Entertainment Quality

[theguido]

Pretel, how else are we to judge a film's quality than by the entertainment value it provides? What kinds of objective measurements are there that provide us with some kind of scale of quality?

 

[The Kid]

never read 'em, but there are whole books about what a good film is and what a bad film is. But besides that it really is all subjective isn't it...

 

[liamoversion2]

Pretel, how else are we to judge a film's quality than by the entertainment value it provides? What kinds of objective measurements are there that provide us with some kind of scale of quality?

Do gaping plot holes, endless continuity errors, bad character building and dodgy production values not bother you?

 

[GhostPoet]

Do gaping plot holes, endless continuity errors, bad character building and dodgy production values not bother you?

For me personally...I don't notice those things as drastically as you seem to notice them...

I mean, there isn't exactly a lot of continuity to work with in three movies. (the comics don't count. Seperate reality)


As for character building, there was enough. When most people go to a movie called The Last Stand, a movie about the battle between the Brotherhood and the X-men...they go to see it for the fights, not the plot.

I wanted to see X-men kicking butt and taking names...I wanted to see the "last stand". And that's exactly what we got. An emotion driven film with fantastic action sequences and good character interaction.

 

[theguido]

Do gaping plot holes, endless continuity errors, bad character building and dodgy production values not bother you?

I could accept the first two as possible partial objective measurements of a film's quality, but the second two are both subjective. I can see where X3 might be accused of a lack of character development, but bad production values? Please.

But there has to be way more to judging a film's quality than the first two measurements. A movie with no plot holes or continuity errors isn't going to necessarily be good, and these things don't necessarily make a movie bad. If you look hard enough, almost every movie has problems with continuity or plot holes. Personally, I saw a couple but they didn't detract from the film experience, so I don't see how that detracts from the experience of the film.

 

[Son Of Logan]

The only continuity error I had a problem with was tearing up the bridge at dusk, and when Mags set it down it was the middle of the night. Other than that, what's the beef?

 

[zanos]

They weren't even concerned about catching Magneto or stopping Phoenix till Wolverine returned from his little escapade and alerted the X-Men of Magneto's plan. They shuffled away the characters after they died as if they were chopped liver. This film didn't allow the characters to breathe at all. Such a waste.

Singer was able to make an emotionally engaging film because he cared more about the characters themselves than the action sequences and I applaud him for that. I blame the action over character approach of "X3" on Rothman and his pawns.

Yes Singer cared so much about the characters he often would find convenient plot devices to hide them and give them as little dialogue as possible in each of the first two films so that Wolverine could get all the attention. Xavier, Scott and Storm easily had more to do and say in X3 than they did in the entire first 2 films combined. All praise Singer!!!

 

[Backdrifter]

Seems to me like most of you are just accepting this movie as good because you feel like you have to. I mean, you get on the boards and discuss the film everday as you wait for its release. I dunno, it just seems like a lot of you let your love for the series affect your ability to look at the film objectively. You just over look the major flaws in the film and make excuses for it. Who cares if the film was just "supposed" to be an action movie. There is more to the X-Men than action. The producers got the entire Phoenix saga wrong in one single scene...when Cyclops died. After that, the rest of the movie was just wrong. Logan should have been sidelined and Scott should have taken the lead. Logan's story was finished after X2. This should have been an X-Men film that starred Cyclops. Not to metion the film was just jammed full of extremely bad one liners with a ridiculous over the top, generic score. I am just tired of reading all these lame excuses for this movie. It's sad.

 

[TNC9852002]

lol@zanos

-TNC

 

[BMM]

Yes Singer cared so much about the characters he often would find convenient plot devices to hide them and give them as little dialogue as possible in each of the first two films so that Wolverine could get all the attention. Xavier, Scott and Storm easily had more to do and say in X3 than they did in the entire first 2 films combined. All praise Singer!!!

. . . . . . riiiggghhht . . . . . .

 

[Backdrifter]

Yes Singer cared so much about the characters he often would find convenient plot devices to hide them and give them as little dialogue as possible in each of the first two films so that Wolverine could get all the attention. Xavier, Scott and Storm easily had more to do and say in X3 than they did in the entire first 2 films combined. All praise Singer!!!

Right...and killing SCOTT and XAIVER in the movie is not the same thing...give me a break. All 3 films shafted Xavier and Cyke. Quit acting like 3 was any different.

 

[Jan Irisi]

Seems to me like most of you are just accepting this movie as good because you feel like you have to. I mean, you get on the boards and discuss the film everday as you wait for its release. I dunno, it just seems like a lot of you let your love for the series affect your ability to look at the film objectively. You just over look the major flaws in the film and make excuses for it. Who cares if the film was just "supposed" to be an action movie. There is more to the X-Men than action. The producers got the entire Phoenix saga wrong in one single scene...when Cyclops died. After that, the rest of the movie was just wrong. Logan should have been sidelined and Scott should have taken the lead. Logan's story was finished after X2. This should have been an X-Men film that starred Cyclops. Not to metion the film was just jammed full of extremely bad one liners with a ridiculous over the top, generic score. I am just tired of reading all these lame excuses for this movie. It's sad.

But it sounds as if you aren't exactly looking at it objectively either.

If you sit down in a cinema, watch a film and feel entertained, then that is all that is needed for a film to be good to you. There are many other factors to consider, but dammit, I am not going into the theatre to analyze if the film had just the right balance of action and drama and comedy. I am not going to sit there and analyze each frame to study the cinematography to see if it lives up to certain "standards". I am not going to pay attention and count up each and every plot hole I see and let it bother me so much that I lose sleep over it. I am going to the cinema to be entertained. To be taken away for 90 minutes or 120 minutes or whatever and see a story unfold in front of me. If I laugh or cry or feel excited during the film, good for the film. If I don't, well at least I was out of the heat for a few hours.

 

[Nathan]

If it's just any other Movie, of course I'll walk in like any other people to get entertained. But it's not just any other Movie, it's a adaption of a existing and known story. So you go in and expect to see a adaption that is as faithful as possible to the source material, not to just see stuff blow up everywhere. But if they piss all over the story, then it's simply impossible to get any entertainment out of it.

 

[Backdrifter]

If it's just any other Movie, of course I'll walk in like any other people to get entertained. But it's not just any other Movie, it's a adaption of a existing and known story. So you go in and expect to see a adaption that is as faithful as possible to the source material, not to just see stuff blow up everywhere. But if they piss all over the story, then it's simply impossible to get any entertainment out of it.

Well said.

 

[Jan Irisi]

If it's just any other Movie, of course I'll walk in like any other people to get entertained. But it's not just any other Movie, it's a adaption of a existing and known story. So you go in and expect to see a adaption that is as faithful as possible to the source material. But if they piss all over the story, then it's simply impossible to get any entertainment out of it.

My favorite film of all time was Jaws. I read the book before hand, and the finished result had no resemblence to the book at all. Was I entertained? Yup, sure was. I was willing to separate the book from the film. Did I love the book? Yes I did, read it several times before the movie and have read it on occasion in the 25 years since the film came out. I also loved the film.

I think it's a matter of not wanting to let go of something you hold dear. If you hold on so tightly to something sometimes you really do miss out on something that you might like even better.

Is it so very wrong that things were altered from the original source material? Is it so wrong that they have created a different take on events? The original still exists you know. Nothing was erased from existance. The original story is still in place to read again and again and again. These films are simply a different take on certain story lines. Even the comic pages do it themselves from time to time.

 

[liamoversion2]

If it's just any other Movie, of course I'll walk in like any other people to get entertained. But it's not just any other Movie, it's a adaption of a existing and known story. So you go in and expect to see a adaption that is as faithful as possible to the source material, not to just see stuff blow up everywhere. But if they piss all over the story, then it's simply impossible to get any entertainment out of it.

Yes well said. It's really very unjust the way they pissed all over the Phoenix Saga and what not...

I mean I didn't expect much from it I suppose, but they didn't even characterize Jean properly. She was some nobody standing around in the background for most of it. If you're going to put her in the movie, at least give her a decent part...

I've never seen such a bad adaptation in my life... It was really dishonest to give the fans the finger like that... becaus that's basically what happened - they took a look at the ending of X2 and said 'ok, how can we make a third film and do as little as possible with Jean to keep the fans happy?' It's no secret the studio wasn't going for the Phoenix Saga...

I think it was Simon Kinberg who said in a recent interview something along the lines of 'it's hard to get a studio to do much other than good guys versus bad guys, so it was a challenge to get Phoenix into the movie at all.'

And the most frustrating thing is that they had two concepts into which they could have developed a mind blowing movie... but they did not capitalize on it... why wasn't Jean established as a threat to the entire world? Wasn't that how she was intitially described? Wouldn't that have made the issue of the cure much more pertinent? Wasn't that the damn point to begin with? Why wasn't the cure story tied into the Phoenix story properly? It's like they spliced together two completely different movies and had two totally separate resolutions for them... Why wasn't Jean's dark side explored? The extent of her abilities? Why not involve the government? Wouldn't that have made for some great exposition?

 

[Nathan]

Is it so very wrong that things were altered from the original source material? Is it so wrong that they have created a different take on events?

No, it's not. I went into the theater fully aware that we woulnd't see any Shi'ar, space travel or have the Phoenix sniff out stars. All I wanted was that they'd stick to the basics. Phoenix is the main threat and the focus is on Cykes.

Ok, we didn't get those two because of the introduction of the cure and Cykes sudden demise in the first 20 minutes. Could have still lived with that, but all of a sudden we see characters that have been established in the first 2 Movies act more than out of character. Xavier is a dick from the start when Jean was found without any sort of build up, Storm is the btch of the crew, Wolverine gets downgraded to a sick love puppy and suddenly takes over Cyke's characteristics and Pyro seems to walk around with only one thought in mind "I'm evil, I'm evil, I'm evil....". Add a horribly written script and rushed events and the whole movie experience goes down the drain.

 

[liamoversion2]

My favorite film of all time was Jaws. I read the book before hand, and the finished result had no resemblence to the book at all. Was I entertained? Yup, sure was. I was willing to separate the book from the film. Did I love the book? Yes I did, read it several times before the movie and have read it on occasion in the 25 years since the film came out. I also loved the film.

I think it's a matter of not wanting to let go of something you hold dear. If you hold on so tightly to something sometimes you really do miss out on something that you might like even better.

Is it so very wrong that things were altered from the original source material? Is it so wrong that they have created a different take on events? The original still exists you know. Nothing was erased from existance. The original story is still in place to read again and again and again. These films are simply a different take on certain story lines. Even the comic pages do it themselves from time to time.

I haven't read 'Jaws', but at least that was a direct adaptation of a single story into a movie...


I doubt it's comparable to what they did with Jean and some other stuff in X3.

 

[tonytr1687]

Seems to me like most of you are just accepting this movie as good because you feel like you have to. I mean, you get on the boards and discuss the film everday as you wait for its release. I dunno, it just seems like a lot of you let your love for the series affect your ability to look at the film objectively. You just over look the major flaws in the film and make excuses for it. Who cares if the film was just "supposed" to be an action movie. There is more to the X-Men than action. The producers got the entire Phoenix saga wrong in one single scene...when Cyclops died. After that, the rest of the movie was just wrong. Logan should have been sidelined and Scott should have taken the lead. Logan's story was finished after X2. This should have been an X-Men film that starred Cyclops. Not to metion the film was just jammed full of extremely bad one liners with a ridiculous over the top, generic score. I am just tired of reading all these lame excuses for this movie. It's sad.

I completely agree. All of these "its just an action movie" excuses are pathetic. The X-men films are supposed to be more than that, and Singer's flicks showed us that. Thats why I was disappointed and thats why I dont consider X3 a quality film. Entertaining, sure...but not what it should have been.

 

[Jan Irisi]

I haven't read 'Jaws', but at least that was a direct adaptation of a single story into a movie...


I doubt it's comparable to what they did with Jean and some other stuff in X3.

But it wasn't a "direct" adaptation. Oh God never mind. You missed my point entirely.

 

[liamoversion2]

No, it's not. I went into the theater fully aware that we woulnd't see any Shi'ar, space travel or have the Phoenix sniff out stars. All I wanted was that they'd stick to the basics. Phoenix is the main threat and the focus is on Cykes.

Ok, we didn't get those two because of the introduction of the cure and Cykes sudden demise in the first 20 minutes. Could have still lived with that, but all of a sudden we see characters that have been established in the first 2 Movies act more than out of character. Xavier is a dick from the start when Jean was found without any sort of build up, Storm is the btch of the crew, Wolverine gets downgraded to a sick love puppy and suddenly takes over Cyke's characteristics and Pyro seems to walk around with only one thought in mind "I'm evil, I'm evil, I'm evil....". Add a horribly written script and rushed events and the whole movie experience goes down the drain.

Yes. The out of character dialogue was an absolute disgrace...

Didn't they resolve the love triangle between Logan, Jean and Scot in X2? Why was it revisited in X3?

Pyro was still friends with Iceman at the end of X2... what the hell happened in the interim? Why is he suddenly saying he wants to kill Xavier? Why is Storm telling Rogue that the cure is a no go for ethical reasons when there's a man who has blue skin and fur sitting right beside her? Are these characters supposed to be brain dead in the movie? Or can we just put it down to bad writing?

 

[DACrowe]

The movie had no depth. A good movie engages you and makes you the audience at least try and take a journey with the characters and move with the film.

What we got with X3 was the equivalent of a McDonalds happy meal and fans are trying to make it out to be a filet mingnon.

 

[Jan Irisi]

So what you all are saying is...those who actually found this film entertaining are wrong? Those who saw it as exciting were wrong? Those who didn't pull their hair out over "plot holes" and slash their wrists when Cyclops and the Professor died...they are wrong?

I didn't enjoy Spider-man, am I wrong not to just love it to pieces? I found it tedious. Am I completely wrong? I thought Fantastic Four was a hoot. Am I wrong?

How can people's opinions be wrong? How can an emotional response like enjoyment of a movie be wrong?

I see, if someone is willing to let go of preconceived notions then they are wrong. If one accepts change, they are wrong. Or even, *gasp*, they are not "true" fans. Well, count me in the "not a true fan" category, for I enjoyed this film. I had fun. I was moved. Now I will go flail myself for not being torn up about plot holes and corny one liners.

 

[Backdrifter]

So what you all are saying is...those who actually found this film entertaining are wrong? Those who saw it as exciting were wrong? Those who didn't pull their hair out over "plot holes" and slash their wrists when Cyclops and the Professor died...they are wrong?

I didn't enjoy Spider-man, am I wrong not to just love it to pieces? I found it tedious. Am I completely wrong? I thought Fantastic Four was a hoot. Am I wrong?

How can people's opinions be wrong? How can an emotional response like enjoyment of a movie be wrong?

I see, if someone is willing to let go of preconceived notions then they are wrong. If one accepts change, they are wrong. Or even, *gasp*, they are not "true" fans. Well, count me in the "not a true fan" category, for I enjoyed this film. I had fun. I was moved. Now I will go flail myself for not being torn up about plot holes and corny one liners.

Maybe you can get over yourself while you do that.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

I think that's the biggest point about this film, it just wasn't what we expected it to be. That doesn't make it bad.

I couldn't disagree more. It was a poorly written, and poorly executed film.