Hawkeye Episodes 1 and 2 (Spoiler Discussion)

[legendkillin]

Only had time to watch the first episode, it was slow and did pick up. The slow parts didn't really seem to provide much overall. Probably giving the 1st ep a 6.5

 

[legendkillin]

This was pretty boring. The highlight was the musical. And Clint going deaf seemed to come out of nowhere.

Years around explosions being just a not powered guy could do that. Most of the other non powered people have some head gear with tech.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Okay just finished both.

Episode 1:


First off the bat... I am nowhere near as familiar with any Young Aveners characters as some. They sprung up right around when I was getting out of monthly books. Comics are just too damned expensive as an entertainment hobby despite collecting like close to EVERYTHING the two majors were putting out back in the day. I do however love me some Clint Barton in whatever form he's taking so while I read a few issues from the Fraction run I never did more than dip my toe in while liking the characterization and over all tone he was going for so I like the general set up from which this is based but I don't have quite the emotional connection to the elements or characters they are using in this series.

But from the start this grabbed me with some as of now nit picks I will get to later.

I LOVED the idea Kate sees Clint on the day of the attack on NYC. LOVED how the title sequence caught us up in such a short time as to how Kate developed. And I love how Kate has a very deep well of aspirational enthusiasm that comes from a seemingly genuine place. She is inspired to be who she is by the heroes of her world and sees something goodr in what they do and what she believes they stand for, while of course like many fans, underestimating how that is affected and affects one's own real life and how idealistic notions can get side swiped by the considerations of every day life and reality. Kudos to Steinfeld who makes this character work with a charisma and overall likeabiliy. I am nowhere near as high on her as some but she's doing a good job so far.

Clint as played by Renner seems for some reason to rub folk the wrong way being the recipient of some, in my view, really unfair or strange criticism from the jump. Look, I ****ing adore Clint Barton as a comic book character and for sure Renner as Hawkeye on multiple levels has not been written to be as close to the books as I would like. But I like this version fine and am happy they are giving him some shine here and they are doing it in a way that is giving him wonderful moments of both depth and yes, humor. Is it the fully out and out sarcastic lovable SOB we know from comics? No. It is tamped down and very dry but I made my peace with that a long time ago and for this version it is working for me.

As our story starts Kate gets the lion's share of focus but we know Clint after close to a decade of seeing him. You can get by with less screen time and use short hand or just the flash of an image to get us into what he's thinking or feeling and we know his background enough to not need to get into his situation. Kate needs this time to establish who she is and what she is about.

Clint is so far maybe THE BEST window into how the Avengers are seen in the MCU by the general public. The traumas and hardships he has gone through cause tension when dealing with a world that only knows the broad strokes of the battles the heroes have faced so that is nice to explore as well as how this creates tension with a person's own regular existence.

Of course none of that really registers for Kate but I am happy they aren't making her obnoxiously oblivious to this. She simply has met her hero and has big assumptions, but she's not annoying.

Where does the plot go from here is almost secondary to establishing the two mains and their relationship so I am not all that focused on the wheres, whys and hows too much. Just enjoying the ride and the vet vs newb dynamic which is giving these two performers something to play with that is both breezy but gives you an idea of what is going on inside them.


My nit picks for this episode:

I get it, it is cute Kate trying to prove something takes down unintentionally a building but... No. I don't buy the bell being disturbed enough to do that. It was one of a few-ish moments of "forced" events or characterization that could have been done many other ways. Again... Nit picks but that's my feeling.


The opening with the father was... The tone was off as well as the line readings for me. Like, it felt like a literal kid's movie and not a particularly good one.


There was a slight unbelievable and awkwardness to the fights with Kate in the Ronan costume. No, not really bad but a slight off of target (heh) nature. Like, this felt too often like they oversold her punches, kicks and throws to the point the choreography was just that, and didn't come off like a fight. "But suspension of disbelief?" Yeah, I get it... Still was off for me. Sorry.

There are actions Kate took that while necessary for the plot and for fans service, had to happen but I think they could have been done better. Why did Lucky attack the track suit on the street? Why after it ran off did Kate go chasing after the pooch? I honestly didn't get why Kate went looking for Armand after either. These things for me happened inelegantly and "just cause".

Other than that though... A lot of fun, some really good stuff for Clint's character and am very interested to see the journey of Kate to becoming a pro hero. Bring on the rest.


Episode 2:


Lot of good getting to know you stuff and I actually rather enjoy Clint's barely contained aggravation with the situation he has found himself in. I would say from the convo with his wife that for sure she was Ex-something. I feel she will play a role in saving our co-heroes' bacon at some point. It's also nice that the family tension is here, obviously, but itis played low key without histrionics, that goes for both our Hawks. Kate is reacting to a confluence of rightfully at this point suspecting Jack has some connection to Armand's death combined with how her mother being engaged rocks her emotionally as such a thing often does. Again, early goings, so I am strangely still not all that caring about the big picture but it's apparent that the Bishop clan must have been caught in something and the watch being sold at the auction is but the tip.

Despite the dryness of Renner's Clint he has got some good comedic moments but I have to say... I haven't had a full on belly laugh like seeing Clint crash a LARP event in a while. Loved it... With one reservation, but I will get to that.


The tone so far is actually really balanced between an earnest vet meets newb super hero vibe and handling Marvel's corporate dictated "throw in humor Willy mildly" approach. In some ways that is why I am enjoying Renner's reaction to this and his comebacks. The "capture" by the Track Suits is an example of this playing well for me.


Speaking off... Our heroes are in a wonderful if mysterious pickle and I cannot wait to see how they get out next episode.


My nit picks for this episode:


I mentioned loving Clint v. Larpers... But again, it kinda just happened to... happen. It felt forced for the obvious reasons that it gets Clint into a funny situation but it added nothing but that. I get they wanted to separate our duo and give Clint a short errand so that Kate was free to further the plot threads with her mom and Jack but it was just there to be comedic. There were lesser forced moments this episode but that stuck out, despite it being a well done comedic scene.

 

[TheVileOne]

Years around explosions being just a not powered guy could do that. Most of the other non powered people have some head gear with tech.

What about Black Widow?

 

[Iceman]

I hope this picks up. It's great to see Hailee take on Kate and also good to see Clint get some time as a lead but some of the rest of the show I've found a bit boring. Couldn't imagine rewatching those episodes too many times or recommending this over other upcoming regular shows to anyone without its in-built advantage of being in the MCU.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Tony Dalton could tell me that water is wet and my reaction would still be "**** you, what game are you playing?!" He's like untrustworthiness personified.

It was a good two episodes, but Steinfeld is carrying this so far. She's incredible.

He looks like what winter weight motor oil would be if we're a human being.


I like Kate, they gave her lots to do because we don't know her yet but Renner's material, like being at the play, balancing his past with his present concern for his family, his stoic nature showing some chinks in the armor... That's all working for me and he is giving something for Kate to bounce off of that's more than fine especially considering how he has been shown to be different to many MCU movie heroes. As she says he keeps it close to the vest prompting her to wanna unravel what makes her hero tick. She's a more traditionally out going character but you need a Clint for this story and I think Renner in his two episodes is pulling his weight.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Solid start here. I would say my 1st impression of this show is Wandavision and Loki were better, but so far better than F&WS. But I do think it is closer to F&WS than to either Wandavision or Loki. This is def more of a comedy. I do worry that leaning into grumpy Clint may leave him vastly overshadowed in his own show by a lot of characters, though.

That said, if you hate MCU humor....you will HATE this show, lol

Oddly... Not an issue for me. They are threading the needle with two episodes pretty well for me.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

They altered backstories for Kate. In the comics, her mother was the one that died, and her father was a crime boss.

Thus far, I found the first two episodes underwhelming. Tracksuit Mafia are not compelling bad guys.

Hailee Steinfeld is my favorite part of the show. I enjoy her personality.

Still don't like Clint Barton. Not to mention, he's a pretty terrible father. No one even knows he's Ronin. I don't get why the suit is so important to him he needed to track it down himself and send his kids back home by themselves.

This is an odd criticism.

How is he a bad father for seeing a situation, the reemergence of "Ronin", that he is more than aware could place the family in danger so he goes to investigate, realizes he needs to know and do more and thus sends the kids away for their safety? Yeah his time as Ronin is a secret but now someone is in the suit. Can this get back to him? It would be irresponsible to not find out for the safety of those around him.

In what way was this a negative?

 

[TheVileOne]

This is an odd criticism.

How is he a bad father for seeing a situation, the reemergence of "Ronin", that he is more than aware could place the family in danger so he goes to investigate, realizes he needs to know and do more and thus sends the kids away for their safety?

The reemergence of Ronin in no way puts his family in danger. No one knows he's Ronin.

He's a bad father because he's supposed to be spending time with his kids over the holidays and then he sends them off alone by themselves to go back home so he can play vigilante.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The reemergence of Ronin in no way puts his family in danger. No one knows he's Ronin.

He's a bad father because he's supposed to be spending time with his kids over the holidays and then he sends them off alone by themselves to go back home so he can play vigilante.

Uh... What?

You had a moment in your life where you went around the world killing a lot of people and making a specific kind of enemy.

Thanos will snap his fingers and turn your family to dust in an instant.

A Cartel or Yakuza enforcer may cut your kids up piece by piece and send you the parts over days. They may put your kids in an oil drum and dump them in a hole somewhere letting lack of food or water do the job.

He sees this secret of his on TV running around. If someone got the suit you have to ask how and is it possible it could get back to him? That is literally being responsible. Get the kids to safety and try to suss how much is or is not compromised in regards to Ronin and his connection to that identity.

This reaction baffles me.

 

[TheVileOne]

Uh... What?

You had a moment in your life where you went around the world killing a lot of people and making a specific kind of enemy.

Thanos will snap his fingers and turn your family to dust in an instant.

A Cartel or Yakuza enforcer may cut your kids up piece by piece and send you the parts over days. They may put your kids in an oil drum and dump them in a hole somewhere letting lack of food or water do the job.

He sees this secret of his on TV running around. If someone got the suit you have to ask how and is it possible it could get back to him? That is literally being responsible. Get the kids to safety and try to suss how much is or is not compromised in regards to Ronin and his connection to that identity.

This reaction baffles me.

So running head first into those people with no mask and no costume when everyone publicly knows your identity is a good way to take care of that problem I suppose? Considering Hawkeye is a public figure that danger still exists without the costume.

Hawkeye is a bad father. He said it himself in Civil War.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

So running head first into those people with no mask and no costume when everyone publicly knows your identity is a good way to take care of that problem I suppose? Considering Hawkeye is a public figure that danger still exists without the costume.

Hawkeye is a bad father. He said it himself in Civil War.

His kids and wife obviously care for him while the show also obviously takes pains to show how his super life causes tension.

But bad father is really hyperbolic.

Again... He knows the level of nastiness his foes from his Ronin period can stoop to. He sees the costume which he IDs as his actual costume, not a recreation. Would it be MORE responsible and better parenting to just go about your vacay and act like nothing? He doesn't know if suddenly, now when he and the kids are window shopping that a hit squad isn't going to spray bullets and kill one of his children since he's in the city where the new Ronin is apparently making enemies already.

Could he have contacted someone? Maybe. They haven't exactly let us know what is going on with Fury though and we don't know how much of his Ronin activities made it into the official record. Is he wanted by any U.S. or foreign government law enforcement authorities? Is reaching out an option?

Finding out what is going on and making sure the kids are safe is the responsible play considering what we know.

Again... I'm baffled by your reasoning and conclusions here.

 

[TheVileOne]

His kids and wife obviously care for him while the show also obviously takes pains to show how his super life causes tension.

But bad father is really hyperbolic.

Again... He knows the level of nastiness his foes from his Ronin period can stoop to. He sees the costume which he IDs as his actual costume, not a recreation. Would it be MORE responsible and better parenting to just go about your vacay and act like nothing? He doesn't know if suddenly, now when he and the kids are window shopping that a hit squad isn't going to spray bullets and kill one of his children since he's in the city where the new Ronin is apparently making enemies already.

Could he have contacted someone? Maybe. They haven't exactly let us know what is going on with Fury though and we don't know how much of his Ronin activities made it into the official record. Is he wanted by any U.S. or foreign government law enforcement authorities? Is reaching out an option?

Finding out what is going on and making sure the kids are safe is the responsible play considering what we know.

Again... I'm baffled by your reasoning and conclusions here.

I'm baffled by yours.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I am sincerely baffled by some people calling this boring. I remember when the Netflix shows were running and wishing they would cut the insistence on the single-plot season structure, because they were just spinning wheels to drag it out. But seeing the response to some of these D+ shows... It's like some comments can't wrap their heads around anything happening in a show besides constant beat-by-beat perpetration of A-plot action.

As for Jack - Yeah, I really hope he isn't the villain at this point. He's just so overtly suspicious. Would love to see him ruined by the end of the season and recruited by the Contessa.

 

[legendkillin]

What about Black Widow?

Left her out since she died, Clint hearing loss is post Endgame. He also stayed pretty active after the Snap by being Ronin. Fighting criminal gunmen up close.

 

[Zarex]

I would think a career of professional superheroing and secret agent work would have extremely negative impact on a non enhanced human body as said fella reaches middle age. Clint losing hearing in one ear as a consequence of his work seems quite plausible.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I would think a career of professional superheroing and secret agent work would have extremely negative impact on a non enhanced human body as said fella reaches middle age. Clint losing hearing in one ear as a consequence of his work seems quite plausible.

Indeed. Notice they didn't give one moment just a montage of Clint being put through the ringer.

To quote a great man "It ain't the years, it's the mileage."

 

[Ninjablade]

Watched the first two episodes earlier. A little slow, but I enjoyed them. Kate and Clint's interactions are the highlight of the show and I'm looking forward to seeing their relationship grow throughout the rest of the season. It's great to see Clint getting the spotlight. I've enjoyed the character more with each outing in the MCU and he's been great so far. The deadpan humor meshes well with his good natured fatherly intentions.

Kate is very charming, though I wish they didn't go so overboard with the destruction of the bell tower as that was kind of an unlikable action. Other than that, she's been fun and cute. Though, I don't think you could've picked two less trust worthy actors to play her parents

How they chose to bring in the whole Ronin thing from Endgame was... strange. It doesn't make much sense and feels very forced. I feel there are way more logical ways to get Clint and Kate to cross paths with people Clint pissed off.

Of the shows I've watched, WandaVision still started the strongest, but this is a close second. Just hoping the rest can stick with the landing. I'll wait until episode 4, which has been the make or break of these show so far to me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

At least Kate shines in moments.

Want to like this, just very surprised at the lack of fun punchy action, comedic timing or style. I'll try and blame it on the source being too good..until next week.

Sorry, I was trying to make a Fraction, "Hawkeye and Hawkeye" joke. It clearly didn't not pass muster.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

$10 to make Danny's fist glow. The rest went to getting Carrie Ann-Moss.

That was the natural radiance of Jessica Henwick's smile.

 

[Iceman]

Love The LARP Stuff.
Pretty Good, So Far.

Ha, loved that stuff. Had no idea it was coming and makes me want to try it out for real.

 

[Web-Head]

Kate Bishop my beloved! Hailee and everyone else involved has done a great job bringing her to life already. You can tell they're setting up a job as a Private Eye too.

Somewhat of a slow start but still good. Loved seeing Kate's POV of the attack on NY and the tracksuit mafia reminds me of the dimwits you'd have to fight in the Spider-Man game on PS4.

This was my most anticipated Disney Plus series' and so far it hasn't disappointed.

 

[Web-Head]

One thing I feel the show is doing absolutely right is Kate Bishop, which, since she's such a major part of it, means I will certainly continue to watch and enjoy it, generic MCU-ness and all...as long as they keep on doing that one thing right. Steinfeld so far is carrying this thing on her back, and I'm very much looking forward to her future in the MCU.

I agree completely

The first thing that caught my attention was that Kate's dad was killed and her mom had to raise her alone. This theme of killing off dads and forcing women to raise their kids by themselves has gotten real old real fast. They could literally switch out the mom and dad's roles and nothing would change story wise.

I also really like Clint. His whole thing with the live action roleplay was hilarious. Guy just wants to go home for Christmas and live a quiet life.

I'm curious to see where this goes but I'm also not invested in Kate as an Avenger.

I didn't have a problem with the whole Kate's dad died and raised by her mom since I think it better sets up Clint as a father figure for her. You don't or didn't necessarily have to kill her dad off to do that but still. It also drove her to archery, martial arts, etc because she felt she had to protect her mom and "be ready in case aliens came back"

 

[Zyraquis]

For me the surprised highlight is the mafia - “I found her, bro.”

 

[Dark Raven]

Enjoyable first couple of episodes. It seemed to be Kate Bishop's story more than Clint Barton's though. The first episode was almost like the pilot for a new Kate Bishop series with Hawkeye as guest star. Hailee Steinfeld pretty much carried the show while Jeremy Renner felt more of a supporting character in his own show. He was only there a fraction of the time in the first episode.

Rogers the Musical was entertaining. Here is the full song released by Marvel:



Sounds like it should've been called "I Can Do This All Day" instead of "Save the City" as the words "Save the City" seem more incidental while "I Can Do This All Day" is repeated more and sounds like it's the refrain.

I would've preferred that Hawkeye lost his hearing in the same way as in the comics instead of just being around too many loud explosions. What about everyone else in the Avengers? Weren't they there for these incidents too? How come their hearing wasn't affected? In the comics, he had to stick a sonic arrow in his mouth to overcome some kind of mind control (or something like that) while in some fight with Mockingbird. The screeching sound of the sonic arrow helped him to regain control but also was so loud that it damaged his hearing permanently.