Fant4stic "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

[Willie Lumpkin]

This probably belongs on the Thing thread, but we've seen many, many CGI characters done with motion capture suits. And I think one thing that makes the Hulk more difficult is that he's too big to do with a motion capture suit.

Ben doesn't have that problem, and I expect we're getting to a point that CGI with a motion capture suit is coming close to the cost of doing a suit - at least for a character like the Thing.

 

[bubbadoom]

This probably belongs on the Thing thread, but we've seen many, many CGI characters done with motion capture suits. And I think one thing that makes the Hulk more difficult is that he's too big to do with a motion capture suit.

Ben doesn't have that problem, and I expect we're getting to a point that CGI with a motion capture suit is coming close to the cost of doing a suit - at least for a character like the Thing.

the characters size has little to do with the motion capture technique.

there is no way that a good digital character is any where near as cost effective as a good practical character - CGI will always be more expensive.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

the characters size has little to do with the motion capture technique.

there is no way that a good digital character is any where near as cost effective as a good practical character - CGI will always be more expensive.

I can't claim any expertise other than common sense, but my common sense tells me neither of those points are true.

Having a character on set, interacting with the environment and then laying a digital image over that character mapped to their movements HAS to be easier than inserting a digital image with only limited a limited idea of how he's going to move and interact in the scene, how light will strike him, etc.

And as for expense of a digital character, while we may not be there yet, I have little doubt that hardware and software will continue to get better - just as it has over the past 30 years - there's no real practical limit to the capabilities and bottom end price of digital technology, but foam rubber, paint, molds etc. will never drop below a certain minimum cost.

We've almost certainly reached a point at which 'digital sets' are less expensive than real sets for grand structures and I expect we will soon reach a point at which digital characters are less expensive than practical characters that require extensive make-up and appliances.

 

[bubbadoom]

I can't claim any expertise other than common sense, but my common sense tells me neither of those points are true.

Having a character on set, interacting with the environment and then laying a digital image over that character mapped to their movements HAS to be easier than inserting a digital image with only limited a limited idea of how he's going to move and interact in the scene, how light will strike him, etc.

And as for expense of a digital character, while we may not be there yet, I have little doubt that hardware and software will continue to get better - just as it has over the past 30 years - there's no real practical limit to the capabilities and bottom end price of digital technology, but foam rubber, paint, molds etc. will never drop below a certain minimum cost.

We've almost certainly reached a point at which 'digital sets' are less expensive than real sets for grand structures and I expect we will soon reach a point at which digital characters are less expensive than practical characters that require extensive make-up and appliances.

I think you are speaking of two different things with regards to mo-cap. Once you have the captured information, it is a some what simple matter to change a characters size and proportions based upon that data. The height of the aliens in Avatar vs the humans for example. Now laying a digital character over an actor that's there vs. adding one to an empty frame is a different matter - each presenting their own problems.

There is no comparison between the costs of employing hundreds of digital artists vs. a hand full of make-up effects artists. Look at the end credits of even a show like MIB3 which had both effects - there are many more digital people than practical. Practical effects always has a limited budget that they nickel and dime all the way through production, while digital is a black hole that sucks money out of a show until its released. Its just common sense.

 

[Human Torch]

From the front page:

A rumor began to circulate two weeks ago that Chronicle star Michael B. Jordan was being eyed for the role of Johnny Storm, AKA The Human Torch, in Josh Trank's upcoming Fantastic Four reboot. The internet almost caught on fire, and the man himself won't say whether there is truth to it this nugget of information or not.

"That's not real yet," Jordan said in an interview with The Huffington Post.

"Everyone knows we're good friends. It's something that if it happened I would be ecstatic," Jordan also told USA Today "giving a big wink." "I'd love to be a part of it."

Jordan's enthusiasm to challenge conventional norms appears to be another indicator that he's up for the role.

"Things change and time goes on, it's 2013 right now," he said. "The characteristics of the Human Torch are his name is Johnny Storm, he's charismatic, and he's a playboy. That's it. You know what I'm saying? That's all there is."

 

[Bruce Malone]

I'd like to hear people's arguments against this potential casting without resorting to bringing up the actor's race? i don't know much about the actor himself but "he's black" doesn't seem like a compelling argument against an actor.

 

[terry78]

That's the only argument they need, it seems.

 

[JP]

It's also the only one they have.

 

[Kelly]

I don't think so, if someone wants the character to have the look that the character has had for the past 50 years, and they have choices in actors they would like to see in that role, theres nothing wrong with that opinion. And that has been one that has been put out there far more than most.

So know, its not the only one that "they" have...

 

[JP]

You just proved me right by giving the same argument.

 

[C. Lee]

Every single thread on this site that has talk about which actor should play whatever comic book character that will be in an upcoming movie or TV show....is about how much the actor looks like the comic book character (with many pics of actor and drawn character to compare). So of course, people are supposed to now NOT talk about how much the actor will look like the character as drawn in the comics?

 

[Lencho01]

Every single thread on this site that has talk about which actor should play whatever comic book character that will be in an upcoming movie or TV show....is about how much the actor looks like the comic book character (with many pics of actor and drawn character to compare). So of course, people are supposed to now NOT talk about how much the actor will look like the character as drawn in the comics?

Agreed. Sure, Johnny's race doesn't make him who he is, but it's the same thing as any other character from the comics and books that people read. Whenever someone is rumored or cast, everything is scrutinized in regards to how much they look like the character or well they act. The look is always brought up first.

 

[JP]

I think Bruce was simply asking for a reason outside of MBJ's race why he wouldn't be a good Johnny Storm. I think that's a fair question...

 

[JP]

Agreed. Sure, Johnny's race doesn't make him who he is, but it's the same thing as any other character from the comics and books that people read. Whenever someone is rumored or cast, everything is scrutinized in regards to how much they look like the character or well they act. The look is always brought up first.

Eh, not always. It was a very quiet minority who had a problem with Robin Sparkles playing Maria Hill. Not too many cared that she wasn't black/Latina. All that mattered was that she was pretty.

And at the end of the day, while comic Maria Hill is nowhere near white, her race has never been a part of who she is as a character, and so it didn't mind that she was being played by a white woman.

 

[bubbadoom]

Eh, not always. It was a very quiet minority who had a problem with Robin Sparkles playing Maria Hill. Not too many cared that she wasn't black/Latina. All that mattered was that she was pretty.

And at the end of the day, while comic Maria Hill is nowhere near white, her race has never been a part of who she is as a character, and so it didn't mind that she was being played by a white woman.

Is that what she's suppose to be in the comics - I never got much of a sense of her ethnicity - looks a little different depending upon the artist - maybe Latina, maybe Mediterranean...

 

[JP]

Is that what she's suppose to be in the comics - I never got much of a sense of her ethnicity - looks a little different depending upon the artist - maybe Latina, maybe Mediterranean...

I don't think it's been addressed, because like Johnny, it's just not an important part of her characters identity. Given her first name, I'd definitely guess she was of Latin decent.

 

[Kelly]

You just proved me right by giving the same argument.

What is wrong with wanting a character to look like he/she has (with a few changes because of style) but for the most part the same for the last 50+ years if you can find an actor that fits that bill, and is also a great actor. Why is it wrong that some want that instead of this choice. It is a matter of opinion...not right/wrong. I guess I could say you are wrong for not being open to this other opinion as well....to me, its just a difference of opinion.

 

[JP]

I never said the opinion was wrong.. ever.

 

[Kelly]

I never said the opinion was wrong.. ever.

I'm not even gonna try on this one.....

 

[JP]

Please do. I have NEVER said it was a wrong opinion. Actually, I think it's a valid opinion. However, Bruce wanted a reason why MBJ is wrong for the part OUTSIDE of his race.. and honestly no one who is against his casting has a valid reason outside of that.


I think you're still confusing my opinion on this casting with my opinion on certain statements that were made in this thread that you asked us not to talk about.

 

[Lencho01]

Eh, not always. It was a very quiet minority who had a problem with Robin Sparkles playing Maria Hill. Not too many cared that she wasn't black/Latina. All that mattered was that she was pretty.

And at the end of the day, while comic Maria Hill is nowhere near white, her race has never been a part of who she is as a character, and so it didn't mind that she was being played by a white woman.

Because she's a relative minor character. Same reason there wasn't much of an uproar about Alicia being Black in the old films or Jasper Sitwell being played by a Hispanic actor now.

 

[bubbadoom]

I don't think it's been addressed, because like Johnny, it's just not an important part of her characters identity. Given her first name, I'd definitely guess she was of Latin decent.

Good examples - she looks very different in all - the last one looks a little like who we got in the movie...

Cobie's birth name is Jacoba Francisca Maria Smulders - I guess it was fate...

 

[bubbadoom]

Because she's a relative minor character. Same reason there wasn't much of an uproar about Alicia being Black in the old films or Jasper Sitwell being played by a Hispanic actor now.

When I first saw Clark Gregg in IRON MAN, I thought he was Jasper Sitwell...

 

[Human Torch]

I think in the case of Maria Hill,it was similar to Heimdall.I was never really into Thor,so when I saw the film,I didn't have any preconceived idea about the character.So it didn't bother me,I just thought he looked cool.

I doubt many in the general public were too familiar with Hill,so not much of a deal would be made out of it.

 

[def28]

Know one knew her ethnicity and she's been shown to have different shades of skin color. She could be white, hispanic or could be just mix of who knows what. RIght now you all are questioning it yourselves. Thats why no one gave a ****. No one knew enough about her. Any comic fan who knows MAria Hill and saw a pic of Cobie from Avengers would know exactly who shes playing just based on the hair. If Maria Hill was Asian or Black and they cast Cobie, it would have been a different situation in terms of fan complaining.