Explained: Entitlements/Copy-Protection/etc

I think we're all talking about nothing here. There's no way this would make it into the PS3, it would be market suicide, it would give retail outlets a big reason to hold a grudge against the system and kindly inform customers of their other, cheaper options, and we would have heard about it before now.
 
yeah, go look in the justice society of America thread in the comics forum, then click on dc comics. whenyou find the thread, go to the last page and click back at least 2 pages or 3.
 
GoldenAgeHero said:
useless rambling

I have no problem with stores doing sales, but in the realm of video games, if the developer isn't seeing a return for each sale then I have a problem with that. They're are tons of people who contribute nothing back to the companies who spent all the money to make the games, and that's not how the system is suppose to work. Giving the publishers a cut of what EB makes on used games sales isn't going to close them down, adn it's fair.

and for the love of god zenien everything depreciates in value no matter what it is.

Yeah but your analogy was ****.
lol.gif


and therefore makes the value of the item less then its original price, once again...this is taught in economics,

Yeah thanks for stating the obvious, I mean you'd think some people didn't already know that or something by the way you're talking, but if you've read everything people have been saying no one showed that ignorance, so...


yeah EA is'nt the only one around, lets see we have ubisoft,konami, rare,capcom,etc. they make plenty of money, and apparently have assloads more to keep them afloat.

Listing nothing but the conglomerate companies ftw? Oh yeah, the big publishers have money to keep them afloat, thanks for that shatteringly concise insight into the economics of the video game industry, truely we are smarter for having listened to you.

its not our fault atari is going bankrupt, they have no ****in worthy franchises, that even makes them worth buying.

Well Atari's problem is more in cost control, but we're diverging here. If you only can cite Atari as an example of a company with Financial issues, then you don't really understand the scope of the issue.


and amidst all your *****ing of companies not getting any profit, where they **** are they hunh?

"Hunh"? WTF?
lol.gif


i dont see them biatching, about the subject.

Yeah because they've only been *****ing about it for a while, and Nintendo and Sony have only repeatedly tried to take the sale of used games sales to court over the past ten years. And all the companies I'm talking about thzt ran into financial problems are either shut down, bought up. Y'know, following basic ecinomics of what happens when their games (particularly in the PC space) are pirated to hell, or sold used a ton with sales that would of otherwise been putting money back to the developer.

like i said if companies wanted to see some profit they should charge the stores and sites such as amazon and half.com for fees. you see how easy and logical this sounds zenien compared to your nonsense?

"Wah wah wah! I don't like the idea of used games sales having some monitored aspect that allows the companies that spent the money to get a return"

Either it could be a policy changes in the stores or it could be some form of much more open version of what Sony is suggesting.

And your comment about charging the stores and such for fees is exactly the avenue I was alluding to Genius.
lol.gif


Sorry, did I offend you by saying "Oportunistic cheapskate"?
lol.gif
I mean that's so great of you to get pissed off at me using that terminology and going on this long rant about the nature of the price drop spuring sales with stores and retail and thinking that I don't GET that? Ignoring for a moment that I wasn't argueing the validity of the price dropping tactic at all and that it's actually the context of the sales and the infastructure of the retail chain that ultimatetly decides the unseen 'morality' of consumer purchase.
 
GoldenAgeHero said:
yeah, go look in the justice society of America thread in the comics forum, then click on dc comics. whenyou find the thread, go to the last page and click back at least 2 pages or 3.

Tight thanks man.
 
Zenien said:
I have no problem with stores doing sales, but in the realm of video games, if the developer isn't seeing a return for each sale then I have a problem with that. They're are tons of people who contribute nothing back to the companies who spent all the money to make the games, and that's not how the system is suppose to work. Giving the publishers a cut of what EB makes on used games sales isn't going to close them down, adn it's fair.

thats the problem with your logic, the video game realm is not ****ing different from any business out there nor is it special. Which is probably the bumbest thought process I've ever read. tons of clothing/apparel are donated to the red cross and salvation army, does that mean the original manufactures should charge the person recieving the donated clothing? because afterall theyre not seeing a profit that tons of cheap labor help get made.

Yeah but your analogy was ****.
lol.gif


prove it.



Yeah thanks for stating the obvious, I mean you'd think some people didn't already know that or something by the way you're talking, but if you've read everything people have been saying no one showed that ignorance, so...

no one but you *****e. thats why my post was directed towards you.




Listing nothing but the conglomerate companies ftw? Oh yeah, the big publishers have money to keep them afloat, thanks for that shatteringly concise insight into the economics of the video game industry, truely we are smarter for having listened to you.

no, just you. i saved whatever amount of brain cells you had left.



Well Atari's problem is more in cost control, but we're diverging here. If you only can cite Atari as an example of a company with Financial issues, then you don't really understand the scope of the issue.

really? are you a cost anaylst? have you seen there accounts? do you work for them?




"Hunh"? WTF?
lol.gif




Yeah because they've only been *****ing about it for a while, and Nintendo and Sony have only repeatedly tried to take the sale of used games sales to court over the past ten years. And all the companies I'm talking about thzt ran into financial problems are either shut down, bought up. Y'know, following basic ecinomics of what happens when their games (particularly in the PC space) are pirated to hell, or sold used a ton with sales that would of otherwise been putting money back to the developer.

yet EA, Ubisoft, capcom, konami, have success....i wonder why? could it be because of thier best selling franchises? and for every company that goes out of busniess, another one pops up. if the used game industry is such a trouble maker why are more game development studios still popping up zenien?

A company either has what it takes to be successful or not,plain and simple. thats the risk of starting up a busniess zenien,not all companies are guarenteed success, and the gaming industry is no exception to that rule.




"Wah wah wah! I don't like the idea of used games sales having some monitored aspect that allows the companies that spent the money to get a return"

Either it could be a policy changes in the stores or it could be some form of much more open version of what Sony is suggesting.

And your comment about charging the stores and such for fees is exactly the avenue I was alluding to Genius.
lol.gif


key word alluded, you by no means mentioned anything about it dumbass.

Sorry, did I offend you by saying "Oportunistic cheapskate"?
lol.gif
I mean that's so great of you to get pissed off at me using that terminology and going on this long rant about the nature of the price drop spuring sales with stores and retail and thinking that I don't GET that? Ignoring for a moment that I wasn't argueing the validity of the price dropping tactic at all and that it's actually the context of the sales and the infastructure of the retail chain that ultimatetly decides the unseen 'morality' of consumer purchase.


oh no you did'nt offend me, i will continue to buy used games.:)
my problem is that you fail to even mention such info, when it comes to posting your ignorant posts, not only that but you actually contradicted yourself by posting such a comment. such as the one below



btw zenien congratulations on condradicting yourself, repeatedly you've been saying that you'll wait for the ps3 to drop in price....well are'nt you being an opportunistic cheapskate?..................oh the irony


..........
 
thats the problem with your logic, the video game realm is not ****ing different from any business out there nor is it special. Which is probably the bumbest thought process I've ever read. tons of clothing/apparel are donated to the red cross and salvation army, does that mean the original manufactures should charge the person recieving the donated clothing? because afterall theyre not seeing a profit that tons of cheap labor help get made.

Maybe you're just slow but the digital medium has some special rules, and yet again your analogy is flawed. See for things like PC games and Movies, you're not suppose to resell them, or duplicate them right? Well how far do you think movies and PC games deviate from Console games? No much, their all under the digitial entertainment banner which is a bit different then buying your clothes second hand.

Publishers, movie makers, developers, don't like a marked down version of their product being re-sold 7 times on store shelfs without them seeing any money from it.

prove it.

Already did, go back and read some.

really? are you a cost anaylst? have you seen there accounts? do you work for them?

Amateur. No. No. But I can tell you that looking at their Q1 financial statements, the reason their losing so mcuh money is because their costs are astronomically higher then the revenue they are generating, hene a cost control problem.

It's pretty simple.

yet EA, Ubisoft, capcom, konami, have success....i wonder why? could it be because of thier best selling franchises? and for every company that goes out of busniess, another one pops up.

Really? Show me some proof that the rate of closure, obsorbtion and mergers are at a 1:1 ratio with the formation of new studios.

if the used game industry is such a trouble maker why are more game development studios still popping up zenien?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think you know jack **** about the trends in the industry, why don't you suprise me?

key word alluded, you by no means mentioned anything about it dumbass.

OHHH NOOO! Yeah Keyword alluded to, dumbass, meaning I basically made it a clear impression without saying it and you were too stupid to pick up on it.

oh no you did'nt offend me, i will continue to buy used games.

That's an odd jump to make, considering I highly doubt offending you over using the term Cheapskate would have had a direct influence over your purchasing of used games... but whatever works for your 'special' brand of logic.

my problem is that you fail to even mention such info, when it comes to posting your ignorant posts, not only that but you actually contradicted yourself by posting such a comment. such as the one below

This should be good.

btw zenien congratulations on condradicting yourself, repeatedly you've been saying that you'll wait for the ps3 to drop in price....well are'nt you being an opportunistic cheapskate?..................oh the irony

Yeah pretty much, you have a point...? How does this 'contradict' anything I've said, I do dare you to go on. I love how you think you've caught me in some sort of lie here, were you dropped on your head as a child? The context of waiting for a price drop on a game console that costs 500-600 dollars is totally different from buying a used game the distribution of the wealth from that sale is TOTALLY different, for one, and I never said I wasn't an oportunistic cheapskate, only that in the regards of used games I don't buy them USED. I've waited for price drops on games before.
lol.gif
 
Isn't this illegal to sell someone else's games without their permission :confused:
 
Isn't that what this entitlement system is doing if we don't play our games for a certain amount of time?
 
Huh? :confused:

Can you pull out the paragraph in question? :confused:
 
hippie_hunter said:
Isn't that what this entitlement system is doing if we don't play our games for a certain amount of time?
Nonono. If you want to let it collect dust and not be used, that's fine. But if you figure you're never gonna play it again, this is a way to 'let' you sell it away and get a little bit of money (read:Entitlements) back for it.


And I think the clothing analogy works.

How about cars? When someone sells a car back to a dealership, or does a trade-in, it's exaclty the same. The dealership gets the profit for it by selling that again, not the manufacturer.


Imagine I had a Dodge Neon. Only I can drive this car, nobody else. If a friend wanted to borrow it for a day, they'd not be allowed to unless they bought it off me.

So I decide I want to sell it to my friend. I really want $8k, but I can't set my own price: Dodge will. So we have to contact Dodge and hear from them how much it has to be sold for. Let's pretend they say it's worth $10k. So even though I really only want to charge my friend $8k, I HAVE to charge them $10k. But wait! In the end, I only get $7k of that transaction, while the other $3k goes back to Dodge to keep. Oh, and that $7k is not in cash, it's in Dodge Gift Certificates, where I can only use the credit to go towards a new Dodge vehicle or maybe some Dodge parts.


I'm not sure car owners would like that very much...
 
WTF?! So no more rentals, no more borrowing games from friends, and no more used games/ trade-in games for cash?! SONY is shooting itself on the foot here... I think The PS3 is taking Zenien's sig a bit too seriously...
 
Gammy79 said:
If this is true, smart people will not buy a Ps3.


INDEED........BUT THERE ARE 100'S OF MILLIONS OF STUPID PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET.......AND THAT'S THE DEMOGRAPHIC 'SONY' IS AFTER. :o
 
THWIP* said:
INTERESTING RUMOR. COULD BE TRUE......SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE SOMETHING 'SONY' WOULD DO. :down

Can't wait to see how Zenien justifies this. The number of possible PS3 returns after the first week of release just went up if this is true
 
So people that don't have the internet can't play the games they buy?
 
Zenien said:
The idea is this:

1) You buy a game. Sony makes money.

2) You sell a game to GameStop right now, and they give you some money, spendable at GameStop, or if you choose, cash. You make money.

3) GameStop sells that game to somebody else. GameStop makes money.

Sony essentially is replacing step 2 and 3 here with one nice little condensed step.

2b) You sell a game to a friend. Your friend does not pay you in cash. He puts the game in his system, and the system checks for authorization. If you have authorized the sale, your friend pays a used game price (to Sony) of which you recieve a percentage in entitlement points (spendable only to Sony). Sony makes money x 2.

If you are now thinking “well when I play some games I will not be on-line with the console” to side-step the problem then think again as it is not such a difficult proposition to cache data on a permanent storage device included with every console ( I am looking at you PLAYSTATION 3’s HDD).

The Content of the disc cannot be accessed by the user console unless, upon completion of the “registration” process mentioned earlier in the article, the Host Server submits access permission.

The DISC UNIQUE ID 230 uniquely identifies the disc 110. The contents of the disc 110 cannot be played on the user console 115 or other devices without access permission for the disc 110.

You know what I love?

No matter how bad the decision, no matter how ****ting in the face of the customers, no matter how earth shatteringly bad and ill thought out the idea is, zenien will ALWAYS defend sony to the death.


I don't know about you, but if I love a game, I share it with friends so they can see what the fuss is about, and if they like it enough, they buy it.

I don't know about you, but I found it highly useful to return unwanted games in return for discounts towards new titles. I am not rich, and being able to offload games I no longer wanted was a godsend. The second hand trade in my game store let me discover many hidden gems.

If I never had that option, I would have never discovered fable, Jade empire, or many other great games I overlooked first time (and to counter your argument that its useless and only benefits the ''greedy'' (ironic seeing as how you love the greediest coporation out there) stores, I will now buy the sequels of both on day one)


What's the betting 99% of PS3 owners wont even know about this little stipulation when they break the big black box out of it's packaging?

But then again, anyone dumb enough to buy a PS3 after everything else kinda deserves this imo.
 
Horrorfan said:
What's the betting 99% of PS3 owners wont even know about this little stipulation when they break the big black box out of it's packaging?

As I say I look forward to seeing the number of PS3 returns after the first week
 
THWIP* said:
INTERESTING RUMOR. COULD BE TRUE......SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE SOMETHING 'SONY' WOULD DO. :down
I'm not bothered on the whole. I always buy my games new.

However, it does pose a bit of a problem when it comes to borrowing other's games, which I do frequently.
 

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