Fixing Punisher:War Zone

[kirbyfan]

If the Punisher movie with Thomas Jane had been made with Ray Stevenson, it would be the absolute perfect Punisher movie!

As for War Zone, I would get rid of the jumping guys, I would of made Jigsaw a bigger level villian and more serious, I thought his brother Looney Bin Jim was perfect and I loved his fighting style. They were a bit too cartoonish though.

The Punisher could be made more serious and hardcore like the Godfather.

 

[FVD]

I thought Ray Stevenson looked the part but I also felt that his portrayal was rather poor not to mention the weak executions of his kills especially at the beginning. Agreed the acting was atrocious and Jigsaw's face was a total eyesore. Also agreed that LBJ was stupid not to mention the look on his face throughout the entire film.

Yes the jumping through the mirror sequence was absolutely pointless.

Agreed that I would have loved for some narrative in this film. If Sin City can make it work why not The Punisher?

 

[[A]]

Agh, why bring Sin City to the conversation..?

 

[Nivek]

Because like he said, if Sin City made it work, why is it so hard to make a decent Punisher film?

 

[Balthus Dire]

Because like he said, if Sin City made it work, why is it so hard to make a decent Punisher film?

Well that's also a matter of opinion.

IMO, Sin City nailed the look of the comic but Rodriguez took way too much from the monologues and dialogue, which ended up making it kind of boring.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Well everybody brought up good points so I'll not go over them. I will say that as a life long New Yorker, my city does not look like that! The train stations do not look like that, the trains do not look like that, the buses pm the streets do not look like that. The accents were awful, it was just a bad parody of the city and it's inhabitants.

 

[S. Grundy]

Regarding the Sin City thing, I think he just meant by the narration in Sin City not a panel for panel translation, just Frank talking over a scene or two.

And it did work really well in the '04 movie with him reading off his 'declaration of intent'.

 

[Nivek]

I just get irritated with simple little cool details not being explained like the skull being a target that draws fire to the armor. 3 movies, one guy wears Kevlar the whole film but it has some funky collar, the other at the Climax, and the first one actually turned it down.Fan's love details thrown in and love seeing Frank take a beating.

 

[S. Grundy]

The 2004 film didn't explain but it did use the skull as a target to draw fire, a guy standing next to Frank with a shotgun goes for the chest rather than the head at the end.

 

[JohnnyViper]

I just get irritated with simple little cool details not being explained like the skull being a target that draws fire to the armor. 3 movies, one guy wears Kevlar the whole film but it has some funky collar, the other at the Climax, and the first one actually turned it down.Fan's love details thrown in and love seeing Frank take a beating.

LOL - that funky collar is supposed to help prevent people from slitting your throat.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Regarding the Sin City thing, I think he just meant by the narration in Sin City not a panel for panel translation, just Frank talking over a scene or two.

And it did work really well in the '04 movie with him reading off his 'declaration of intent'.

I disagree. I thought that scene with the declaration of intent was kind of cheeseball, and there's a massive gap in between two of the points where an entire 10 minute scene takes place before he starts talking again.

 

[The Guard]

That's because it's a journal entry. He's not actually thinking those words while he's doing all those things.

 

[Gatchamanjp]

Punisher War Zone is almost the perfect Punisher film. Now, all it needs is, The Battlevan, Marvel Supervillains (especially The Jackel, and Tarantula, whom Punisher fought in the 70's when he was teamed up with Spider-Man), as well as a bigger budget so there could be more collateral damage. I would love to see Mark Neveldine/Brian Taylor to direct Punisher War Zone 2.

 

[The Guard]

I would very much have liked to have seen the van.

 

[SP1D3RxV3N0M]

Well I liked the movie as a movie you see just for fun at midnight and I even made a video of the Punisher in that movie.

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0dinBfl3sY[/YT]

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0dinBfl3sY

 

[Balthus Dire]

That's because it's a journal entry. He's not actually thinking those words while he's doing all those things.

So? That's not the point I was making. There's an actual break in the monologue where an entire scene that's completely unrelated to the monologue occurs. As I recall I don't even think Frank is in the scene.

I understand it's not him thinking it in real time, but it's still stupid because by the time the monologue starts up again you're like "...wait, what?" because it's been so long since the last entry.

 

[Stay_Puft]

So? That's not the point I was making. There's an actual break in the monologue where an entire scene that's completely unrelated to the monologue occurs. As I recall I don't even think Frank is in the scene.

I understand it's not him thinking it in real time, but it's still stupid because by the time the monologue starts up again you're like "...wait, what?" because it's been so long since the last entry.

agreed that that portion could've used better editing, but as far as I'm concerned it still worked, and I'd have to say that the 04 Punisher had the better ending out of the two.

 

[Balthus Dire]

agreed that that portion could've used better editing, but as far as I'm concerned it still worked, and I'd have to say that the 04 Punisher had the better ending out of the two.

I agree about the ending. Frank on the bridge and the monologue was a great way to end it. PWZ had a cheesy ending and ending it with a lame punchline was just....dumb.

 

[S. Grundy]

Yeah, and as I recall per the commentary Hensleigh was going to have this hero theme play over that, and thank God he realized it worked better without the music, just Frank's voice and the wind blowing.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Yeah, and as I recall per the commentary Hensleigh was going to have this hero theme play over that, and thank God he realized it worked better without the music, just Frank's voice and the wind blowing.

Hahaha I didn't know that. That would've been soooooooo bad...

 

[S. Grundy]

I think the music que is called "Call me...The Punisher" on the soundtrack, it's actually pretty good, they only used the beginning of it that is a cello version of the main theme when Dave, Joan and Bumpo come back to the tenement at the end.

But it would have been really out of place, it would destroyed the somberness of the whole scene.

 

[DarKush]

It's a head scratcher. The Punisher should be one of the easiest movies to make, yet Marvel has failed to strike gold three times.

I personally liked the Tom Jane film. I enjoyed John Travolta's villain and his crew, and I liked how Jane's Punisher used his brain to outthink the bad guys and make them turn on each other, as opposed to the typical bloodbath.

There were aspects of Punisher War Zone that I liked. I thought Stevenson physically fit the role, and he did a good, though understated job on the acting part too. Microchip was well cast as well. So were Soap and Budiansky(sp). I liked Julie Benz from Angel and Dexter, but I don't think they had much to do with her character. The ultraviolence was cool too.

The biggest killer for me were the lame villains. For one, the thick and fake accents of the mobsters threw me off. The guy playing Jigsaw looked the part, and the Jigsaw makeup was good, but his take on the character turned him into a low rent 1989 Joker. Looney B in Jim was even worse. I was expecting a wildman, or a Hannibal Lecter, not a dude jumping around. I also didn't care for the black Irish guys, who also liked to jump around. The villains were totally weak and diminished the film. They were too cartoony to make the cool violence hit home.

There wasn't much of a story either, but War Zone didn't need a great story, just some good villains and a couple nice set ups to allow the Punisher to mow down bad guys. Throwing Julie Benz and the kid in there was awkward. At first I thought it was going to lead to a great character moment for the Punisher, as he was forced to deal with the consequences of the collateral damage from his war on crime, but it turned very quickly into a typical damsel and child in distress type of storyline.

I probably would've done something different with Benz's storyline, something a bit more gripping. But I truly think all that War Zone needed to be a kickass B-movie was a good villain.

 

[Thundarr]

First of all, I'd like to go on record as saying that I really enjoyed Punisher: War Zone. After two truly dismal attempts to bring The Punisher to life on film, this was the best yet. I'm not saying it's a great film. I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement. But I did find it enjoyable. As for what I would've done differently?

1) I would have made Pitssy, Ink, and Maginty more like their comic book versions. To be honest, I didn't even recognize the names as being from the comics when I saw the film. I didn't realize they were legitimate Punisher Comic characters until I read it on this thread. After going back and rereading those books, I deffinately agree that the characters should've been based on the comics in more than just name only.

2) I wouldn't have killed off Micro. I'd have kept him around for a possible sequal. Maybe have him design the Battle Van or something.

3) I would've made Jigsaw tougher. I'd also not kill him off, or at least not in such an obviously permanent fashion. In the comics, Jigsaw was always the one villain Frank could never quite kill. He messed up his face, shot him a number of times, beat him half to death, put him in intensive care, but never seems to be able to kill him.

4) Loony Bin Jim was a little too over the top. A characature of a psychotic killer. I would've made him more subtle, like the psychos the actor portrayed on CSI, Law + Order: SVU, Bait, etc. More Hannibal Lectar, less (Tim Burton's) Joker.

5) The FBI agent's wife and daughter could go. They could've been written better and had they been I would insist on keeping them. As it is I couldn't care less if they stayed or got cut.

6) The whole army recruitment with the American flag in the background was a little too cartoony. I'd have kept the montage, but cut the General Patton "homage".

Other than those few minor quibbles, I thought they did a fine job with the movie. I'm hoping they do a straight up sequel with the same guy playing Frank Castle, and maybe have The Punisher square off against Barracuda. I could totally see Michael Clark Duncan wearing the gold capped teeth with "F**k You" etched into them.

 

[Microchip]

I agree with pretty much everything you said there. An average movie that a decent amount of work could have turned into a good movie. I totally agree that Microchip should have lived, and I think it would have been an interesting dynamic if instead of him tied to the pillar, it was the girl on one side and her mother on the other. THAT would be a real conflict for the Punisher.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if I agree on making Pittsy and Ink more like in the comics. We've already got Loony Bin Jim pretty much playing a combination of the two, and even if he cooled it off that'd still be one messed-up group. Sure, Pittsy wasn't OUR Pittsy, but I think the guy who played him in the movie did a good job.

 

[DarKush]

Oh yeah, keeping Microchip alive would've been a good thing. I couldn't believe they killed him off esp. with the near perfect casting of Wayne Knight. It was almost like they weren't planning to do a sequel.

Micro could be the brain and the comic relief, and could've potentially played off well against Castle's grimness. A big mistake on top of a lot of mistakes which doomed this film.

But that being said, I did like it, but not enough to pay 20 bucks to own it, which is saying a lot I suppose.