Exposed - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[NHawk19]

Hulk if your chair at work has wheels here's a simply demonstration using a push instead of a pull.

Lift your feet off the ground and push against your desk. Typically you'll move because your desk has more mass than you do. Now reset it up but place a pen on your desk and push. Then pen moves because it has a much smaller mass than you.

Now you've exerted a lot of force on the desk more so than the pen similar to what Clark would have done to the Helicopter. Now reset it and push harder. You'll move away faster. In the same way the Helicopter has more mass than Clark. Even if he would have pulled harder he would have moved towards the helicopter.

 

[AllThingsComic]

LOL goodmorning all, everyone is overanalyzing this. Superman is not real so there will never evereverever be proof on either side. Just love the show please, thank you. I love you all! lol

 

[NHawk19]

LOL goodmorning all, everyone is overanalyzing this. Superman is not real so there will never evereverever be proof on either side. Just love the show please, thank you. I love you all! lol

Acctually . . .

Another proof is if you take a rubberband and a pen. Place the pen in the rubber band and stretch it. Now if you release the pen it will move. However if you release both sides at the same time, the rubberband will snap to the pen.

The band is execting the superforce, but the pen has more mass. Hence the band moves to the pen.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

^ Helicopter's Upward Force
| 50,000 #'s
|
|
|

| Superman's weight
| 200#'s
\/


ugh, ok I was joking before but. . . Since Helicopter Upward Force is greater than Superman's weight he would be lifted off the ground.

this example is flawed as well. It would be appropriate if A) Superman was just standing there and not putting up resistance, or B) If it was a normal human who's force was = their weight. But with Superman his force doesnt equal his weight, when he's pulling back at full strength. It's sort of a mind screw to get your head around it, because it basically goes against the properties of everything on Earth, but that's how you need to look at it. It's be more like this:

^ Helicopter's upward force
| 50,000 #'s
|
|


| Clark's downward force
| 6,000,000 #'s
V

 

[AgentPat]

Hulk if your chair at work has wheels here's a simply demonstration using a push instead of a pull.

Lift your feet off the ground and push against your desk. Typically you'll move because your desk has more mass than you do. Now reset it up but place a pen on your desk and push. Then pen moves because it has a much smaller mass than you.

Now superglue (yuk yuk, get it? Superglue? Heh, I crack myself up sometimes LOL) the pen to the desk and perform the same experiment. Push (or pull) the pen. Aint gonna move, is it? That's cause it's *attached* to the desk, which has greater weight and mass than you in the chair - which also has less friction coefficient because you're on wheels.

I don't think I can explain this any other way, but regardless of strength, if Clark can't hold something to prevent himself from being pulled off the ground, he's gonna go air born if he doesn't let go of the tether. He HAS the strength to pull it out of the sky, but only if he has something to pull against in the opposite direction. His own mass isn't enough. He has to pull against something that's immovable - like a pen superglued to the roof. LOL

Gotta luv a good geek conversation about science and comic book characters.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Hulk if your chair at work has wheels here's a simply demonstration using a push instead of a pull.

Lift your feet off the ground and push against your desk. Typically you'll move because your desk has more mass than you do. Now reset it up but place a pen on your desk and push. Then pen moves because it has a much smaller mass than you.

Now you've exerted a lot of force on the desk more so than the pen similar to what Clark would have done to the Helicopter. Now reset it and push harder. You'll move away faster. In the same way the Helicopter has more mass than Clark. Even if he would have pulled harder he would have moved towards the helicopter.

but how hard i push is irrelevant, as I'll never outweight the desk, and since I'm not kryptonian, I cant exert a force greater than my weight which would be the only way the desk is going to move away from me Using that logic, Clark should never even be able to throw a car since it outweighs him...

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I don't think I can explain this any other way, but regardless of strength, if Clark can't hold something to prevent himself from being pulled off the ground, he's gonna go air born if he doesn't let go of the tether. He HAS the strength to pull it out of the sky, but only if he has something to pull against in the opposite direction. His own mass isn't enough.

Gotta luv a good geek conversation about science and comic book characters.

Pat, you keep repeating that and making the same error in logic. I agree Clark's own mass isnt enough, but unlike pretty much all things on earth, the force Clark can generate is MUCH greater than his mass/weight. You have to sort of think outside of the normal physics realm of weight being equal to force because with Clark that goes out the window Really in that situation you have two forces acting on one another, and the greater one is going to win. The greater of two opposing forces always wins.

 

[NHawk19]

but how hard i push is irrelevant, as I'll never outweight the desk, and since I'm not kryptonian, I cant exert a force greater than my weight which would be the only way the desk is going to move away from me

Ding Dong correct. Just as Clark will never out weigh the helicopter.

So who's going to move first when Clark exerts a force him or the helicopter?

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Ding Dong correct. Just as Clark will never out weigh the helicopter.

yes but you conveniently didnt highlight my next sentence which is the X factor in the whole thing........ If I could exert a force greater than my own weight and that of the desk, it would go flying and kill my boss. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing mind you

 

[NHawk19]

Acctually you exert a force greater than your own weight when you do a pull up. So now see my question in the edit.

 

[avidreader]

Well I just learnt more about physics than I ever did in High School and I've been married to a mechanical engineer for 20 years. I guess I havent learnt much from him either.

After reading it all - Hulk's Superman theories make more sense to me in this situation than those of the laws of Newton's physics.

 

[NHawk19]

^ Helicopter's upward force
| 50,000 #'s
|
|


| Clark's downward force
| 6,000,000 #'s
V

This would only hold true if he was ANCHORED TO THE BUILDING which he wasnt.

Think of it like this as well. Since there is no Friction when clark puts the force on the line his

F=6 million #'s
Mass = 200 (mass units)

when you apply F=Ma

he would accelerate towards the helicopter at a rate of a = (6 million)/200

For the Helicopter to move first Clark would have to have an M greater than the helicopter. The only way to achieve this would be to anchor himself to the building.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

This would only hold true if he was ANCHORED TO THE BUILDING which he wasnt.

but Clark doesnt need to be anchored to the building since he can exert that much force all by himself. Like I said, it's a mind screw to think of something exerting 27,000 times the force of it's own weight all by itself, because there's nothing in real life to point to, but that's in effect what Clark can do.

Fun debate though....

 

[NHawk19]

but Clark doesnt need to be anchored to the building since he can exert that much force all by himself. Like I said, it's a mind screw to think of something exerting 27,000 times the force of it's own weight all by itself, because there's nothing in real life to point to, but that's in effect what Clark can do.

Fun debate though....

It's fun. . . though I think it would be easier to demonstrate in person.

 

[AgentPat]

This would only hold true if he was ANCHORED TO THE BUILDING which he wasnt.

Bingo!

Avid, pose the question to your hubby. He will give you the same answer NHawk and I have been saying. You HAVE to have something to pull (or push) against in order to exert a force greater than your own body weight. Otherwise, YOU will move verses the object you're trying to set into motion (or stop from its motion, as the case might be.)

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Bingo!

Avid, pose the question to your hubby. He will give you the same answer NHawk and I have been saying. You HAVE to have something to pull (or push) against in order to exert a force greater than your own body weight. Otherwise, YOU will move verses the object you're trying to set into motion (or stop from its motion, as the case might be.)

Yes if you're a NORMAL HUMAN or other earthly object, that's 100% correct. But we know Clark can generate tremendous amounts of force with his body that far exceed anything that you and I could do. I'm not arguing physics as they apply to normal human beings, but Clark can run at light speed, throw cars, and generate enough force to leap into the air and grab hold of a nuclear weapon. The difference in force between him pulling and the helicopter pulling is so one sided in his favor.... Not to mention the copter is airborne and generally inclined to go downward towards him from the effects of gravity..

 

[NHawk19]

Yes if you're a NORMAL HUMAN or other earthly object, that's 100% correct. But we know Clark can generate tremendous amounts of force with his body that far exceed anything that you and I could do. I'm not arguing physics as they apply to normal human beings, but Clark can run at light speed, throw cars, and generate enough force to leap into the air and grab hold of a nuclear weapon.

Are you assuming he can fly or hold a position simply because he wants? Because Pat and I are arguing from the stand point that Clark hasn't yet learned to fly or hold a position in space against a force.

 

[AgentPat]

but Clark doesnt need to be anchored to the building since he can exert that much force all by himself.

Yes, he CAN exert that much force, and then some. He's Superman for Pete's sake. LMAO!! But physics is still physics. He can crush things against his own body, he can pull things apart using two hands, he can lift heavy objects. In the latter example, all the pressure of his own weight and the object he's holding push down on the ground he's standing on. So if he's standing in mud or sand, what's gonna happen? The weight over his head will push him into the ground (harmlessly, of course.) Now reverse the net forces. Up, up and away. There goes Clark.

There has to be an anchor of equal or greater mass to brace against.

And again, once he can FLY, physics goes out the window. Buh bye, physics. The force keeping him in the air is his own will. That's his anchor.

<- Loves Clark Kent.

 

[AgentPat]

I just thought of another example. Clark's super strong, right? Then why did he need to HOLD onto that rebar in the floor of Lex's mansion to keep from being sucked into the Phantom Zone? He should have just been able to walk away from it? Why couldn't he? 'Cause the suction was greater than his own weight, and would have pulled him in if he didn't have anything to hold onto. We can't argue that the PZ had overwhelming pulling capacity either because it would have just ripped the rebar from the floor since Clark was hanging onto it. Clark's a LOT stronger than that puny piece of metal. This is where "net force" is factored in. Ultimately, it's the rebar that kept Clark from being pulled into the PZ. (Let's ignore whatever little burst of force (flight?) Clark did to get out of the PZ's reach.)

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

well when we start getting into the physics of the Phantom Zone that's when the debate goes to pot, because now you're leaving thr realm of Earth physics..... That being said I believe that the Phantom Zone has some special power in regards to Kryptonians, but I'll have to go verify that one in my nerd encyclopedia...

 

[darkzombiemutt]

If Superman has the ability to push his body toward the sky, he most definately has the ability to "anchor" himself down

 

[NHawk19]

If Superman has the ability to push his body toward the sky, he most definately has the ability to "anchor" himself down

Granted but we're not dealing with a full fledged Supes we're dealing with Clark and he hasnt figured out flight yet.

Or does the fact that he was "anchored" mean that he has even though the f/x dont indicate anything.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

technically he could just want himself to do it and not even realize it. Sort of an involuntary reflex.

 

[NHawk19]

technically he could just want himself to do it and not even realize it. Sort of an involuntary reflex.

Finally . . . . .

If that's the case then this is where the physics would go out the window.

 

[AgentPat]

...Or does the fact that he was "anchored" mean that he has even though the f/x dont indicate anything.

aHAH! Now if THAT is the case, buh bye Physics 101.

Yes, once Clark has the ability to "will" himself into the air, he would also be able to "will" himself stationary, and nothing... NOTHING is gonna move him. Pulling the chopper out of the air would be a no brainer at that point.