. So he is gone.



if they get Spielberg to direct Dr Strange---I would be happy---if they get somebody else because Spielberg and marvel don't see eye to eye---then I want Dr Strange to get made and be good. I won't waste my time worrying about how they 'lost Spielberg.'

for me it's the character far more than the director. I am an Ant-man fan---that's my first interest.

 

[jmc]

You accused JMC of being a DC fanboy in this very thread. If anything is childish here, its **** like that.

Did he accuse me of that? I'm a DC fan but I'm not a DC fanboy, just ask anyone in the Batman or Superman forums. I think I even had my Nolan membership card revoked after 2012 lol.

 

[The Question]

TheQuestion youre going to keep dragging this out and making excuses forever. Why cant you just drop it? Wrights gone and thats that. As I said before Marvels track record is outstanding. Wright may have had some successes but hes not the studio.

Please accept this. Youre just spinning your wheels for no reason.

I'm pointing out that the concerns people have shouldn't be dismissed.

What excuses have I made?

"Marvel's track record is outstanding, so there's no way they had bad judgement about this" isn't an excuse?

And, as far as quality film making goes, how is Marvel's track record better than Edgar Wright's?

 

[DA_Champion]

The easiest solution for Marvel to avoid situation like this again so they can preserve their 'vision' is to simply hire TV directors, directors who know how to work with serialized media and follow the guidelines set down.

Did not help with Thor 2 however.

 

[TheVision]

Me and Krystal share the same pov on this. I wish TheQuestion would get the idea instead of doing this: "Marvel isnt perfect either" yadda yadda yadda stuff. Actually they ARE perfect at this point. They know best. Thats why theyre making billions of dollars. Accept that.

 

[jmc]

Did not help with Thor 2 however.

I didn't say it would help from a quality perspective, but if they want to do things their way then they're better off just hiring TV guys to do their films. Ultimately Marvel's films just have to be good enough. If they want the MCU to be a certain way then that's their right, it just means they're better off using directors who are use to that type of work.