Fant4stic "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

[def28]

Here's a serious question, do Johnny and Sue absolutely, positively have to be related? Would that make or break the movie?

I'm sure you can make a great film with changing lots of aspects and relationships. But why not just make one that's accurate? Fox doesn't have a good rep with these films and they won't gain any fan support from going away from the source. The last thing this film needs is negative buzz.

I guess the bigger question is WHY would you do this - just to explain a casting choice?

Pretty much.

 

[Paradox1]

Don't forget plus sized people, they count just as much.

It was kind of applied that all people should be represented I wouldnt want anyone to feel left out.

 

[Bruce Malone]

I don't believe Jordan being considered really has much to do with his race. The guy behind the new flick was also behind chronicle and he obviously worked with him there. He probably enjoyed working with him and considers him a good actor.

It's not something that's so uncommon at all. A director works with an actor once and then wants to work with him on another project later on. I think it's quite cynical to assume this is some affirmative action/diversity for diversity's sake scenario.

 

[Kelly]

I don't believe Jordan being considered really has much to do with his race. The guy behind the new flick was also behind chronicle and he obviously worked with him there. He probably enjoyed working with him and considers him a good actor.

It's not something that's so uncommon at all. A director works with an actor once and then wants to work with him on another project later on. I think it's quite cynical to assume this is some affirmative action/diversity for diversity's sake scenario.

IMO, I think you are probably right...but also, IMO, that doesn't make it the best decision. I will wait until I see the other choices, but right now, I've seen some pretty damn good choices as well.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Those dynamics can still be exactly the same regardless of race. Ever hear of the term of "brother from another mother"?

Or "sister from another mister"?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I'm sure you can make a great film with changing lots of aspects and relationships. But why not just make one that's accurate? Fox doesn't have a good rep with these films and they won't gain any fan support from going away from the source. The last thing this film needs is negative buzz.

Once again, and no one has answered this anywhere. Will anything be lost in translation if Jordan is cast? Will anything suffer? Will there be a significant difference in the source material if Jordan's cast other than his skin tone?

My guess is the reason why no one could answer it is because there won't be a difference. I'm pretty sure there wasn't negative buzz over Kingpin, nor negative buzz over Nick Fury and there won't be negative buzz for Jordan.

IMO, I think you are probably right...but also, IMO, that doesn't make it the best decision. I will wait until I see the other choices, but right now, I've seen some pretty damn good choices as well.

I think in this case it could be chemistry with the director that gets him over. I honestly think people are blowing the race thing out of proportion because it's been proven that if Jordan was cast, it would be because Trank felt he was the best decision, not because he or Fox wanted a black Human Torch.

 

[def28]

Once again, and no one has answered this anywhere. Will anything be lost in translation if Jordan is cast? Will anything suffer? Will there be a significant difference in the source material if Jordan's cast other than his skin tone?

My guess is the reason why no one could answer it is because there won't be a difference. I'm pretty sure there wasn't negative buzz over Kingpin, nor negative buzz over Nick Fury and there won't be negative buzz for Jordan.

I'm neutral on the whole MBJ casting. I don't think he is the best or worse choice. I think an entertaining actor in the role will win over audiences regardless. I was speaking specifically over making Sue and Johnny not related. I'd prefer Sue be Black if they cast MBJ. Even if Johnny's adopted that's gonna get backlash regardless if it works or not, cause people like to ***** about these things even down to hair color. Fox is not gonna win fans over doing this regardless if it works. Is it worth changing whats been canon for years and are they gaining anything because of it?

 

[Jennifer Walters]

The only people we know in the running are Noel Fisher and Michael B. Jordan. Those are literally the choices as of now.

Now I like Noel Fisher, but out of those two?

Easily Michael B. Jordan is the better Johnny Storm.

 

[Mr. Fixit]

People never think twice about a white straight dude. And that ties in to your character when you face a struggle such as that and why you can't change the skin tone of a minority character.

Okay so Johhny Storm, a character who has been portrayed as white in the comics for some time now by your own definition is a "white straight dude" and with that, also according to you, comes an encapsulation of history with less struggle, a certain level of privilege and everything else that comes along being a "white straight dude".

Never thought about it that way but if you insist all that comes into play simply because a character is white (aka the default) then being white is a VITAL part of his character is it not?

By your own definition of white characters in comics you seem to have argued a stronger case for leaving them white rather than altering them. I'd also say you've made a strong case for leaving every character whatever race they were created as. You simply cannot argue how being white means nothing to a character's roots, then also maintain being white means so much to a character's roots.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I'm neutral on the whole MBJ casting. I don't think he is the best or worse choice. I think an entertaining actor in the role will win over audiences regardless. I was speaking specifically over making Sue and Johnny not related. I'd prefer Sue be Black if they cast MBJ. Even if Johnny's adopted that's gonna get backlash regardless if it works or not, cause people like to ***** about these things even down to hair color. Fox is not gonna win fans over doing this regardless if it works. Is it worth changing whats been canon for years and are they gaining anything because of it?

They're already on this s**tlist with fans. Like with many choices when people get up in arms about things, his performance will win people over.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Okay so Johhny Storm, a character who has been portrayed as white in the comics for some time now by your own definition is a "white straight dude" and with that, also according to you, comes an encapsulation of history with less struggle, a certain level of privilege and everything else that comes along being a "white straight dude".

Never thought about it that way but if you insist all that comes into play simply because a character is white (aka the default) then being white is a VITAL part of his character is it not?

By your own definition of white characters in comics you seem to have argued a stronger case for leaving them white rather than altering them. I'd also say you've made a strong case for leaving every character whatever race they were created as. You simply cannot argue how being white means nothing to a character's roots, then also maintain being white means so much to a character's roots.

The rope it can't stretch any further than you've stretched it, because now it's going to break. Because you are grasssssppppingg soooo tighttttt.

 

[def28]

They're already on this s**tlist with fans. Like with many choices when people get up in arms about things, his performance will win people over.

...I Was talking about ditching the Sue and Johnny relationship. There is no need to change that. Regardless if they can make a good movie out of it or not.

I agree, if its a good performance the majority will love the decision.

 

[Mr. Fixit]

C'mon keep it civil. No need to resort to childish crap and exaggerated text.

How am I grasping at any rope when most of what I typed was literally your own words and descriptions from previous posts?

 

[Jennifer Walters]

C'mon keep it civil. No need to resort to childish crap and exaggerated text.

How am I grasping at any rope when most of what I typed was literally your own words and descriptions from previous posts?

No one says I wasn't being civil? And I certainly wasn't be childish.

All I can say is you're reaching, because as I said in those previous posts that you went back numerous page to cherry pick that the certain level of privilege of a being a social default adds literally nothing to anyone. It just makes them easier to blend in.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Look before you respond.

I'm simply saying. Social default = white straight guy.

External factors are part of their struggle that's how they grow as a character.

Women, gays, lesbians, blacks, etc. They struggle from both external things, internal things and things thrust upon them because of the nature of the human race's history repeating itself.

However there are various social statures and things that can change the course of that for them as well.

I will freely admit being a white gay man (because I can easily pass as white and straight) has made it easier for me than some of my friends, but this is an old ass subject that I don't want to talk about because it has very little relevance with the thread then or now.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I think everyone's pretty civil here.

...I Was talking about ditching the Sue and Johnny relationship. There is no need to change that. Regardless if they can make a good movie out of it or not.

I agree, if its a good performance the majority will love the decision.

I think the relationship wouldn't be ditched if he was, say, adopted. It's not like if he was adopted they won't care for each other. They will still be family, but just not blood family. In an era where many movies have embraced that family is more than blood, I think this aspect could be further explored.

 

[Mr. Fixit]

"The rope it can't stretch any further than you've stretched it, because now it's going to break."

^^ Unnecessary sarcasm from start to finish. You either launched into your defense this way because you felt threatened by my logic or you were hoping to offend me and simply start a fight.

"you are grasssssppppingg soooo tighttttt"

^^ Childish. Just type like an adult and we can keep things moving.

Now, speaking of keeping things moving...

"certain level of privilege of a being a social default adds literally nothing to anyone"...

I disagree. By your own assessment that is a VERY distinct characterization. In fact it is so strong I'd argue it is a vital ingredient to any given character's background and origin regardless of their skin tone.

Being privileged, having higher social status historically, being more accepted, having to struggle less in life....etc...these are all very defining characteristics you are pointing out...and then just willingly tossing away simply because you happen to like a certain actor of another race.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Okay. You're just reading into text now.

Apparently sarcasm makes you childish, go figure.

I'll make sure to be deadly serious next time.

That way you won't get your feelings hurt so easily and assume things over an internet text post.

That was me being childish FYI since you want to thrust that on me.

 

[Project862006]

The only people we know in the running are Noel Fisher and Michael B. Jordan. Those are literally the choices as of now.

Now I like Noel Fisher, but out of those two?

Easily Michael B. Jordan is the better Johnny Storm.

^this

look at noel fisher he is white,young and blonde but he would be awful i like him as an actor he is great on shameless but he can not play johnny even tho he is white and blonde

he is not what i call a good looking dude he can play a drug addict and a creepy kid pretty well but a good looking playboy lol

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I can't really comment on Noel Fisher because I had no idea who he was until this page.

 

[Hypestyle]

I'd like to see a nova-explosion in the film. Show what Johnny can really do.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I can't really comment on Noel Fisher because I had no idea who he was until this page.

I've only ever seen him on Shameless and he's a good actor.

But I just can't see Johnny in him. And very seldomly do I set out to cast favorite comic book characters because we end up with situations like this where things aren't "ideal" by ''standards" (Saw this on another site. Still wrapping my head around what that means.)

This is why I purposely stay out of casting rumor threads for the most part, but for some reason I told myself to check this one out.

I shouldn't have.

 

[def28]

I think the relationship wouldn't be ditched if he was, say, adopted. It's not like if he was adopted they won't care for each other. They will still be family, but just not blood family. In an era where many movies have embraced that family is more than blood, I think this aspect could be further explored.

Yeah, I'm sure that would be fine. Fans would still be pissed I think, but I'd def consider that related. I just don't want the Brother Sister thing dropped. It's essential. Gonna kind of go back to my first post on that matter and just question if changing the canon is for the better or not necessary. I don't really see what they gain from the whole thing. I think studios can change alot of things and still make a solid film, but sometimes I don't understand why they feel they need to when the source works fine. In FF's case I just want a better movie thats recognizable. My expectations are low here. I havn't liked Fox's previous changes and taking away relationships especially in the X-films have pissed me off. Even in FC which I like alot. It's tough to have faith in the studio when they have done more wrong then right and have shown zero love for fans of the source.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I'm too stubborn not to look in casting threads.

 

[Mr. Fixit]

Okay. You're just reading into text now.

Apparently sarcasm makes you childish, go figure.

I'll make sure to be deadly serious next time.

That way you won't get your feelings hurt so easily and assume things over an internet text post.

That was me being childish FYI since you want to thrust that on me.

Get it straight.

Tyyyyyypppiiing like thissssss makes you childishhhhhh.

Opening up rour response by telling me I'm stretching some imaginary rope is sarcastic.

Again, I'm not interested in battling you as that is pointless and boring...so drop it.

I'm just trying to make you understand you are undermining your own argument for having an actor of another race portray Johhny by also mentioning tons of reasons why a character being white implies so many things.