FF2 will look rather basic compared to Spidey 3

[highguard]

Actually Shrek opens this Friday(the 18th).
Then Pirates 3 is next Friday (the 25th).

It looks like Spidey 3 is going to end up way up there on the all-time list, which I have mixed feelings about.
On the one hand it guarantees that more Spidey films and more superhero films will get made. On the other hand, I fear that such success, in light of the film's overall mediocrity, will encourage studios to meddle freely and churn out even more truncated versions of our beloved characters than we've already suffered.
To me, The Hulk, Daredevil, X-Men and Fantastic Four all strayed tragically from the spirit of their comics counterparts. I enjoyed them as best I could (some quite a bit), but couldn't help lamenting what could have been.
Spider-man is the only Marvel property to significantly avoid these creative pitfalls. To me, Spider-man 1 & 2 feel much more like a Marvel comic come to life than anything else thus far. I came to Spidey 3 prepared for more of the same, and was very let down, much to my surprise. And the fact that I'm far from alone tells me that, at the very least, this new film has problems the previous two did not.

As for Qwerty's assertion that it's becoming "hip" to hate on Spider-man, I don't buy that.
It's not like there was a Spider-man backlash already brewing. Fans were really taken by surprise by this movie's problems, and much of the backlash I've read is tinged with sadness. I certainly take no pleasure in criticizing what I consider a sub-par sequel in a series I really love.

My hope is that Spider-man 4 will see a return to form.
And I still want to see Sam Raimi at the helm. I just hope he'll never listen to freakin' Avi Arad ever again.

To bring this back to Fantastic Four, I'm hoping audiences are much more satisfied with FF2 than they've been with Spidey 3. Non-stop FX and box office totals be damned; I just want a solid story with likable, recognizable characters, decent action and some good laughs - If FF2 delivers in these areas, it could earn the franchise a permanent place in moviegoers' hearts.

I see your point. I don't know I may be easily pleased, I liked S3, I also liked FF1 and I loved X3 the most of all the Xmen films, but I was dissapointed in Elektra and DD the theatrical release.

To me it is a real treat to be able to see these movies being made.

I thought the Sandman and Venom criticisms were valid. There was a lot going on in this movie and to be honest, this spiderman could have been just about harry and Peter, MJ and Venom, Sandman was like out of place.

However I think that Avi wanted to give the fans something. Sometimes when you try to please us it messes things up.

Fans were asking for venom and they got him but it was too much. They should have taken Sandman out. It seems like they should have shot Spiderman 3 and 4 together.

it is obvious that this movie is not the end as far as Sony is concerned.

And I was referring to the interenational releases for Shrek and Pirates, should have been clear on that .

 

[Malus]

^ Interesting...I would have said leave Venom out, make it the Sandman chapter of the franchise...but introduce Eddie Brock and begin to develop his character, and hatred of Peter, ala Harry in SM2.
But yeah, there was too much going on in there. Definitely agree with that.

 

[highguard]

^ Interesting...I would have said leave Venom out, make it the Sandman chapter of the franchise...but introduce Eddie Brock and begin to develop his character, and hatred of Peter, ala Harry in SM2.
But yeah, there was too much going on in there. Definitely agree with that.

Yeah that would have worked better as well. I find myself curious about Gwen though, why is she in this movie and what does the future hold for her and spidey.

 

[BloodyWolverine]

Can anyone tell me who knows.Is The Silver Surfer really evil for i know nothing about him. My feeling is he really isn't he's just doing his job.

I so would have rather had Sand Man and The Lizard in Spiderman 2. With Spiderman and Harry Fighting that combo or Doc Ock back. I would have saved Venom and Carnage for Spiderman 4 and Sinister Six for Spiderman 5.


I think FF2 looks pretty good. Maybe it will be like X-2 was to X-Men 1. But honestly can any movie catch spiderman 3. globally. Only thing i see is harry potter 5 or Pirates 3.

 

[Kelly]

Can anyone tell me who knows.Is The Silver Surfer really evil for i know nothing about him. My feeling is he really isn't he's just doing his job.

I so would have rather had Sand Man and The Lizard in Spiderman 2. With Spiderman and Harry Fighting that combo or Doc Ock back. I would have saved Venom and Carnage for Spiderman 4 and Sinister Six for Spiderman 5.


I think FF2 looks pretty good. Maybe it will be like X-2 was to X-Men 1. But honestly can any movie catch spiderman 3. globally. Only thing i see is harry potter 5 or Pirates 3.

This should help ya out....

http://whoisthesilversurfer.com/us/

 

[LadyVader]

Like I care. Spiderman 3 had no heart. FF2 can have the most basic of basic action sequences. Silver Surfer, Human Torch and the Thing doing a Three Stooges routine.

The movie has to have heart damnit! Any one of us can think of decent action sequences. But making the characters real and likeable. Ahh, there's the rub.

 

[Fantastic-Boy]

Both are great!No comparisions!

 

[Spider-Fan]

Spider-Man's action should be different from the action of the FF and SS. He is a much smaller time hero.

That said, SM3 was very impressive and will be hard to top visually. This movie should be very different though.

 

[YJ1]

Spiderman 3 had no heart.

Wow, that's the one complaint I haven't heard. To me, all three films had as much heart and emotion as possible.

That said, SM3 was very impressive and will be hard to top visually. This movie should be very different though.

THAT is why I won't be whining about the shorter running time. SM3 will have an extra hour on FF2. I'm expecting FF2 to be just as good visually.

Spider-man is the only Marvel property to significantly avoid these creative pitfalls.

I hate to burst your bubble but these "creative pitfalls" appear only in your mind. The Marvel Universe must adapt to real world sensibilities. If you have a problem differentiating between the Marvel Universe and the movie universe because of your preconceived notions, that's your problem not creative ones. Daredevil and X-Men both did this very well. FF would've worked better had the story been more crisp.

 

[Naite22]

NOT A CRITICISM

Given the incredibly expensive and spectacular action of Spidey 3, I can't help but feel FF2 is going to look pretty cheap and basic in comparison.

Not that it will stop me from watching the movie on the day of release as I believe it's going to be great.

That's because the FF movie's ARE cheap compared to Spidey!... and it WILL look basic. There's nothing incredible about it. woooow! The silver surfer is so incredible made!... Jeez! T1000's silver-image way back from 1992's Terminator 2 looks just as good! An easier or more simple character to create CG-wice I can't emagine!

FF2 looks to be better than the original, but than again, that's NOT a tough task to follow!...

ps. The running time is a pathetic 95 minutes long! Even shorter than the so disappointing X3!lame. I'll bend over backwards giving you all a HUGE apology IF this film becomes a success among critics and the public, but I highly doubt it!

 

[Hunter Rider]

I saw SM3 yesterday and i loved it,i think from what we saw in the trailer there will be an epic set of action sequences in FF2 and it should deliver just as well though when seeing giant Sandman vs Spidey and Harry it really made me wish for the FF and SS battling Giant Galactus in the middle of NY as this movies finale

I personally prefer a more realistic approach to the use of fx, especially in comic book movies. Seeing the likes of Catwoman, Daredevil and sometimes Spider-Man doing all these acrobatics and sometimes looking very video-gamey can be distracting. I personally prefer X-Men, Blade and Batman Begin's approach to the use of fx. I wouldn't worry too much about FF2 paling in comparison to SM3, as long as fx are used appropriately and not overdone then the movie shouldn't suffer - that and the story has to be good!

The thing is if you look at the books Spidey and DD are both acrobatic fighters with amazing agility,Batman and Wolverine are much more ground and pound based.

 

[Kelly]

That's because the FF movie's ARE cheap compared to Spidey!... and it WILL look basic. There's nothing incredible about it. woooow! The silver surfer is so incredible made!... Jeez! T1000's silver-image way back from 1992's Terminator 2 looks just as good! An easier or more simple character to create CG-wice I can't emagine!

FF2 looks to be better than the original, but than again, that's NOT a tough task to follow!...

ps. The running time is a pathetic 95 minutes long! Even shorter than the so disappointing X3!lame. I'll bend over backwards giving you all a HUGE apology IF this film becomes a success among critics and the public, but I highly doubt it!

Ummmmmm.....just no.

 

[Inkerman]

Like I care. Spiderman 3 had no heart. FF2 can have the most basic of basic action sequences. Silver Surfer, Human Torch and the Thing doing a Three Stooges routine.

The movie has to have heart damnit! Any one of us can think of decent action sequences. But making the characters real and likeable. Ahh, there's the rub.

​

No Heart? Spder-man 3 had no heart? Actually, it was ALL about heart, or rather breaking them. Peter breaks MJ's heart, Flint Marko is just trying to provide for his daughter(granted, stealing isn't the best way, but his heart was in the right place.) Peter is mad at Marko for killing his Uncle. Harry is mad at Peter because he thinks Parker killed his father. Parker is mad at Eddie Brock for taking his job.
So you have all these hurt people running around mad and angry, so of course a lot of fights break out (a.k.a. "action sequenses"). Quite an emotional scene, really.
So you have one of two routes: stay mad and just try to destroy everything that's making you angry,
OR-
Forgive the one who who hurt you, mend hurt feelings, and take care of business.
A rare if not completely alien concept in comic lore, but a very profound comcept
in the terms of the human condition, forgiving your enenmy. Beating your enemy to pulp with super powers, that's relatively easy; forgiving them, that's very hard to do.

 

[November Rain]

they both look cgi wise that they are going to look basic compared to transformers at this moment in time.

 

[coreymb16]

From looking at the trailers an tv spots, I think the SFX looks way better than Spider-Man 3 SFX.

 

[Malus]

​

No Heart? Spder-man 3 had no heart? Actually, it was ALL about heart, or rather breaking them. Peter breaks MJ's heart, Flint Marko is just trying to provide for his daughter(granted, stealing isn't the best way, but his heart was in the right place.) Peter is mad at Marko for killing his Uncle. Harry is mad at Peter because he thinks Parker killed his father. Parker is mad at Eddie Brock for taking his job.
So you have all these hurt people running around mad and angry, so of course a lot of fights break out (a.k.a. "action sequenses"). Quite an emotional scene, really.
So you have one of two routes: stay mad and just try to destroy everything that's making you angry,
OR-
Forgive the one who who hurt you, mend hurt feelings, and take care of business.
A rare if not completely alien concept in comic lore, but a very profound comcept
in the terms of the human condition, forgiving your enenmy. Beating your enemy to pulp with super powers, that's relatively easy; forgiving them, that's very hard to do.

Harry, in my estimation, is mentally incompetent. Once he discovered his father's Goblin stuff at the end of Spidey 2, he should have realized, "Oh crap, my Dad was a crazy murderer!"
I mean jeez, he saw his dad murder 2 men in cold blood on that balcony in Spidey1, not to mention he very nearly killed MJ-twice...and Harry himself had been in danger on that balcony. How stupid is Harry, anyway?
That he pursues the whole vengeance thing after that point strains credibility to me. James Franco's performance was magnificent, though.

As for Marko's daughter, what the hell even happened to her?
One of the most-asked questions I've heard from the numerous people I've spoken to who disliked the film. They wanted resolution there, and didn't get it. Personally I cared a lot more about Flint's liitle girl's fate than I did anyone else's. But in the end she was just forgotten. I could have used more Flint Marko too, and NO Venom, except for introducing Brock. Thomas Hayden Church was fantastic and he deserved more to do.

But it has a lot of heart by anyone's standards, I'll grant you that.
I mean how many times does Petey cry in this turkey? I counted at least 4 times. There's more boo-hoos in this film than in Steel Mangolias.
A superhero movie that ends with the hero and villain both crying. God help us.

As for forgiveness, I'm trying. I'm almost there with Sam Raimi, unless I think of the Emo Pete dance sequence (that had the 2 audiences I saw it with hooting with derision) but Avi Arad...He's done too much damage to the characters I love to ever earn forgiveness.

Sigh. If the Thing cries and dances in FF2, I'll just give up. t:

Hey, maybe the Surfer will tear up: "I just can't (sob!) destroy your pretty little blue planet (sniff!) I just..can't!"

"We forgive you for ripping these big-ass holes in our planet, Surfer; don't worry about it. You just go home and take care of yourself. You've been through an awful lot. Here's some tissue, buddy."

 

[terry78]

^On your Thing crying complaint, you do know that's taken directly from the panel in which Reed and Sue got married in the original book.

 

[coreymb16]

Harry, in my estimation, is mentally incompetent. Once he discovered his father's Goblin stuff at the end of Spidey 2, he should have realized, "Oh crap, my Dad was a crazy murderer!"
I mean jeez, he saw hims dad murder 2 men in cold blood on that balcony in Spidey1, not to mention he very nearly killed MJ-twice...and Harry himself had been in danger on that balcony. How stupid is Harry, anyway?
That he pursues the whole vengeance thing after that point strains credibility to me. James Franco's performance was magnificent, though.

As for Marko's daughter, what the hell even happened to her?
One of the most-asked questions I've heard from the numerous people I've spoken to who disliked the film. They wanted resolution there, and didn't get it. Personally I cared a lot more about Flint's liitle girl's fate than I did anyone else's. But in the end she was just forgotten. I could have used more Flint Marko too, and NO Venom, except for introducing Brock. Thomas Hayden Church was fantastic and he deserved more to do.

But it has a lot of heart by anyone's standards, I'll grant you that.
I mean how many times does Petey cry in this turkey? I counted at least 4 times. There's more boo-hoos in this film than in Steel Manolias.
A superhero movie that ends with the hero and villain both crying. God help us.

As for forgiveness, I'm trying. I'm almost there with Sam Raimi, unless I think of the Emo Pete dance sequence (that had the 2 audiences I saw it with hooting with derision) but Avi Arad...He's done too much damage to the characters I love to ever earn forgiveness.

Sigh. If the Thing cries and dances in FF2, I'll just give up. t:

Hey, maybe the Surfer will tear up: "I just can't (sob!) destroy your pretty little blue planet (sniff!) I just..can't!"

"We forgive you for ripping these big-ass holes in our planet, Surfer; don't worry about it. You just go home and take care of yourself. You've been through an awful lot. Here's some tissue, buddy."

I don't Harry knew his dad was the Green Goblin until towards the end of SM2.

 

[Cyrusbales]

​

No Heart? Spder-man 3 had no heart? Actually, it was ALL about heart, or rather breaking them. Peter breaks MJ's heart, Flint Marko is just trying to provide for his daughter(granted, stealing isn't the best way, but his heart was in the right place.) Peter is mad at Marko for killing his Uncle. Harry is mad at Peter because he thinks Parker killed his father. Parker is mad at Eddie Brock for taking his job.
So you have all these hurt people running around mad and angry, so of course a lot of fights break out (a.k.a. "action sequenses"). Quite an emotional scene, really.
So you have one of two routes: stay mad and just try to destroy everything that's making you angry,
OR-
Forgive the one who who hurt you, mend hurt feelings, and take care of business.
A rare if not completely alien concept in comic lore, but a very profound comcept
in the terms of the human condition, forgiving your enenmy. Beating your enemy to pulp with super powers, that's relatively easy; forgiving them, that's very hard to do.

Potentially all these themes you mention are great, however the execution of them through dialgoue and performances etc are massively flawed at the best. It's all very well to say, "oh yeah, well he's doing it for a little girl, he gives forgiveness after everything, MJ gets upset and heartbroken etc etc." but the way in which this is conveyed is where the quality lies, and this film failed miserably.

People say "i have a great idea for a film", but they could probably never come close to writing it well, which is where SM3 comes in, great idea's, but not worked out well enough in any way.

As for FF2, we can expect a consistent film, they created a mood in F4, and they stuck to it pretty much, although there was not much worthwhile material in there due to establishing and the narrative. However they can now build on that tone and mood, which will make for a decent film this time hopefully.

 

[Iron Maiden]

I don't Harry knew his dad was the Green Goblin until towards the end of SM2.

Yeah, but

Spoiler

he still wanted to settle up with Peter and attacked him. Then he convenienlty got amnesia from his injuries..heck he should have been dead from hitting that obstruction with no head gear at that speed.

 

[highguard]

Clearly, this was not the point of discussions in this thread.
I think we've always been pretty polite to eachother...but this entire post just made you lose a little credibility with me.
And officially...Pirates now opens at 8pm on the 24th.

This is a late response but I have to agree with you here. I was a little overzealous in my characterizations of people critiquing S3 as haters.

It does not help that I myself had criticisms of the film for trying to do too much.

The apology is late but hopefully not too late.

 

[highguard]

Harry, in my estimation, is mentally incompetent. Once he discovered his father's Goblin stuff at the end of Spidey 2, he should have realized, "Oh crap, my Dad was a crazy murderer!"
I mean jeez, he saw hims dad murder 2 men in cold blood on that balcony in Spidey1, not to mention he very nearly killed MJ-twice...and Harry himself had been in danger on that balcony. How stupid is Harry, anyway?
That he pursues the whole vengeance thing after that point strains credibility to me. James Franco's performance was magnificent, though.

As for Marko's daughter, what the hell even happened to her?
One of the most-asked questions I've heard from the numerous people I've spoken to who disliked the film. They wanted resolution there, and didn't get it. Personally I cared a lot more about Flint's liitle girl's fate than I did anyone else's. But in the end she was just forgotten. I could have used more Flint Marko too, and NO Venom, except for introducing Brock. Thomas Hayden Church was fantastic and he deserved more to do.

But it has a lot of heart by anyone's standards, I'll grant you that.
I mean how many times does Petey cry in this turkey? I counted at least 4 times. There's more boo-hoos in this film than in Steel Manolias.
A superhero movie that ends with the hero and villain both crying. God help us.

As for forgiveness, I'm trying. I'm almost there with Sam Raimi, unless I think of the Emo Pete dance sequence (that had the 2 audiences I saw it with hooting with derision) but Avi Arad...He's done too much damage to the characters I love to ever earn forgiveness.

Sigh. If the Thing cries and dances in FF2, I'll just give up. t:

Hey, maybe the Surfer will tear up: "I just can't (sob!) destroy your pretty little blue planet (sniff!) I just..can't!"

"We forgive you for ripping these big-ass holes in our planet, Surfer; don't worry about it. You just go home and take care of yourself. You've been through an awful lot. Here's some tissue, buddy."

Hahahahh Malus.

You do know that the Thing cried in a scene at the wedding right?

And there is a scene where Johnny took the Thing and Reed to a night club just before the wedding.

They dance at nightclubs.


I am sorry to have had to remind you of this. I felt it better to prepare yourself now than be broadsided on the 15th lol.

Seriously though, can you imagine the thing dancing:

Alicia: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Thing: I am so sorry, was that your foot I crushed.

Alicia: Just get me to the hospital now.

Thing: So you think I should toss that dancing with the stars invite.

Alicia: What do you think.

Hahahahahhah, maybe alba is right, FF2 may have us cracking up on June 15th.

 

[Malus]

I don't Harry knew his dad was the Green Goblin until towards the end of SM2.

That's what I said.
Read my first sentence again.

Harry would have recalled his own imperilment at his father's hands, and that of MJ.
And Norman was an emotionally abusive ass to his son anyway.

One has to assume that Harry was way screwed up to start with. The discovery that should have proven that his father was freakin' evil instead drove him on into revenge...
Of course I always assumed the "ghost" of Norman in SM2 & 3 was all in Harry's head.

But the discovery that his dad was the murderous Goblin....that should have made Harry at least willing to listen to Peter.
(Unless he was indeed VERY crazy.)

 

[Malus]

^On your Thing crying complaint, you do know that's taken directly from the panel in which Reed and Sue got married in the original book.

Uh...YEAH, I knew that.
Someone was griping about that part of the teaser back in December, and I put up a panel of Ben crying at the wedding from the comics wedding in FF Annual #3.

 

[Storm22]

The thing is if you look at the books Spidey and DD are both acrobatic fighters with amazing agility,Batman and Wolverine are much more ground and pound based.

True, I suppose the closest we got to that in X-Men was Nightcrawler's attack in the White House from X2.