Fant4stic Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 31

[batdude]

I don't know which of them decided to compare powers to disabilities but whoever did is a moron. It's the exact opposite situation. Not to mention offensive,

 

[batdude]

So far, the characters that haven't had on screen speaking moments are the Thing and Doom after their transformations. I really think that if these 2 primarily digital characters don't work on the screen, then no matter how entertaining Jordan is as the Torch, he won't be able to save movie any more than Chris Evans performance 'saved' the 2 Story films.

Yeah, if the Thing doesn't work, it will spoil the movie, The first movies figured that out at least.

 

[Flint Marko]

I liked the first few promo shots of the Thing. Not so much when we see him in motion.

 

[Eddie]

I'm not so sure ANY of the extended effects shots (Thing included) will look great in motion. It really can't be said enough, this film has a completely different primary visual effects team now (Weta) then it did when they filmed it (OTOY). That shouldn't have had to happen.

 

[nogolf33]

I've got a concern that the Thing won't be able to talk. Did he make a sound when he dropped from the plane? He seems stiff and slow which isn't his comic book style. Which leads to ...

Doom - Since they are recycling the clip that has been out for months, maybe there isn't much more to show. He just shows up and noone sees him move. Like a horror movie about a satanic doll or something. At the end of the movie he turns his head... just a little.


And he glitters.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

I agree in regards to being a fan and not being happy. But GA now is waaaay bigger than gearing towards the die hard fans. Who make up a small percentage of the total people seeing this movie. Of course they shouldn't make a movie and ostracize the fans but business wise it's also smarter to try and appeal to every person out there and obviously that's the route Fox is going. No one person will be happy. Just like some people are saying Marvel doing what they're doing to F4 and X-Men is good business but they're ostracizing their loyal fans who read their comics. At the end of the day Fox and Marvel need to make smart business decisions and it looks like the ones getting screwed in the end are the loyal and die hard fans.

Proponents of this film keep saying this, but I don't really see it. The tone and creative direction they chose don't really lend itself well to the GA, and the marketing (or lack of it) isn't ubiquitous enough to draw the attention of any audience except that one it's actively ostracizing.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I don't know which of them decided to compare powers to disabilities but whoever did is a moron. It's the exact opposite situation. Not to mention offensive,

How is it offensive ? Like people with cool mutant powers comparing themselves to the struggle/discrimination of real minorities?

 

[Eddie]

The Thing will talk, but I do think they'll limit it. There was a rumor about Thing starting out with a reduced intellect after the transformation at one time...

Let's face it, he's going to be the Rock Hulk. With the recycled Juggernaut plane drop from DoFP that Fox changed last minute thrown in for good measure.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Proponents of this film keep saying this, but I don't really see it. The tone and creative direction they chose don't really lend itself well to the GA, and the marketing (or lack of it) isn't ubiquitous enough to draw the attention of any audience except that one it's actively ostracizing.

What movie's tone and creative direction does this remind you of that failed with the GA?

 

[Paradox1]

I'm not so sure ANY of the extended effects shots (Thing included) will look great in motion. It really can't be said enough, this film has a completely different primary visual effects team now (Weta) then it did when they filmed it (OTOY). That shouldn't have had to happen.

One correction OTOY is not a special effects team it's just cloud like system for them to keep rendering times down.

 

[Eddie]

The effects were going to be done by a team using OTOY. They had to call in a Weta team. And spend an extra twenty million+. And reshoot some of the climax.

It's pretty safe to say the OTOY thing was a poor decision.

 

[Sleiek]

WETA has done impressive visual effects work. I think of them as the next ILM. They couldn't go wrong with choosing WETA.

 

[Eddie]

Oh they're great. No doubt there. They're not going to put out their best work when they're a last minute replacement for a failed experiment, though. It's also entirely possible the final product will be a patchwork quilt of different effects, what with the issues they had.

 

[Eddie]

Is the OTOY reading this thread an OTOY rep? If so, comments on the films "bumps along the road" a Fox exec mentioned?

 

[RAE072]

How is it offensive ? Like people with cool mutant powers comparing themselves to the struggle/discrimination of real minorities?

Using mutants as a metaphor for people born a certain, different way that they can't help and who struggle with being ostracized by outside groups is quite a bit different than comparing unique amazing powers/abilities gained through an accident to "disabilities."

Being able to ignite yourself on fire with no harm to yourself and fly after an accident is 100000000% different than being in a wheelchair and not being able to walk after an accident.

And yeah, it's pretty offensive to people with ACTUAL disabilities.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Using mutants as a metaphor for people born a certain, different way that they can't help and who struggle with being ostracized by outside groups is quite a bit different than comparing unique amazing powers/abilities gained through an accident to "disabilities."

Being able to ignite yourself on fire with no harm to yourself and fly after an accident is 100000000% different than being in a wheelchair and not being able to walk after an accident.

And yeah, it's pretty offensive to people with ACTUAL disabilities.

Since when did disabilities(born or accidental) mean people were incapable of doing fantastic things?

Dyslexia is considered a disability. One that requires training and help but doesn't negate the ability to do great things.

 

[RAE072]

Since when did disabilities(born or accidental) mean people were incapable of doing fantastic things?

Dyslexia is considered a disability. One that requires training and help but doesn't negate the ability to do great things.

Since when did I say any of that at all in my post?

But that's fine. Do that some more. Compare the ability to fly after an accident to people with actual disabilities like muscular dystrophy or blindness.

That's totally a cool thing to do.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Since when did I say any of that at all in my post?

But that's fine. Do that some more. Compare the ability to fly after an accident to people with actual disabilities like muscular dystrophy or blindness.

That's totally a cool thing to do.

So a beautiful redhead who can move things with her mind is equal to discrimination against Kaitlyn Jenner being herself but a legally blind artist who works with the disability should be offended?

ok.

 

[Sleiek]

Oh they're great. No doubt there. They're not going to put out their best work when they're a last minute replacement for a failed experiment, though. It's also entirely possible the final product will be a patchwork quilt of different effects, what with the issues they had.

I understand MPC and WETA are working on this movie, both excellent top tier VFX companies. I think Pixomondo is also involved. Are we certain that they ditched MPC and then brought WETA later on? I can't find any news on this.

If they are both working on it, then it is normal for many VFX movies.

 

[RAE072]

So a beautiful redhead who can move things with her mind is equal to discrimination against Kaitlyn Jenner being herself but a legally blind artist who works with the disability should be offended?

ok.

No? Because nobody compares mutant abilities with disabilities. Only that mutants have faced discrimination for being born differently from "normal" people, the same as minorities.

Whereas Michael B. Jordan and others compared the wonderful, FANTASTIC abilities/powers these people get after an accident to those of people with actual disabilities that hinder their life in some way. Because super powers don't hinder your life in the same way an actual disability would/might.

How you are not getting this is absolutely fascinating.

 

[Eddie]

WETA was not attached to this film until after principal photography finished. A substantial amount of money was also spent on improving the film after that happened, plus the planned 3D was pulled. We're talking over twenty million dollars being spent on this movie that weren't planned. It's safe to say there were issues with the effects.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

No? Because nobody compares mutant abilities with disabilities. Only that mutants have faced discrimination for being born differently from "normal" people, the same as minorities.

Whereas Michael B. Jordan and others compared the wonderful, FANTASTIC abilities/powers these people get after an accident to those of people with actual disabilities that hinder their life in some way. Because super powers don't hinder your life in the same way an actual disability would/might.

How you are not getting this is absolutely fascinating.

So you're saying white heterosexual males comic nerds don't identify with discrimination in Xmen for being picked on as nerds.

Or white heterosexual female nerds for being discriminated based on gender alone. Even though they are "normal".


it's only for minorities?

I am shocked. This is not me being facetious. I thought everyone identify with some forms of discrimination was key to the appeal.


I'm wrong. I thought a group of individuals banding together as a family to use their gifts (disabilities or not) wasn't a huge stretch/gravitational change of concept.

 

[Sithborg]

No? Because nobody compares mutant abilities with disabilities. Only that mutants have faced discrimination for being born differently from "normal" people, the same as minorities.

Whereas Michael B. Jordan and others compared the wonderful, FANTASTIC abilities/powers these people get after an accident to those of people with actual disabilities that hinder their life in some way. Because super powers don't hinder your life in the same way an actual disability would/might.

How you are not getting this is absolutely fascinating.

Powers under control, perhaps. But powers that you cannot control is just as easily thought of as curses. Which can be a metaphor for disabilities.

Pretty certain we have a quote of Reed saying "I just want to fix my friends".

 

[RAE072]

So you're saying white heterosexual males comic nerds don't identify with discrimination in Xmen for being picked on as nerds.

Or white heterosexual female nerds for being discriminated based on gender alone. Even though they are "normal".

it's only for minorities?

I am shocked. This is not me being facetious. I thought everyone identify with some forms of discrimination was key to the appeal.

I'm wrong. I thought a group of individuals banding together as a family to use their gifts (disabilities or not) wasn't a huge stretch/gravitational change of concept.

What the **** are you talking about?

You are all over the map buddy. Wow.

Pick a point and stick with it.

Powers under control, perhaps. But powers that you cannot control is just as easily thought of as curses. Which can be a metaphor for disabilities.

Can't wait to watch them do that and mope around for half an hour or more.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

What the **** are you talking about?

You are all over the map buddy. Wow.

Pick a point and stick with it.

Here you go buddy.

Point- Xmen is a story about facing discrimination. Not just for minorities. It's not supposed to be a perfect allegory for anyone.

FF is a dysfunctional family given powers. Even with the Thing being closest to feelings of real world disabilities. He is accepted and uses his power just like the rest.


Comics use imperfect allegories. Superman going from immigrant to illegal immigrant isn't breaking the character.


I feel bad for you 616 guys not getting your adaptation but you make it really hard to empathize as a fellow comic fan sometimes.