Doesn't sound terribly faithful, no. But didn't he and his gang leave a knife in a shopkeeper's head in the movie?
Yup, there isn't a doubt that they are cold hearted killers.
My problem is in the way they are presented.
Basically they're a bunch of *******s on a constant meth high that like to **** **** up and do some free running in the process. Oddly enough for the audience the leader guy turns out to be sort of Irish.
Irish black dudes certainly aren't an anomaly, but it sort of stands out in New York, if it's still possible to stand out in New York I guess?
Ennis establishes why he is Irish, I don't recall everything but I remember there being an explosion, innocent people dying, Punisher getting pissed off, connections to Irish terrorist, and I don't really remember how Maginty fit in.... But he certainly was much more sadistic and he didn't get of as easy either.
Whatever sort of movie you plan to make, weather it be an art house film, or a b movie, there should be effort put into fleshing out the main characters in a film.
At least Maginty bore a resemblance to his comic counter part, but if done properly they could of actually did the whole movie on that storyline and it would of worked better then what we got.
Them being in the movie turned out to be more like easter eggs then actual homage to the source material, and that pissed me off because it was unecesary.
He looks sleepy. Not afraid.
That's just your take on exhaustion from being in a very demanding fight.
What's great in that interpretation and presantation of Frank is that you actually see his age. You see that he was a battle worn face.
Saying he was struck with fear was an overstatement, he had a look of apprechension on his face.
Thing with Frank is that he usually kills people in seconds, so it must still be surprising for him when someone causes that much trouble for him.
I didn't say I wasn't impressed with the fight. I pointed out that brutal fight does not an interesting characterization make. Is it a cool fight? Sure. But that has little to do with characterization. Unless the character is just "violent", in which case...they're not all that interesting a character.
Got to apologize for putting words in your mouth there, I've been misplacing anger these days
.
I shouldn't even be angry, people have a right to their opinions and I've got to learn to take more time in backing up my side if I'm going to take one.
The fight choreography actually wasn't bad in P:WZ, although more interesting characters would have made the kills much more rewarding.
The violence itself isn't the characterization, but it's an extension of that characterization.
No, Pittsy in the movie was not that brutal. No, Pittsy in the movie was not portrayed as that capable. Having seen what he's like in the comics, I'd probably rather have seen that, even though it would be one more "over the top" element to WAR ZONE.
Obviously in a Lexi Alexander Punisher movie it would be, because that's the decision she made. Play the whole concept off as a joke and and keep the burden of effort from getting in the way.
Everyone just have fun and do what you can with the awful dialogue and ridiculous situations. I bet actors can really enjoy themselves in that sort of atmosphere because there isn't that nagging pressure to make anything good.
Pittsy is a violent animal who runs on primal instinct. Ennis has his own brand of humour, and yes Pittsy isn't your stereotypical "heavy".
Almost reminds me of the vulgarity and ferocity of characters played by Joe Pesci, it comes off as absurb because we see this little pathetic looking man and yet he's a crazed killer.
Pittsy is like that because he's small in stature and old, he's still built very solidly and turns out to be some sort of Terminator.
Maybe I was wrong about this being superb characterization, but my memory isn't serving me well, and you even admit that something closer to this would probably have been more enjoyable, and if handled properly by a director who gets the right person to act the right way we'd have a character that would be worth remembering. It would of been something remarkable.
Someone mentioned the Russian fight which was awesome and showed someone that was unrelenting, and the Pittsy fight, if it was built up in the MAX story, and choreographed properly, would even top that. Plus he wouldn't just randomly show up for a fight either.
Boy, that's a broad and assuming statement. You just don't read between any of the lines, do you? I was a huge Punisher fan for years. I read CIRCLE OF BLOOD, WAR JOURNAL, WAR ZONE, Marvel Knights, and the first arc of MAX. heck, I even read PUNISHER 2099. I've read ESSENTIAL PUNISHER, so I've got some of the early stuff down. But apparently, because I haven't read the more recent arcs with Pittsy and Ink, I'm not allowed to ask what their characters are like?
I wasn't trying to boss anyone around, I guess I really feel into being a Punisher fan through immersion in the world Ennis built for him.
So I prioritize that interpretation over ones I've never really gotten to know... I don't give as much credence to the original characterization of Frank because the comic code caged an animal.
His is a brutal story that doesn't have a happy ending, and it doesn't seem that is conveyed as well when there is too many restraints on the character so you have to really on gimmicks to keep the character from being too grim. Sword guns, costumed villains, absurb battle vans.
Lexi made the mistake of overemphasizing the cheesy aspects of the characters history. There is some cheese in Ennis's MAX at times, but it plays out much more darkly.
You can ask what they are like, but it be really cool if you could find out for yourself, because even once I come back from re-reading the stories, I'll have my own slant and way of describing them which might not really convey how they characters really are to you.
You're obviously a huge fan of the Punisher or you wouldn't of risked reading 2099. So do yourself a favour and read what might be the best Punisher stuff ever made. He presents the history and motivation a bit differently then it had before, fleshed out his formative years beautifully in some one-shots, and even did good work with the future which can never really happen at Marvel.
Where have I argued in favor of the way the movie presents Ink and Pittsy after seeing that fight?
Nowhere really, but it felt like you are defending the possibility that the characters in the movie could actually be as good or better then the originals.
Do you just not read my statements?
So he's violent, and he's an old man who turns out to be insanely buff and violent. That's not completely uniniteresting, but it's not all that interesting, either. More interesting than the movie version? I guess.
Not always as carefully as I should, I have a hard time putting in the time when it comes to doing this message board stuff. I just get the vibe from you that you are defending a basically bad movie against some really amazing source material.
I know I can't do the character justice by making broad statements about him, so it bugs me having to spend time defending something that I
know is good.
I know that the only way I can really make you see why the damn characters are better in the books is by having you read them for yourself... Which shouldn't be a tedious task if you like the character at all.
If Garth Ennis had not written about twenty characters like that, that might interest me.
If I'd read more Ennis, maybe they wouldn't interest me. But are they really always carbon copies of each other, or does each have it's own twist?
And anyways people are very similar as a basic rule, everyone has their uniqueness, but we have basic patterns and quirks.
You can reuse similar characters in different situations, that's basically what literature and movies seem to do. Give them as much background to make them stand out as a unique character, make them say memorable things, do memorable stuff, and obviously the movie didn't do that for said characters.
Yes, it is, and why you think you need to hear me say such a thing is beyond me. I don't tend to state the obvious when I don't have to, but I did say as much after seeing the panels.
I just got the annoying impression that you were defending the movies actual characters in place of the MAX books.
I don't have a particular level of depth. The characters don't appear to have much, so I wouldn't expect much in their translation to film.
Well they were still just secondary characters in the comics, but it for sure could work if it really tried to emulate how the comics presented them.
Here is my main tip as to how to approach it.
Don't play it like a joke the whole way through. Some directors can actually make these kinds of characters work. Lexi might even if she hadn't decided to make a b movie.
How long did it take you to pull that Simpsons quote out? Are you really implying that because I enjoy WAR ZONE, that I somehow don't understand the Punisher can be portrayed as a more interesting character, and on a whole other level?
Wow.
I don't really spend any time replying, at the moment this is me taking my time and you can see why I usually rather not. I did assume too much about what you were trying to put forth.
I just jumped the gun more then I should have because you kept demanding so much proof as to why the Pittsy, Ink, and Maginty characters were better in the MAX stories... When I felt that was such an obvious reality, and also assumed you'd actually read through the whole series and that you would know better then to even imply that the comics are on the same level as the film.
(Falls over laughing)
Oh, snap! He told me.
What did I "assert" that was so wrong? All I did was ask how Ink and Pittsy differ from the comics.
Pissed me off and I didn't take the time to write anything very coherent as a rebuttle.
Please go read the stories. Borrow them from the internet if none of your buddies have them and you don't feel like investing the money or time in it right now.
Once you read them you'll probably go track down the tpb's.
Then you'll see why I was so defensive about it all.
I'm thinking maybe Tuturo might be a good Ink, he could look zoiked out enough for it.
I'd still like Rourke for Pittsy, even if he too tall they could digitally shorten him or something... Camera angles and whatnot.
