The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Emma Stone IS Gwen Stacy

[Super Jim]

Not necessarily.

Regarding introducing Goblin as a background character and then having him swoop in at the end of the movie, grab Gwen, and drop her, such a scenario would completely overshadow everything else that had happened in the movie and render Gwen's death - which has gravitas and oomph in the comics (as I understand it) - nothing more than a cheap 'shock and awe' stunt in the minds of general audiences (although it would certainly get them talking). In order for Gwen's death to actually mean something to general audiences as well as to comics fans, it has to be built up to in all aspects.

- I think we all expect Norman to be in ASM2, yes?

- I think it is fair for us to expect that Norman will be on his deathbed at the beginning of ASM2, since that was what was inferred in ASM1, yes?

- I think it is likely that a serum of some sort will be given to Norman since much of ASM1 was about exactly that, yes?

Ok, so then Osborn will be in ASM2 AND we will likely see him given the serum that will on one hand prevent him from dying, but will also radically change him into the Green Goblin. There are, of course, many different ways they can portray this transformation. It can be a mask, it can be multiple personalities, it can be cross species, etc.

Now, what would you do/where would you go with Osborn once he has been given the serum? Do you just show him being given the serum while on his deathbed and then not show him again until ASM3? That doesn't make much sense, right? Especially when you want to use the newly signed Cooper and get the general audience recignizing/hating him.

So, do you show him being or becoming maniacal? Do you show him losing control? Do you show him talking to himself in a mirror - (just threw up in my mouth a bit)? Hopefully not since we saw that one done already, right? Now yes, we have Electro and at least to some degree Rhino (he might not get turned into Rhino until later in the movie - but he is at least some thug driving a truck, right?). So if you got some guy sucking up power, and you were this newly transformed, new lease on life, somewhat maniacal psychopath, what would you do? Would you try to get this guy on your side? Would you try to capture him to figure out what's the deal, maybe even harness the power? Who knows, but it is likely that this Green Goblin/Osborn would do something, right?

Same thing could be said for Rhino. He's going to get Rhino'd up somewhere, right? Isn't it likely that Osborn/Green Goblin will either be behind it or at least involved? Won't GG want to use Rhino?

The point is that Osborn/Green Goblin is likely to be ramped up big time is ASM2. To me this build up seems to be GG as a mastermind, right? So he will be the big and bad villain in ASM3.

One thing I am somewhat worried about, or excited about the possibility, is Webb throwing a surprise in there. We all expect Osborn to be GG. I am almost positive we'll be shown Osborn "becoming" GG, to some degree. So when we all see the Green Goblin with a mask on we'll all know it's Osborn right. Now what if when he removes the mask it's instead Harry? I am concerned that Webb would love to pull a switcheroo like this on us, but hopefully he'll just stick to canon and go with the expected...

Look , we all agree that sometime between the end of ASM2 and the middle of ASM3, Gwen is dead, right?

Think about how much hinges on her death. The MJ friendship, revenge against GG (assuming and hoping that it will be GG), the audience hating GG, solidifying GG as a heavy hitter, Peter having to deal with the fact that his action helped cause Gwen to die (if they go that route, which I think they will), etc.

So, if they do it mid way into ASM3, can they really get into all of this? Maybe, but not very well.

But if they have her die as the finale of ASM2 then the whole of ASM3 is set up. To some it might come off as a cheap "awe and shock" tactic, but for most of the general audience they will walk out of there actually is awe and shocked. They will be saying "wow, I can't believe that happened". They'll be counting the days until ASM3.

The funniest thing about all of this discussion is that I've realized one thing...

If it wasn't Emma Stone as Gwen and instead someone who was just ok, most wouldn't have these concerns. Now imagine that Emma was MJ instead. Most would be like, heck yeah, bring on Gwen's death so Peter can get with MJ. Hopefully you get what I'm saying. So much of this resistance to Gwen dying sooner than later is because we all love Emma so much. Believe me, I do too! But Gwen's fate is what it is... They can't keep her alive and they have a story they must tell. And this includes MJ and Peter becoming closer, finding out the deal with Peter's pop, the whole GG thing, and so much more.

If you search your feelings you'll see that Gwen dying at the end of ASM2 makes the most sense.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Again, you're automatically conflating one thing with another thing. Norman being in TASM2 does not automatically mean the Green Goblin is going to be in TASM2.

BTW, I don't have to 'search' anything; Gwen dying at the end of TASM2 doesn't make sense given what else we know about the film.

Also, let me ask you a question: have you ever written a fictional story? I have, and also took nearly four years of creative writing, and therefore know what I'm talking about when I tell you that, as presently constituted, it makes no narrative sense at all to kill Gwen off in TASM2 unless they plan on having Electro or Rhino do it.

 

[jonathancrane]

I doubt Goblin will be in the film; Rhino and Electro are already going to eat up a lot of the film's screentime. Introducing one more villain is going to tip the boat over and have it end up in a situation similar to SM3. If they do bring Goblin in, it will probably be at the end, which will feed into the third film.

 

[Vid Electricz]

^ Again, you're automatically conflating one thing with another thing. Norman being in TASM2 does not automatically mean the Green Goblin is going to be in TASM2.

BTW, I don't have to 'search' anything; Gwen dying at the end of TASM2 doesn't make sense given what else we know about the film.

Also, let me ask you a question: have you ever written a fictional story? I have, and also took nearly four years of creative writing, and therefore know what I'm talking about when I tell you that, as presently constituted, it makes no narrative sense at all to kill Gwen off in TASM2 unless they plan on having Electro or Rhino do it.

You speak the truth. Far as I can tell, most of the people posting these wild speculations either:
a) expect these films to be like a juvenile cartoon series.
b) have no concept whatsoever of the dramatic structure a film like this needs to have.
c) both of the above.

 

[Super Jim]

I doubt Goblin will be in the film; Rhino and Electro are already going to eat up a lot of the film's screentime. Introducing one more villain is going to tip the boat over and have it end up in a situation similar to SM3. If they do bring Goblin in, it will probably be at the end, which will feed into the third film.

Seems like you agree with me. This is all I've stated:

That since we're seeing Emma in her death outfit and since, logically, Osborn's character will be developed and the cause of his transformation into the Goblin is likely to happen and possibly be shown, that there is a decent chance that she will die at the end of ASM2, at the hands of the Goblin. That would be pretty dramatic, wouldn't it.

How about we try this instead... I'll ask logical questions and you nay sayers and/or non-nay sayers answer:

1. Why have Emma wear her death clothes in ASM2?

1a. Do you really think that Webb would have her wear them as a red herring?

1b. Do you think she will wear the same clothes in ASM2 and then again in ASM3? If so, why do that, just to have fun with us?

1c. Do you think they would end ASM2 on a cliffhanger and start right back up at the same spot in ASM3? Almost like a "tune in next week, I mean next year"...

2. Does Gwen's death need to be caused by a psychpathic - murderer, or would they make it an accident, like a stray bolt of electricity causing her to fall?

2a. Will Electro be a murderer, or someone who can't control his powers?

2b. Will Rhino be a psychopath, or more of a thug? Would he be a mastermind?

2c. Would they really have Rhino cause Gwen's death or would it need to be a mastermind type villain?

3. Who is the most likely character to kill Gwen then (come on, be honest here)?

4. At what point in this movie do you expect to see the Russian thug turned into the Rhino?

4a. Who will turn Aleksei into the Rhino?

4b. Why would this person do this for/to him?

5. How will Electro receive his powers? An accident or on purpose?

5a. Will the Electro have any interaction with Osborn, or is he the main threat of ASM2, while the Rhino story is secondary in order to support ASM3?

6. How many stories like this end with defeating the threat, but some form of major loss? This must be that "dramatic structure" you were talking about...

Just like in ASM1, Lizard defeated, turned "good" again, Captain Stacy dead.

Just like in SM1, Goblin defeated, Goblin dead, Harry pissed, MJ relationship broken off.

Just like in ASM2, Ock defeated, turned good, Ock dead.

Just like ASM3, Sandman and Venom defeated, Harry dead.

Wow, has someone died at the end of every one? And it's always someone that Peter cares for or someone that was loved by someone Peter cares for. Guess with triumph we have to have loss. Again, must be that dramatic struture stuff.

6a. So, based on this, which character, that Peter will care for (at least to the same degree that he cared for Connors or Doc Ock in SM2), will die?

6b. Do you expect that Peter will have some form of relationship with Electro, similar to what he had with Connors or Doc Ock from SM2, or will he just be some threat?

6c. Will Electro die at the end of ASM2?

7. If it wasn't Emma, would we care as much about Gwen dying in ASM2?

I think this will get the ball rolling...

 

[DigificWriter]

1. Why have Emma wear her death clothes in ASM2?

Foreshadowing.

1a. Do you really think that Webb would have her wear them as a red herring?

Yes.

1b. Do you think she will wear the same clothes in ASM2 and then again in ASM3?

Yes. Women in real life wear outfits more than just once.

1c. Do you think they would end ASM2 on a cliffhanger and start right back up at the same spot in ASM3?

Not without setting it up beforehand.

3. Who is the most likely character to kill Gwen then (come on, be honest here)?

If it happens in this movie, Electro; if it happens in TASM3, Green Gobln.

7. If it wasn't Emma, would we care as much about Gwen dying in ASM2?

I can't speak for anyone else, but my issues with this idea of Gwen dying in TASM2 has nothing to do with who's playing her and everything to do with whether or not it makes sense narratively. Given that Marc and Emma have both indicated that they want to do "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" as exactly as possible, it doesn't make sense for them to do her death in TASM2.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Seems like you agree with me. This is all I've stated:

That since we're seeing Emma in her death outfit and since, logically, Osborn's character will be developed and the cause of his transformation into the Goblin is likely to happen and possibly be shown, that there is a decent chance that she will die at the end of ASM2, at the hands of the Goblin. That would be pretty dramatic, wouldn't it.

How about we try this instead... I'll ask logical questions and you nay sayers and/or non-nay sayers answer:

1. Why have Emma wear her death clothes in ASM2?

Same reason that Robbie mentioned "Eddie" in Spider-Man, the same reason that the names/files of other mutants like Multiple Man and Franklin Richards appeared on the computer screen in X2. They're fan-service easter eggs.

1a. Do you really think that Webb would have her wear them as a red herring?

That's the funny thing with the internet now, every fanboy thinks they're a super slueth, trying to figure out the details to every plot development, ALWAYS overestimating and making things more complicated/complex than they actually turn out to be- and they're never actually right!

Wow, has someone died at the end of every one? And it's always someone that Peter cares for or someone that was loved by someone Peter cares for. Guess with triumph we have to have loss. Again, must be that dramatic struture stuff.

Yes, these films need high dramatic stakes. What's higher stakes than a life/death scenario?

6a. So, based on this, which character, that Peter will care for (at least to the same degree that he cared for Connors or Doc Ock in SM2), will die?

It would make sense, but I doubt it as these studios are much more "franchise conscious" now. Can't go killing off characters that you can have reappear in future films, now can you?

6b. Do you expect that Peter will have some form of relationship with Electro, similar to what he had with Connors or Doc Ock from SM2, or will he just be some threat?

Yes, of course. We already know that Spider-Man is friends with Max and that Max has an obsession with Spider-Man. People complain about this kind of stuff in the Spider-Man movies all the time and I don't understand why. The phrase I see repeated often is: "Why can't the villain just be evil! I'm sick of sympathetic villains!" The answer is: Because that's boring. You need something more substantive to sustain a 2 hour film. It worked for Nolan's films, wherein the characters operated as larger than life thematic archetypes (Bane, Joker, Batman). It works for cartoons, but not for a live action motion picture, especially for a character like Spider-Man, which is so much more rooted in the human element. where you're meant to feel something for these characters.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Seems like you agree with me. This is all I've stated:

That since we're seeing Emma in her death outfit and since, logically, Osborn's character will be developed and the cause of his transformation into the Goblin is likely to happen and possibly be shown, that there is a decent chance that she will die at the end of ASM2, at the hands of the Goblin. That would be pretty dramatic, wouldn't it.

How about we try this instead... I'll ask logical questions and you nay sayers and/or non-nay sayers answer:

1. Why have Emma wear her death clothes in ASM2? Because she will die at some point in the film.

1a. Do you really think that Webb would have her wear them as a red herring? No.

1b. Do you think she will wear the same clothes in ASM2 and then again in ASM3? No. It wouldn't make sense and they would likely rather have her wear it WHEN she dies, regardless of the film. And she WILL die.

1c. Do you think they would end ASM2 on a cliffhanger and start right back up at the same spot in ASM3? Almost like a "tune in next week, I mean next year"... Yes. Though perhaps not ending IMMEDIATELY after her death. Probably after her funeral.

2. Does Gwen's death need to be caused by a psychpathic - murderer, or would they make it an accident, like a stray bolt of electricity causing her to fall? It needs to happen like it did in the comics. Her getting his by a stray lightning bolt from Electro would take away all the emotional weight that the original version has, despite how it may be executed.

2a. Will Electro be a murderer, or someone who can't control his powers?
He will start out as someone who can't control his powers but once he learns to control them, he WILL, without question, be a cold blooded killer.


2b. Will Rhino be a psychopath, or more of a thug? Would he be a mastermind? Rhino will probably me a psychopath in the medical sense, but at his core just a plain old thug.


2c. Would they really have Rhino cause Gwen's death or would it need to be a mastermind type villain? It needs to be a mastermind. In particular, Norman.

3. Who is the most likely character to kill Gwen then (come on, be honest here)? Based on all outside appearances, the most likely to do the deed (if it happens in this film) Peter, by way of Electro. If it happens in ASM3, again Peter, but by way of Norman Osborn a.k.a. Green Goblin.

4. At what point in this movie do you expect to see the Russian thug turned into the Rhino? Yes.

4a. Who will turn Aleksei into the Rhino? Oscorp. Perhaps The Man in the Shadows.

4b. Why would this person do this for/to him? As a test for Spider-Man.

5. How will Electro receive his powers? An accident or on purpose? He may receive them on purpose, but the incident is made to look like an accident. I'm sure though that it will be purely an accident.

5a. Will the Electro have any interaction with Osborn, or is he the main threat of ASM2, while the Rhino story is secondary in order to support ASM3? I'm not sure he will have an interaction with Norman or Rhino. I think that, in the grand scheme of things, both Electro and Rhino are secondary villains.

6. How many stories like this end with defeating the threat, but some form of major loss? This must be that "dramatic structure" you were talking about...

Just like in ASM1, Lizard defeated, turned "good" again, Captain Stacy dead.

Just like in SM1, Goblin defeated, Goblin dead, Harry pissed, MJ relationship broken off.

Just like in ASM2, Ock defeated, turned good, Ock dead.

Just like ASM3, Sandman and Venom defeated, Harry dead.

Wow, has someone died at the end of every one? And it's always someone that Peter cares for or someone that was loved by someone Peter cares for. Guess with triumph we have to have loss. Again, must be that dramatic struture stuff.

Most, if not all, of them.


6a. So, based on this, which character, that Peter will care for (at least to the same degree that he cared for Connors or Doc Ock in SM2), will die? Without question, Gwen Stacy. All signs point to it. Even the synopsis hints at it. "Peter hasn’t forgotten about the promise he made to Gwen’s father to protect her by staying away – but that’s a promise he just can’t keep." We all know what that leads to in the comics.

6b. Do you expect that Peter will have some form of relationship with Electro, similar to what he had with Connors or Doc Ock from SM2, or will he just be some threat? He will have no connection to him outside of the chance meeting they have in the film while Spidey is chasing Aleksei, who may or may not be Rhino at this point. He will just be a threat he has to handle.

6c. Will Electro die at the end of ASM2? Mostly likely, No.

7. If it wasn't Emma, would we care as much about Gwen dying in ASM2? It depends on the performance the actress would have given in the films up to that point, as well as the writing of the character. But more than likely, we would still care VERY much.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

I don't care whether she's gonna be dead or not, Peter should be with Mary Jane anyway.

 

[Super Jim]

I don't care whether she's gonna be dead or not, Peter should be with Mary Jane anyway.

How about this twist...

Instead of Gwen dying because of Green Goblin, MJ does!

That way we get to keep Emma playing Gwen!

Sure would be unexpected.

I know, won't happen, but I can dream...

 

[SonicWarrior]

God... She is NOT going to DIE....
...In this film anyway.

 

[Vid Electricz]

How about this twist...

Instead of Gwen dying because of Green Goblin, MJ does!

That way we get to keep Emma playing Gwen!

Sure would be unexpected.

I know, won't happen, but I can dream...

I liek it. Better yet- twist can be that is was chamelion disgised as gwen or illsion from mYsterio maybe.

 

[DigificWriter]

God... She is NOT going to DIE....

Marc and Emma have both said that the intent is to do an adaptation of "The Night Gwen Stacy Died", so you'd be wrong that her death on film isn't an inevitability.

...In this film anyway.

I agree with this part of your statement, for reasons I've already stated several times both here and elsewhere.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

Recent stills.

 

[Nicko-Ray]

^ By set photos, I think she's way prettier in this than she was in TASM. I think it's the hair I'm enjoying.

 

[Spiderdevil]

She's incredibly cute

She look better in those stills than in the movie

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I don't care whether she's gonna be dead or not, Peter should be with Mary Jane anyway.

Given that Gwen is f****** awesome in these movies, it would be interesting to see how how MJ is portrayed.
Wouldn't it be something if she wasn't portrayed as well as Gwen, so when Gwen dies and Peter ends up with MJ, people end up unsatisfied?

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

I like Emm's ponderous and sly stares.

 

[The Joker]

Given that Gwen is f****** awesome in these movies

Movie. We've only seen her in one movie so far.

 

[Super Jim]

^ Again, you're automatically conflating one thing with another thing. Norman being in TASM2 does not automatically mean the Green Goblin is going to be in TASM2.

BTW, I don't have to 'search' anything; Gwen dying at the end of TASM2 doesn't make sense given what else we know about the film.

Also, let me ask you a question: have you ever written a fictional story? I have, and also took nearly four years of creative writing, and therefore know what I'm talking about when I tell you that, as presently constituted, it makes no narrative sense at all to kill Gwen off in TASM2 unless they plan on having Electro or Rhino do it.

I know, I know, "Norman being in TASM2 doesn't mean the Green Goblin is going to be in TASM2"...

Oh, did anyone else see the recent photos of Norman's transformation pod that he breaks out of AFTER BECOMING GREEN GOBLIN which has been used for TASM2 filming?

Really cool shot!

Oh, has anyone else seen the set pic of the Green Goblin Glider that the stunt people have been practicing with?

What's being reported is that GG is going to happen during the climax of TASM2. I think that gives him plenty of time to kill Gwen by the end of the movie.

At the same time I will admit that with the recent announcement of TASM4, it is possible that Webb & Co. are going to prolong things a bit and wait until TASM3 to kill Gwen and then wrap that all up with GG being defeated in TASM4.

But the main point here is that these set photos sure seem to indicate that we will indeed be seeing Green Goblin in TASM2.

 

[DigificWriter]

When you're wrong, you're wrong, and I was wrong.

 

[CGHulk]

 

[Super Jim]

Have you guys seen this yet?
Hollywoodlife.com has a new story where an "insider" stated the following:

"Emma Stone’s character dies in the next film and that really would take a bunch out of the film if Spider-Man all the sudden starts dating a new girl so close to an important character’s death. They were noticing this occurring as they filmed Shailene’s scenes. They want to make the death of Gwen Stacy really mean something and then it will leave room for Shailene to shine in the third film."

AND:

"There is no jealousy, this is definitely a creative decision and Emma was also told that she would have her character get the proper send off and probably would appear in flashbacks and nightmares in the third film."

Now I know many of you have jumped all over me for speculating that Gwen will die at the end of TASM2. I discussed the death clothes that she was seen wearing and how she was filming on a bridge, but you guys said 'Nope, Green Goblin will not be in TASM2'.

I discussed how there is a set photo that showed the before and after of a transformation pod, likely used in TASM2 for Osborn tranforming into the Goblin and another of a glider which reportedly the stuntmen were practicing with for use in TASM2, and it didn't get too much traction from you guys.

Well now we have this "insider" saying very specifically:

"Appear in flashbacks and nightmares in the third film"!

Ummm... what about now you guys. You going to jump on board with the likely possibility that Gwen will be dying at the end of TASM2?

Can't have flashbacks and nightmares about her dying unless, well, she already died. We have some pretty good proof that the Goblin transformation happens in TASM2 (set photo of the pod) and that he'll be flying around on a glider (set photo of the glider) and that Emma was wearing clothes too similar to what Gwen wears when she dies in the comic and that she filmed on a bridge.

Even with the four films, which does leave a small possibility that they will hold off until the begining or climax of three to kill her, it is still likely that she dies at the end of TASM2.

​

 

[Green Goblin]

I want to see more of her so I'd wait untill part 3. Hell I'd rather have MJ die as I like her too much

 

[fuflipflops]

it'd make sense to keep her for flashbacks and stuff, because the studio does seem to want to do the death, but they'd also be fools to let go of emma.