Fixing Punisher:War Zone

[PunisherPoster]

I don't think it's on that level of a bad movie.

The fact that it's intentionally done in an over-the-top manner pretty much prevents it from being on such a level. I'm still surprised that people could watch this and think it's meant to be taken seriously. How can you be embarrassed when the movie is (rather obviously) in on the joke? A parkour runner is blown out of the sky with a grenade, and people are taken aback by some phony New York accents? Seriously? In a film where the main villain has horse hide stitched into his face? (The result of a freak bottle crusher accident!)

It's actually quite fascinating that so many fans now have only one speed when approaching a comicbook movie. This is not so much a comment on anyone in this thread, as general reactions I've noticed online. I saw one review where the author said he cringed throughout the film, because the entire audience was laughing at the over the top violence. I assume he missed all the interviews where Lexi Alexander said that's exactly the reaction she was striving for.

The scary thing is, that kid will probably grow up to make a Superman film that's inspired by Frost/Nixon.

 

[The Guard]

I think it was The Guard who asked me what was so much better about Pittsy and Ink in the comics, which makes me wonder if he even read them.

If I have, I don't remember them. I've seen a number of "violent" mobsters in Punisher comics over the years, but I stopped reading MAX after the first volume. Are they in that one?

They weren't cookie cutter canon fodder. They came off as menacing. Legitimate threats.

In what way?

Pittsy was some sort of surreal hothead that made certain Joe Pesci characters look like Dr. Phil and could have been played by someone like Mickey Rourke, and Ink was this "quirky", quiet weirdo who was basically had an unassuming demeanor, looking more like Steve Buscemi then some model kid.

That doesn't tell me what sets them apart as characters. Can you provide some more details? Explain to me how a quiet Ink in WAR ZONE is not like quiet Ink in MAX.

But mainly id change Looney Bin Jims style of fighting at the end have him cheap shotting the punisher while he was making his way through the hotel till they finally fight. He shouldnt be a kung fu master but just a crazy bastard who swings an axe or something and lunges at frank while trying to tear his face off.

You're saying what a character invented for the movie should have been like? You did see LBJ leaping on Frank and biting him, etc, right?

And did you just outright miss the axe sequence?

But I guess "lunging" would make for a more interesting character...

 

[cryptic name]

If I have, I don't remember them. I've seen a number of "violent" mobsters in Punisher comics over the years, but I stopped reading MAX after the first volume. Are they in that one?



In what way?

guard, i like you, enjoyed war zone quite a bit. but i gotta agree that the pittsy in the comic book was far more interesting a character. basically, he's a little old man who looks like hank's dad from king of the hill in track suit with the foulest mouth and a surly demeanor, until near the end of the book when he lets loose and you see under the sweatsuit he's insanely buff and nearly kills frank.

 

[ObakeTora]

yea, it's funny how they never can get the obvious right in films.

 

[Bubonic]

I'll admit that even though I'm loudly proclaiming that Pittsy, Ink and Maginty were so much better in the comics my memory of it is actually vague.

So I started revisiting my entire Ennis Punisher MAX collection, really wanting to soak everything in.

He brought more dept to the character then anyone that came before him, I especially like the added touches in Tyger and Born.

Now that I've read those two I'm thinking of jumping right into In The Beginning, reading The Cell somewhere in the middle, and saving The End for the end.

I can't wait to reaffirm my suspicion that Pittsy, Ink, and Maginty were all much more interesting characters set in much more interesting stories then the P:WZ movie ever got the ambition for.

 

[S. Grundy]

They were, Pittsy was a ****ing unkillable pitbull in the comic, in the movie he was just a fat **** that had his face blown off. They could have topped the fight with the Russian from the 2004 film with the one between Pittsy and Frank from In the Beginning, I mean the LBJ wasn't even a good replacement for it.

 

[KT7777]

They were, Pittsy was a ****ing unkillable pitbull in the comic, in the movie he was just a fat **** that had his face blown off. They could have topped the fight with the Russian from the 2004 film with the one between Pittsy and Frank from In the Beginning, I mean the LBJ wasn't even a good replacement for it.

I think both are good,but I kinda like LBJ fight with Frank better.

 

[S. Grundy]

The LBJ fight was just kinda boring compared to the Russian fight. Frank throws LBJ around, gets bite a few times gets kicked in the knee, that's about it.

 

[Sundancer]

How can you be embarrassed when the movie is (rather obviously) in on the joke? A parkour runner is blown out of the sky with a grenade, and people are taken aback by some phony New York accents? Seriously?

It's actually quite fascinating that so many fans now have only one speed when approaching a comicbook movie.

 

[S. Grundy]

It's not just the accents, it's because a lot of the dialogue is **** along with some of the performances.

 

[Bubonic]

They were, Pittsy was a ****ing unkillable pitbull in the comic, in the movie he was just a fat **** that had his face blown off. They could have topped the fight with the Russian from the 2004 film with the one between Pittsy and Frank from In the Beginning, I mean the LBJ wasn't even a good replacement for it.

There really was an relentless maniac vibe from the character, he had so much will to win, so much savagery that things that should have killed him ended up making him more vicious.

The guy in the movie isn't intimidating at all, can't even control his own punk kid who, I'm sure someone will vouch for me, isn't nearly as interesting as Ink.

I think both are good,but I kinda like LBJ fight with Frank better.

If it is still in my theatre next Tuesday I'll have to give it another look, because I do remember a pretty good fight.

LBJ was played over the top, but really it was his lines that killed him. Meowing, tummy wummy, and all that really weak ******** did.

He didn't bring anything interesting to that sort of character, just cheap imitations... Kinda as if the "date movie/epic movie" guys directed him to do Hopkins with an "edge".

The LBJ fight was just kinda boring compared to the Russian fight. Frank throws LBJ around, gets bite a few times gets kicked in the knee, that's about it.

Now that I think of it, even the fight against Pittsy's sister was more brutal!

Another thing the movie forgot to do is give the audience a reason to believe Ink and Pittsy might be scary.

Warning, the following might offend some Hypsters, discretion is advised

Spoiler

It's not just the accents, it's because a lot of the dialogue is **** along with some of the performances.

That's the thing, I feel a b-movie that doesn't take itself seriously and has over the top stuff is fine. Stuff like Bobba Ho-Tep is what I have in mind, everything about it is ****ing ludicrous, but the directing, acting, and story are all actually pretty good.
Or is a b-movie supposed to be something with an uninspired script and horribe dialogue lazily left in because the director wants people to laugh at how bad it is?

I think a b-movie movie is what a director claims his/her movie is when it's obvious that no majority will ever agree it to be good in any true cinematic sense. So they play off a lot of bad judgement as intentional to hopefully make them seem brilliant, or hurt a career.

 

[Bubonic]

Not only does this guy survive one brutal hand to hand combat with Frank, but it only fuels him on for more.

The guy is completely hardcore, and Frank realizes that he is one of his most formidable opponents yet.

The fight gets more brutal then this, but as you can see, Pittsy just ripped out his own dangling eye so it wouldn't get in the way.

Warning the following contains bad language and violence

Spoiler

Spoiler

He actually put some fear in the Punisher!

 

[Punisher_MAX]

The LBJ fight was kind of anti climactic. I was expecting a savage beat down from Frank...When he kicked the door down i thought it was gonna be a brutal fight but yeah...

 

[Nivek]

They were, Pittsy was a ****ing unkillable pitbull in the comic, in the movie he was just a fat **** that had his face blown off. They could have topped the fight with the Russian from the 2004 film with the one between Pittsy and Frank from In the Beginning, I mean the LBJ wasn't even a good replacement for it.

I actually picked up In the Beginning a couple weeks ago, the characters on screen fall into the cursed comic book criteria "... In Name Only". Pitsy and Ink were throw away muscle, but the comic was much more entertaining than just being bullet and fist fodder. What was up with them being Father and Son?

 

[claydogg]

talking to a lot of comic fans but not huge punisher fans say 1 thing the

1) bad guys were cheesey (laughable not scary)

2) Some of the special effects were horrible.

myself I like the special effects,,but the gore didn't make these guys scary at all.
I liked Jigsaw,,but come on Looney bin Jim wasn't scary at all.
but I thought he was funny at least.

So who knows this could be a cult classic like "Army of Darkness"

 

[ObakeTora]

Not only does this guy survive one brutal hand to hand combat with Frank, but it only fuels him on for more.

The guy is completely hardcore, and Frank realizes that he is one of his most formidable opponents yet.

The fight gets more brutal then this, but as you can see, Pittsy just ripped out his own dangling eye so it wouldn't get in the way.

Warning the following contains bad language and violence

Spoiler

Spoiler

He actually put some fear in the Punisher!

I can't beleive you don't remember Pittsy that well, to this day him and your avatar still give me nightmares

I think Punisher Max would have been a cult hit if the Max storylines were told verbatim. Could you imagine Paul Verhoevan directing Max after a meth fueled summer in Glasgow?

 

[Bubonic]

I can't beleive you don't remember Pittsy that well, to this day him and your avatar still give me nightmares

Anyone who could put a scare in Frank is a horribly frightening man, and that is just how he came off in the book.

I think Punisher Max would have been a cult hit if the Max storylines were told verbatim. Could you imagine Paul Verhoevan directing Max after a meth fueled summer in Glasgow?

Just looked that director up, good mix of stuff, can't see it being any worse then what we got anyways!

And that is still one of the major points that needed to be changed in this movie, script adhering to the MAX Punisher stories.

 

[Rukus]

The bad guys were probably the biggest flaw in the movie. A lot of there dialogue was just terrible. I realize it's a comic book movie but all the tough guy talk could of been done better. As far as the fight between LBJ and Frank I thought it was pretty good. It was kind of like the fight he had with that midget guy from the Mother Russia story arc. It's a Marvel Knights take on the characters more then anything and I can accept that but some of the performances could of been better thats all. Still a good movie overall and the last battle at the Bradstreet hotel alone was good enough for me to watch it many more times.

 

[The Guard]

guard, i like you, enjoyed war zone quite a bit. but i gotta agree that the pittsy in the comic book was far more interesting a character. basically, he's a little old man who looks like hank's dad from king of the hill in track suit with the foulest mouth and a surly demeanor, until near the end of the book when he lets loose and you see under the sweatsuit he's insanely buff and nearly kills frank.

So he's violent, and he's an old man who turns out to be insanely buff and violent. That's not completely uniniteresting, but it's not all that interesting, either. More interesting than the movie version? I guess.

How can you be embarrassed when the movie is (rather obviously) in on the joke? A parkour runner is blown out of the sky with a grenade, and people are taken aback by some phony New York accents? Seriously?

That's kind of what I'm wondering.

They were, Pittsy was a ****ing unkillable pitbull in the comic, in the movie he was just a fat **** that had his face blown off.

So what you're saying is, he looked different, and he didn't kick Frank's ass, and therefore he wasn't Pittsy. So Pittsy...wasn't a particulary interesting character to begin with, he was a cheap thrill/twist character, and the movie used his name for their character.

They could have topped the fight with the Russian from the 2004 film with the one between Pittsy and Frank from In the Beginning, I mean the LBJ wasn't even a good replacement for it.

I just read the fight (unless there's more). It does not top the battle between Frank and The Russian on any level. One's eye being ripped off and assorted other gore does not a more interesting fight make. The Russian took a knife, a ton of other punishment, and his face being melted before he even came close to coming down. The 04 film had several far more interesting elements to it than the Castle/Pittsy fight that was posted.

The guy is completely hardcore, and Frank realizes that he is one of his most formidable opponents yet.

So the complaint is that Pittsy isn't "hardcore" enough. That I can understand. Still, the character doesn't strike me as all that interesting.

The fight gets more brutal then this, but as you can see, Pittsy just ripped out his own dangling eye so it wouldn't get in the way.

It gets more brutal? How so?

He actually put some fear in the Punisher!

I see The Punisher saying "This is not good". I have seen Castle say and do MANY things that imply that he's not pleased about a situation, or that he knows he is in trouble over the years. That does not strike me as putting an above average amount of fear in him.

Are they father and son in the book?

 

[hero79]

I have to say that they really did **** up the Pittsy character. Same goes for Maginty. They should've given them different names for the movie. I think fans would've been more forgiving.

I hold nothing against the movie though.

 

[S. Grundy]

So what you're saying is, he looked different, and he didn't kick Frank's ass, and therefore he wasn't Pittsy. So Pittsy...wasn't a particulary interesting character to begin with, he was a cheap thrill/twist character, and the movie used his name for their character.

Yeah, he was a lot more interesting in the comic.

I just read the fight (unless there's more). It does not top the battle between Frank and The Russian on any level. One's eye being ripped off and assorted other gore does not a more interesting fight make. The Russian took a knife, a ton of other punishment, and his face being melted before he even came close to coming down. The 04 film had several far more interesting elements to it than the Castle/Pittsy fight that was posted.

I was talking strictly the film version, and that they could have topped that fight with the Pittsy one in the film, or even with the LBJ. But they didn't come close in my opinion.

So the complaint is that Pittsy isn't "hardcore" enough. That I can understand. Still, the character doesn't strike me as all that interesting.

It gets more brutal? How so?

He gets impaled on a fence and still comes after Castle, before finally getting his face blown off. And even then Castle wonders if he's alive, or just death spasms.

Are they father and son in the book?

Nope.

 

[Rukus]

I didn't mind that certain characters weren't the way they are in the books. As long as the main guy The Punisher was presented the right way and he was I was fine with it. The Punisher when it comes down to it is the only character I care the most about in the movie and the books.

 

[PunisherPoster]

I just viewed all the minor characters as little nods to the comic, rather than attempts to truly adapt them.

For example, Nicky Cavella is a great comicbook villain for the Punisher. But as a potential film villain, he's not very interesting. After all, there's not much point in using such an ordinary character when the rogues gallery includes the likes of Jigsaw, Barracuda, or The Russian.

 

[S. Grundy]

I just viewed all the minor characters as little nods to the comic, rather than attempts to truly adapt them.

For example, Nicky Cavella is a great comicbook villain for the Punisher. But as a potential film villain, he's not very interesting. After all, there's not much point in using such an ordinary character when the rogues gallery includes the likes of Jigsaw, Barracuda, or The Russian.

Then again there's the opposite, you could say Harry Heck wasn't an interesting character in the comic, but even with the short screen time (he lasted longer on film than in the comic) Hensleigh tried to make the character interesting. Even if you liked it or not.

But in the film all those character were just cannon fodder, I could have cared less if they died. And a good director will usually at least attempt to make the characters seem interesting even if they are going to die.

And Cavella is a hell of a lot more interesting character than Jigsaw.

 

[dft-313]

Guard, I was under the impression that you had read the MAX run. You haven't. Your opinion is now null and void to me.