Fant4stic Fantastic Four 2?

[Darepool]

Hmmm. Not sure that's how it works.

 

[Big Bang]

The problem is that there is no way to avoid embarrassment.

Fox's choices:

1. Let the rights revert to Marvel. Suffer major embarrassment.
2. Make a new Fantastic Four film which is guaranteed to bomb. Suffer major embarrassment AND lose tens of millions of dollars.

Either way, Fox loses. There is no way in which Fox comes out of this looking good.

Agreed. There are far too many ways that Fox loses that just about no matter how you slice things it still boils down to that.

IMO, the only way Fox can get out of this situation is doing some kind of deal, but realistically it won't be anything like the Marvel/Sony deal. I could maybe see something play out where Fox agrees to part with FF to Marvel for $X, plus some kind of co-production deal. This could be the basis of the TV deal they've got going on now, whereas Marvel can show good faith in helping produce the various X shows with Fox, in a manner Fox did not have previously have the rights for. The deal for the FF could be contingent on the success of these shows. Maybe Fox is set to make most of the money off the advertising from those shows, providing them with some kind of ongoing revenue stream to justify the relinquishment of the FF rights (+ buyout fee). Obviously neither party will come out and disclose that information since any support for the shows would likely be artificial as fans would simply want to see the rights revert.

Just a bit of conjecture, but if there is anything I've learned from this crazy world of ours, is that there is always more to the story.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Agreed. There are far too many ways that Fox loses that just about no matter how you slice things it still boils down to that.

IMO, the only way Fox can get out of this situation is doing some kind of deal, but realistically it won't be anything like the Marvel/Sony deal. I could maybe see something play out where Fox agrees to part with FF to Marvel for $X, plus some kind of co-production deal. This could be the basis of the TV deal they've got going on now, whereas Marvel can show good faith in helping produce the various X shows with Fox, in a manner Fox did not have previously have the rights for. The deal for the FF could be contingent on the success of these shows. Maybe Fox is set to make most of the money off the advertising from those shows, providing them with some kind of ongoing revenue stream to justify the relinquishment of the FF rights (+ buyout fee). Obviously neither party will come out and disclose that information since any support for the shows would likely be artificial as fans would simply want to see the rights revert.

Just a bit of conjecture, but if there is anything I've learned from this crazy world of ours, is that there is always more to the story.

If I were Fox, it would be all about X-Men - that's their future. I'd be trying to make a deal to get something related to X-Men such as increased merchandise and a small cut of that merchandising.

If Marvel is willing to offer anything related to X-Men, Fox should snap it up.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Ultimately, it is a business and the business decision is simple.

X-Men movies make lots of money, so they should make more.
Fantastic Four movies lose lots of money, so they shouldn't make any more.

It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.

 

[Panacea]

Ultimately, it is a business and the business decision is simple.

X-Men movies make lots of money, so they should make more.
Fantastic Four movies lose lots of money, so they shouldn't make any more.

It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.

Well it does, because the deal will expire and they'll lose the rights if they don't make more.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Well it does, because the deal will expire and they'll lose the rights if they don't make more.

Lose the rights to make more films that lose millions of dollars? Wow! What a loss that would be!

It would be one thing if they could just sit on them forever, but they can't. So they have to lose millions of dollars to keep the rights to lose more millions of dollars in the future. That's horrible business.

 

[Panacea]

Lose the rights to make more films that lose millions of dollars? Wow! What a loss that would be!

Well it would be, if Fantastic Four films were inherently doomed to failure. Only one of the three has bombed so far though. It's clearly a valuable property whether Fox has gotten it right as yet or not.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Well it would be, if Fantastic Four films were inherently doomed to failure. Only one of the three has bombed so far.

Two of the three. And all three were garbage and destroyed the audience for any future Fantastic Four film.

 

[Panacea]

Two of the three. And all three were garbage and destroyed the audience for any future Fantastic Four film.

No, one of the three. Rise of the Silver Surfer broke even, just.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Well it would be, if Fantastic Four films were inherently doomed to failure. Only one of the three has bombed so far though. It's clearly a valuable property whether Fox has gotten it right as yet or not.

Speaking as one FF fan, I'll never pay to see another FF film from Fox. It's hard to make money when your primary customers have no interest in buying your product.

A new Fantastic Four film will be a disaster from the day it's announced. Fans will hate it from the start and spread their vitriol across the internet. No talented director would be foolish enough to sign on. No talented actors will risk their careers.

 

[Aztec]

Speaking as one FF fan, I'll never pay to see another FF film from Fox. It's hard to make money when your primary customers have no interest in buying your product.

A new Fantastic Four film will be a disaster from the day it's announced. Fans will hate it from the start and spread their vitriol across the internet. No talented director would be foolish enough to sign on. No talented actors will risk their careers.

Exactly. The venom would be epic and doom (no pun intended) it right from the start.

Which makes me wonder why with an X-Verse riding a cautiously optimistic high why they don't simply just sell to Disney and make some quick cash?

 

[Panacea]

Which makes me wonder why with an X-Verse riding a cautiously optimistic high why they don't simply just sell to Disney and make some quick cash?

Because X-Men has consistently earned Fox hundreds of millions of dollars. They have absolutely no reason to sell unless Marvel comes in with a mega offer, which they themselves have little reason to do.

 

[Zarex]

No, one of the three. Rise of the Silver Surfer broke even, just.

Nope. Movie studios don't put franchises on ice for 7 years unless they've lost serious coin. ROTSS earned approximately $132M domestically and $157M foreign (no China) for a net of approximately $129M (based on a 50% take on domestic and 40% foreign). That's a million dollar loss BEFORE you factor in marketing costs, which can run over half the production budget, and Marvel's take. It wasn't FFINO, but FOX took a bath on ROTSS.

Add in the fact that FOX is doing worse on every installment, there's not a chance in heck they'll put another FF film into production, which would be more expensive than the last unless they put the origin on-screen for the third time. The numbers simply don't work.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Lose the rights to make more films that lose millions of dollars? Wow! What a loss that would be!

It would be one thing if they could just sit on them forever, but they can't. So they have to lose millions of dollars to keep the rights to lose more millions of dollars in the future. That's horrible business.

Which is why this is obviously about emotion and/or a grudge. No sane studio would even contemplate another FF movie. Any writer or director who walked into their office with the idea would be laughed out of the building.

Heck....I can't imagine any studio that would have made the 3rd FF movie. It just made no business sense. Businesses don't fight to retain the rights to things that don't make them money...they just don't do that.

 

[Dasher10]

Why is this thread still ongoing? This film will hopefully never happen... nor will a reboot at Fox.

 

[Panacea]

Nope. Movie studios don't put franchises on ice for 7 years unless they've lost serious coin. ROTSS earned approximately $132M domestically and $157M foreign (no China) for a net of approximately $129M (based on a 50% take on domestic and 40% foreign). That's a million dollar loss BEFORE you factor in marketing costs, which can run over half the production budget, and Marvel's take. It wasn't FFINO, but FOX took a bath on ROTSS.

It also made about $70m from DVD sales.

Fantastic Four is a valuable asset. Fox have been getting diminishing returns because the quality they've put out has steadily gotten worse, not because people don't want to see the Fantastic Four on the big screen. They've already made it pretty clear that they intend to try again at some point and I see no reason why they wouldn't. Well, unless Disney comes in with a big offer of course...

 

[Aztec]

Because X-Men has consistently earned Fox hundreds of millions of dollars. They have absolutely no reason to sell unless Marvel comes in with a mega offer, which they themselves have little reason to do.

You misunderstood. I was referring to the FF.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It also made about $70m from DVD sales.

Fantastic Four is a valuable asset. Fox have been getting diminishing returns because the quality they've put out has steadily gotten worse, not because people don't want to see the Fantastic Four on the big screen. They've already made it pretty clear that they intend to try again at some point and I see no reason why they wouldn't. Well, unless Disney comes in with a big offer of course...

And because the quality has been steadily getting worse and because the studio actively gave the fans and characters the middle finger throughout production of the last film, Fox has lost the ability to make money from the property.

Even if Fant4stic had been a better film with better reviews, it would have done poorly at the box office because of the way the studio treated the property and the fans. And with Fant4stic, Fox's relationship with their key demographic (Fantastic Four fans) went from bad to far, far worse. Fans aren't just ambivalent to the idea of Fox making another FF film, they absolutely HATE that idea.

I don't know if anyone at Fox is really foolish enough to believe they have a chance to make money with another film, but if they do, they're in for an extremely rude awakening on the day they officially make that announcement.

Fantastic Four is not a valuable asset in Fox's hands.

 

[Panacea]

What the fans want is almost entirely irrelevant. The Fans™ make up an absolutely minuscule proportion of the viewing audience and if a movie relied on them to succeed it would be dead before it even opened up in theatres. The idea that the execs at Fox, a company with a track record of making profitable superhero movies, is going to just up and decide that they're too inept to make money from the Fantastic Four IP and so should just let the rights revert to Marvel is naive in the extreme. There is zero chance of that happening.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Non fans hate what Fox does with the property as well, if they didn't Fan4stick would have pulled a Transformers and succeeded anyway.

There is no money in Fox keeping Fan4stick. That was proven in 2015. I don't expect them to hand it over but letting the rights revert back after 7 years? I can definitely see that happening.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

What the fans want is almost entirely irrelevant. The Fans™ make up an absolutely minuscule proportion of the viewing audience and if a movie relied on them to succeed it would be dead before it even opened up in theatres. The idea that the execs at Fox, a company with a track record of making profitable superhero movies, is going to just up and decide that they're too inept to make money from the Fantastic Four IP and so should just let the rights revert to Marvel is naive in the extreme. There is zero chance of that happening.

Fox Management has done some really dumb things, but even I find it hard to believe they're this dumb.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Non fans hate what Fox does with the property as well, if they didn't Fan4stick would have pulled a Transformers and succeeded anyway.

There is no money in Fox keeping Fan4stick. That was proven in 2015. I don't expect them to hand it over but letting the rights revert back after 7 years? I can definitely see that happening.

Yeah, if not for the fans, who is the other mythical group of people waiting to line up for a Fox FF film and making the property valuable?

If the only criteria is that Fox management needs "superheroes" and then they can work their magic and make a profitable film from them, there are thousands of superheroes they could license.

The Fantastic Four had value 12 years ago (before Fox started ruining them) because there were FANS of the property that wanted to see them on the big screen.

FANS (both casual and hard-core) are what make Superman more valuable than the Red Tornado or Batman more valuable than Savage Dragon.

The idea that Fox can simply take a property like Fantastic Four (after they've sucked the life out of) it and make a profitable movie in the face of extreme animosity from the core audience is ludicrous.

 

[Zarex]

This reminds me of the arguments we heard on this board before and after Fant4stic wormed its way into our hearts way back in the summer of 2015.

BF (Before FFINO) - What the fans want is irrelevant. The "fans" make an absolutely miniscule proportion of the viewing audience. If the general audience likes what they see - and the trailer has an awful lot of likes on YouTube! - then Fant4stic will be a big hit. Then, watch out! I can't wait to see Ben Grimm and Logan together on the big screen!

AF (After FFINO) - The fans had it out for the film from day one! Their irrational hatred toward FOX Studios poisoned the environment for a hard sci-fi interpretation of the Fantastic Four. Which, just so you know, was a solid interpretation of the Ultimate FF in the comics. But the Fantastic Four fans killed it without giving it a chance. Have fun with your stupid baby MCU movies!

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

This reminds me of the arguments we heard on this board before and after Fant4stic wormed its way into our hearts way back in the summer of 2015.

BF (Before FFINO) - What the fans want is irrelevant. The "fans" make an absolutely miniscule proportion of the viewing audience. If the general audience likes what they see - and the trailer has an awful lot of likes on YouTube! - then Fant4stic will be a big hit. Then, watch out! I can't wait to see Ben Grimm and Logan together on the big screen!

AF (After FFINO) - The fans had it out for the film from day one! Their irrational hatred toward FOX Studios poisoned the environment for a hard sci-fi interpretation of the Fantastic Four. Which, just so you know, was a solid interpretation of the Ultimate FF in the comics. But the Fantastic Four fans killed it without giving it a chance. Have fun with your stupid baby MCU movies!

I was thinking something similar. "Haven't we heard this before?"

And Fox's big mistake with the last film is they not only made a terrible film, but they made a terrible film that was so different from the comics that even fans wouldn't go.

I paid for the Corman film on VHS and I would have paid to see a poorly reviewed Fantastic Four film that looked close to FF, but Fox lost that good will with their last effort.

I'll never pay to see another Fox Fantastic Four film again.

 

[Hypestyle]

Tentatively, I can see Fox trying to insert select FF main characters into some of the near-future X-Men features, though I don't know if that counts towards keeping the redevelopment rights.

Doesn't Neue Constantin and/or Chris Columbus's 1492 Productions still have some legal claim over feature rights? This would have to be dealt with as well.