Batwoman Episode 01/09 "Crisis on Infinite Earths: Hour Two"

[Legendver2]

The thing about him giving up his powers while Lex was still President irks me to an extent.

It does say how perfect the Smallville universe is when Clark is comfortable enough with a President Luthor to give up his powers.

On another note, this whole hunt for paragons is basically the infinity stones, in human form, lmao.

 

[Spider-Fan]

We all get that this is more centered around Batwoman, nobody is denying that or confused by that. It’s the fact that they have to constantly tell us how their counterparts are inferior. And it’s not like this is arising naturally, it’s completely contrived in every way. It’s like the writers have to go out of their way to beat you over the head that Supergirl and Batwoman are better versions of Superman and Batman. You can fall back on the excuse that it’s their show, and think it’s totally acceptable to do that, but really, what’s the point? Would it feel natural for a Batman show to constantly tell you how terrible Batwoman is, just to prop himself up in his own story? That would be terrible writing.

This is similar to when those initial Batwoman trailers were released, and they kept talking about how women are stronger than men. What’s the point in doing that? Do you see episodes of The Flash, where after he saves the city, he has to give a speech about how much better men are at everything than women? Does a song play in the background about how great men are? No, of course not, that would be completely stupid, but for some reason, you switch up the genders, and then make some obvious excuses, and suddenly it becomes perfectly acceptable....for whatever reason? Just because the show is centered around them and their story, doesn’t change the fact that it’s lazy and an incredibly obvious device that these writers keep incorporating.

So instead of stating the obvious about how this show is centered around them, can you explain how this is a good plot device? Also, isn’t it a bit silly that they tell us how evil Batman is for killing, and how much better Kate is for not doing that, but in the end, they have her kill Bruce? What was the point in all of that preachy nonsense about killing and how evil Batman is for doing it, if Kate ends up killing herself? lolwut?

I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea that Kate was able to defeat an old man Bruce Wayne that could barely move and whose body was clearly broken beyond belief. It's not like she killed Earth One Batman who was healthy and 100% with relative ease. I think examples of Superman being punked in the show are more valid than Batman in this case. It wasn't even the main universe Batman, it was a much weaker, much older and evil version of Batman from another Universe. So I don't think this argument really holds much water.

As for why this was a good thing from a story point of view, it's quite clear to me why they did this. Kate thinks she's inferior to Bruce. So the Monitor in order for her to see her own inner strengths presents her a version of Batman who had lost his way. I don't think it's much more complicated than that

 

[misslane38]

Radio: "An earthquake rocked Indonesia today. Thousands are dead, and many thousands are unaccounted for."

Clark: "Ah...wine and sexy time."

Some hero.

These are all of the heroes introduced on Smallville and several of them are quite capable of dealing with an earthquake: Supergirl, Impulse (Bart Allen), Zatanna, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Stargirl, Speedy, Superboy, Aquaman, Mera, Black Canary, Green Arrow, Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Legion of Superheroes, Wonder Twins, and Acrata. The Season 11 comics, which are canon, also introduced Batman, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Red Tornado, and many more. The Smallville universe is fine and well-protected.

DCTV Superman gave up his powers to live on Argo in order to have a child, and he did so because he believed he left Earth in capable hands. I am not quite sure why Clark from Smallville cannot do the same, particularly when Alan Moore wrote the same ending for Pre-Crisis Superman.

 

[misslane38]

Welling’s scenes were kinda underwhelming but I guess even his Clark decided on no flights, no tights.

Clark on Smallville in November 2018, a year before the Crisis:

He had nearly a decade flying in tights before he took some time off after his wedding to be with his wife and infant twin daughters. God forbid.

 

[misslane38]

It fits the character as in Smallville all he ever wanted was a normal life.

That's not quite true. Clark on Smallville wanted to be himself and to be normal. He wanted being himself to be normal for him, and he found that with Lois.



The show was all about getting Clark to a place where he was secure in his own skin and destiny. He discovered that "normal" for him was being a hero and being with Lois. So, Clark giving up his powers to be a father, is not about a desire to be normal. It's more about him wanting a family. Plenty of new dads take paternity leave; his twin daughters are less than a year old. Give him a break.

 

[Prison Mike]

If it makes you guys feel better, just think of him on a very long paternity leave.

 

[WhoMani]

That's not quite true. Clark on Smallville wanted to be himself and to be normal. He wanted being himself to be normal for him, and he found that with Lois.



The show was all about getting Clark to a place where he was secure in his own skin and destiny. He discovered that "normal" for him was being a hero and being with Lois. So, Clark giving up his powers to be a father, is not about a desire to be normal. It's more about him wanting a family. Plenty of new dads take paternity leave; his twin daughters are less than a year old. Give him a break.

So Clark basically wanted be himself and have a normal life which he found with Lois... that doesn't really contradict what I've said but okay.

 

[misslane38]

So Clark basically wanted be himself and have a normal life which he found with Lois... that doesn't really contradict what I've said but okay.

Yes, it does, because you are implying "normal" meant being powerless to Clark, which is not even remotely where Clark's head was at by the time he reached the series finale. Normal evolved to the life he and Lois created together where they were partners in his superhero life. He found "normal" through his love for Lois, not by choosing to live solely as a mortal man. The series finale literally addresses this; it's the reason why Lois has doubts about getting married. The entire ending of the show contradicts what you said.

 

[WhoMani]

Yes, it does, because you are implying "normal" meant being powerless to Clark, which is not even remotely where Clark's head was at by the time he reached the series finale. Normal evolved to the life he and Lois created together where they were partners in his superhero life. He found "normal" through his love for Lois, not by choosing to live solely as a mortal man. The series finale literally addresses this; it's the reason why Lois has doubts about getting married. The entire ending of the show contradicts what you said.

You completely misunderstood my comment and you literally putting words in my mouth You could have simply just ask me to elaborate on what I meant but whatever. Clearly you think that you're a mind reader

 

[antsman41]

Welling hasn't lost it.

I don’t care about some of Smallville’s faults... Tom will forever be my Clark Kent. Ahh, he’s still the best.

 

[misslane38]

You completely misunderstood my comment and you literally putting words in my mouth You could have simply just ask me to elaborate on what I meant but whatever. Clearly you think that you're a mind reader

You said the ending we saw last night was fitting because all that Clark wanted to be was normal, and I'm just pointing out that "normal" ultimately did not have anything to do with literally being a powerless human being. Clark was able to be "normal" even with powers because he had Lois, so the "Crisis" ending is not some fulfillment or resolution of Clark's deepest desire to be normal. It was something else. It fulfilled a desire to have a family, maybe, but he found "normal" with Lois long before he chose to give up his powers to have a family. If you didn't mean that Clark from Smallville finally got what he wanted, which was to be a mortal man and normal like everybody else, then please go ahead and clarify.

 

[Invader Joker]

To be honest Kevin Conroy's acting kinda exposed some of the flaws of Affleck's acting in BvS to me even though I really liked Affleck in BvS.

But even then Kevin played an even older Batman, it was on that same nature of "cynical and just tired of absolutely everything", and there was an absolutely haunted look on Kevin's eyes and there was a pain, hate, cynicsm and evil in his voice that Affleck absolutely lacked both in his eyes and the way he delivered his lines. You could tell with Kevin that this was a guy that went through absolutely everything and was over everything, and it just makes me wonder what BvS Batman would've felt like if it had been played by a stronger actor.

 

[WhoMani]

Seeing Tom Welling as Clark brought back memories of me as a kid watching Smallville. That show is one of reasons why I got into the superhero genre.

You said the ending we saw last night was fitting because all that Clark wanted to be was normal, and I'm just pointing out that "normal" ultimately did not have anything to do with literally being a powerless human being.

That's not what I meant at all and I never once said that Clark being mortal means that the character himself is "normal", in fact I never referred to the character as "normal". I've said that he has somewhat of a "normal life" because he settled down with Lois and had a family of his own, that's what I meant. I know Smallville was about him accepting himself and using the gifts he was born with to help people, you didn't have give me a lecture of the show.

 

[misslane38]

Seeing Tom Welling as Clark brought back memories of me as a kid watching Smallville. That show is one of reasons why I got into the superhero genre.

That's not what I meant at all and I never once said that Clark being mortal means that the character himself is "normal". I've said that he has somewhat of a "normal life" because he settled down with Lois and had a family of his own, that's what I meant. I know Smallville was about him accepting himself and using the gifts he was born with to help people, you didn't have give me a lecture of the show.

Okay, but he found that version of "normal" with Lois in the series finale when he was Superman and a journalist engaged to Lois Lane. That's what he told Lois in "Scion," one of the show's final episodes. Clark already achieved his goal of being normal in 2011, so "Crisis" didn't give him that dream. It gave him a family, sure, and Clark always wanted a family, but that, to me, is quite different from finally getting to live a normal life.

 

[WhoMani]

Okay, but he found that version of "normal" with Lois in the series finale when he was Superman and a journalist engaged to Lois Lane. That's what he told Lois in "Scion," one of the show's final episodes. Clark already achieved his goal of being normal in 2011, so "Crisis" didn't give him that dream. It gave him a family, sure, and Clark always wanted a family, but that, to me, is quite different from finally getting to live a normal life.

But Clark seemed happy with life at the farm and he even stated to Lex that he never regretted giving up his powers. I'm sorry that Crisis didn't agree with your interpretations of both Clark and Smallville

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Routh still has it though and is a tank next to the other superman. Seriously he looks like he could step on a new movie set right now next to Gal.

Seconded!

 

[Thome216]

So you’re telling me, in a multiverse of different Supermen....there can’t possibly be one version that would give up his powers and just live a human life?

I mean in The Dark Knight Rises, Bruce faked his death and retired from being Batman and basically lived the rest of his life anonymously. That definitively ended the Nolan series. That’s how I view the Smallville scene too.

As was stated before, we don;t know the layout of the Superheros in the Smallville universe. There might be an extremely active Justice League that could handle all the threats that come up, and c'mon whose just going to believe a man who just shows up calling himself Lex Luthor when he says the world is about to end. I'm thinking any Superman hears that every other day.

But also consider, Hoechlin's Superman had to go to Argo in order to have a kid whose superpowers would have ripped his mother apart with one baby kick. It was about removing that power before it could do any harm. I'm assuming Welling's Supes had nowhere to go in order to do the same, so giving up his powers before Lois got pregnant would be the only way to do that.

We also don't know how he gave those powers up. If it is like Superman 2, then he could get them back again if he felt the threat deserved it.

As for them propping up the women heroes at the expense of the men, IMO, especially with Kate, I'm seeing very little of that in this crossover. This Bruce being bad was just that universe's Bruce. Not everyone of them is going to be a hero at the end of their story. I'll let Dent fill that in.



Consider that in her own universe, Kate almost reveres her cousin and 'talks' to him constantly. To her he is a Paragon. I guess the only way this Bruce's turnout could be viewed in a good light by all would be if he had been the Batman Who Laughed...

And that actually would have been damn cool!

One thing I take exception to though was Kara's scene with Fox in front of the trophy case. Once she realized what it was you could tell that she was finding it abhorrent. But then I thought about the Fortress almost immediately, and how Supes has his own little museum of the villains he'd fought and beat.

I really did like when Kate and Kara were about to enter the mansion and Kara called Luke cute, and Kate was just like 'nope nope nope, that's just weird. You made it weird.' That was a cute scene.

 

[Mysterious]

This episode was great I love the loops the supermen were flying chasing each other. Kevin's voice alone wow he sounds the same. I hope ww appears cough lynda cough

 

[Mysterious]

As was stated before, we don;t know the layout of the Superheros in the Smallville universe. There might be an extremely active Justice League that could handle all the threats that come up, and c'mon whose just going to believe a man who just shows up calling himself Lex Luthor when he says the world is about to end. I'm thinking any Superman hears that every other day.

But also consider, Hoechlin's Superman had to go to Argo in order to have a kid whose superpowers would have ripped his mother apart with one baby kick. It was about removing that power before it could do any harm. I'm assuming Welling's Supes had nowhere to go in order to do the same, so giving up his powers before Lois got pregnant would be the only way to do that.

We also don't know how he gave those powers up. If it is like Superman 2, then he could get them back again if he felt the threat deserved it.

As for them propping up the women heroes at the expense of the men, IMO, especially with Kate, I'm seeing very little of that in this crossover. This Bruce being bad was just that universe's Bruce. Not everyone of them is going to be a hero at the end of their story. I'll let Dent fill that in.



Consider that in her own universe, Kate almost reveres her cousin and 'talks' to him constantly. To her he is a Paragon. I guess the only way this Bruce's turnout could be viewed in a good light by all would be if he had been the Batman Who Laughed...

And that actually would have been damn cool!

One thing I take exception to though was Kara's scene with Fox in front of the trophy case. Once she realized what it was you could tell that she was finding it abhorrent. But then I thought about the Fortress almost immediately, and how Supes has his own little museum of the villains he'd fought and beat.

I really did like when Kate and Kara were about to enter the mansion and Kara called Luke cute, and Kate was just like 'nope nope nope, that's just weird. You made it weird.' That was a cute scene.

I didn't know he had all that under there he should've just took his shirt off yum

 

[Prettyricky]

I have zero issue with an evil bruce who eventually gave in to murdering criminals and began to like it.
In the multiverse its more interesting to see what can happen to the heroes we know if they chose darker paths. Of course you always want the good versions front and center because you that hope and goodness on display bit its nice every once and a while to see a what if

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I have zero issue with an evil bruce who eventually gave in to murdering criminals and began to like it.
In the multiverse its more interesting to see what can happen to the heroes we know if they chose darker paths. Of course you always want the good versions front and center because you that hope and goodness on display bit its nice every once and a while to see a what if

Exactly. Parallel universe/alternate timeline/Elseworld stories can show us completely new takes on characters, behaviour that we'd never otherwise see. I love them.

 

[Dr.]

It wasn’t so long ago that fans were worried about Smallville Earth getting obliterated in Crisis - and ruining that series’ legacy. Now, there are complaints that a de-powered Clark is living happily ever after.

But presumably, there’s more Multiverse destruction to come; and what if Smallville Earth is among the future casualties? That’d be a double kick to the stones.

 

[heatvision38]

To be honest Kevin Conroy's acting kinda exposed some of the flaws of Affleck's acting in BvS to me even though I really liked Affleck in BvS.

But even then Kevin played an even older Batman, it was on that same nature of "cynical and just tired of absolutely everything", and there was an absolutely haunted look on Kevin's eyes and there was a pain, hate, cynicsm and evil in his voice that Affleck absolutely lacked both in his eyes and the way he delivered his lines. You could tell with Kevin that this was a guy that went through absolutely everything and was over everything, and it just makes me wonder what BvS Batman would've felt like if it had been played by a stronger actor.

Affleck's version was still young enough that he could be filled with anger and he could act on that anger. And Alfred was still alive. That Batman was still trying to channel his anger and self loathing outward by taking down Superman.

Conroy's version would be if Affleck's version did kill Superman (rather than stop like he did in BvS), shown 20 years even after that, who would have then lost his will to fight, lost any purpose. A 65 y/o Bruce who was lost and just gave up is a different role to play than a 45 y/o Bruce who still thinks he can do something with that anger and helplessness.

I thought Affleck was great in that role. Conroy was very good too, but it was just a different version, completely broken physically and spiritually.

 

[misslane38]

But Clark seemed happy with life at the farm and he even stated to Lex that he never regretted giving up his powers. I'm sorry that Crisis didn't agree with your interpretations of both Clark and Smallville

Your snark is unnecessary and misplaced. Clark can be happy with his life now AND with his life in the past. He seemed happy back when he was still powered as Superman and cohabitating with Lois too. According to his comment to Brainiac 5 in "Homecoming" after seeing his future as a reporter/hero/mate, his dream included a balanced life with superpowers. He said, "I always hoped my life would be like this. With Lois, with all of it."

Bottom line is that this outcome isn't Clark finally finding peace and happiness that had been eluding him, or Clark finally having his ultimate dream come true. It's him adding to his existing happiness as he evolves or grows over time, as is true with any person. He doesn't regret giving up his powers to have children, but that doesn't mean he regrets having powers or that he saw his life pre-kids as unsatisfying and burdensome. Meaning, he would still be open to being Superman again.

 

[WhoMani]

Your snark is unnecessary and misplaced.

I wasn't trying to be snarky