The Dark Knight Frank Miller on TDK

[[A]]

The rise & fall of Dent. Joker just causing chaos.

Batman & Gordon saving Gotham

I always called the movie that. When I was going to the movies with a friend, I told him think of it as the rise and fall of Harvey Dent.

 

[Caped Crusader]

I wouldnt say he's "barely" in it but TDK is definitely not focused just on Batman like all of the other Batman films

Which doesnt bother me one bit. Long Halloween wasnt focused on just Batman

 

[[A]]

Well, we already knew him. From the first one.

 

[p.marlowe]

Frank Miller has a very strange point of view of things. He once said in a Daredevil special feature that he got into comics to make them more cinematic. He stays in them to make them less so. Brian Michael Bendis once wrote that Miller sent him a congratulatory note after winning an Eisner for his work with Alex Maleev on Daredevil. If you ever read those stories, Matt Murdock was the most interesting character in comics. Because of his internal dialogue.

I'm just saying that Miller has a distorted view of what is good. He is riding off his success from twenty years ago, and he thinks his opinion is as valid as Alex Ross'. Both are over rated IMO

 

[Anita18]

I'm just saying that Miller has a distorted view of what is good. He is riding off his success from twenty years ago, and he thinks his opinion is as valid as Alex Ross'. Both are over rated IMO

Psh, everyone's opinion is valid. I certainly welcome everyone's freedom to have their own thoughts.

What may or may not be valid is the importance that certain opinions are given.

 

[Batman15]

I'm just saying that Miller has a distorted view of what is good. He is riding off his success from twenty years ago, and he thinks his opinion is as valid as Alex Ross'. Both are over rated IMO

Thats not true.. If you're dealing with comics and comic book based movies I think Frank millers opinion (especially with batman) means more than Alex Ross'.. Miller shaped the character into what he is today with his work on him, and not to mention his OTHER comic book related work has been pretty successful to date at the movies.. Alex Ross is mostly known to comic fanboys for his pretty paintings and his Spider-Man 2 opening credits stuff.. Frank miller is more relevant to both the character of batman as well as what happens in hollywood.

 

[p.marlowe]

Psh, everyone's opinion is valid. I certainly welcome everyone's freedom to have their own thoughts.

What may or may not be valid is the importance that certain opinions are given.

Yeah, you're right. I'm maybe being a mite harsh.

 

[p.marlowe]

Thats not true.. If you're dealing with comics and comic book based movies I think Frank millers opinion (especially with batman) means more than Alex Ross'.. Miller shaped the character into what he is today with his work on him, and not to mention his OTHER comic book related work has been pretty successful to date at the movies.. Alex Ross is mostly known to comic fanboys for his pretty paintings and his Spider-Man 2 opening credits stuff.. Frank miller is more relevant to both the character of batman as well as what happens in hollywood.

What I'm trying to convey is my belief that creators such as Ross and Miller automatically assume that their opinion is pure fact. It's not. Yes indeed Miller's work from twenty years ago has helped to shape these particular Batman films.

 

[Batman15]

What I'm trying to convey is my belief that creators such as Ross and Miller automatically assume that their opinion is pure fact. It's not. Yes indeed Miller's work from twenty years ago has helped to shape these particular Batman films.

Well yeah he probably finds it to be fact.. but that's because its an opinion. HIS opinion, making it fact to him.. And also what makes it somewhat relevant is, I'm sure someone asked him his opinion, KNOWING how much of an impact he has had on this character his thoughts on the current most mainstream version are pretty relevant to people. It's not like he held a press conference strictly to alert the media about his thoughts on the movie... it probably just came up in an interview. And putting Ross in the same league as Miller just doesn't fit, sure they both worked on the character but it'd be pretty hard for anyone to debate who has had more of an impact on Batman and his history.

 

[Crook]

What I'm trying to convey is my belief that creators such as Ross and Miller automatically assume that their opinion is pure fact. It's not.

Actually, this is you assuming. Ironic.

 

[p.marlowe]

Actually, this is you assuming. Ironic.

Isn't it?

"Opinion's are like *******s. Everyone's got them."

 

[Art Damage]

After ****ing over The Spirit, Miller isn't allowed to have an opinion on other people's work.

Agreed, what the hell Miller....Batman is an essential part of the movie and he's in it quite enough..if not more than in Begins.

 

[Rasputin911]

Christ people, overall he was very complimentary toward the film. He just wanted to see more of The Dark Knight himself. And he isn't the only one, because its true - this really isn't a Batman movie. Its more a Gotham movie, focusing on all of the city's big players. Whether thats good or bad is everyone's opinion.

The vitriol and spite towards Miller is astounding sometimes on these boards. Yeah, we all know ASBAR sucks. But let's move on. Nolan isn't God, and criticism of TDK shouldn't be taboo around here.

 

[Doctor Jones]

It's his goddamn opinion. Deal with it. Apart from the Batman thing. I think he could mean Bruce Wayne. Batman had tons of screentime, I think the most he's ever gotten in film.

 

[wootbaby]

Fanboys don't love Frank Miller as much as they used to. His recent work hasn't lived up to the greatness of his past work in their eyes.

As for the "valid criticism"... I don't understand what he meant by "Batman wasn't in it enough"? Does he not count the time Bruce Wayne was on screen? Or did he expect Nolan to just shoe horn Batman action scenes into the script with no rhyme or reason other than to just provide cool action scenes? Miller didn't write Batman Year One that way. Why did he expect the Nolans to?

the primary strength and primary weakness of Miller's work is that it's inexorably GROUNDED in a particular time and place of Americana. DKR and other works Miller did was a fundamental reaction to the economic and social downturn in the 70s and the materialism and patriotism of the 80s. it was so revolutionary not necessarily for the storytelling (although it is first rate) but more due to WHERE comics were at that point, and Miller's social commentary... things like using Reagan's discombobulated head or having the joker wax letterman doesn't ahve the resonance it once did. the idea that gangs have social and political impact isn't something that's alien or scary in a world that's embraced gangster rap and idolized "ghetto fabulous." introducing a black catwoman or female robin are things that are beyond blase and completely mainstream.

as a result a younger reader reading DKR really wouldn't think it half the work that contemporaries in the 80s did (unless that young reader actually had enough knowledge to understand the history of comics and of america during that time to appreciate it)

Miller's work does NOT carry well, nor has he managed to remain current. that's not necessarily a bad thing. any revolutionary artist almost by definition does not carry with the trends of the time and are linked strongly to one single time and stylistic impression. Miller is not alone... famous artists like Monet who were super influential got left behind when the fashion in art left Impressionism. famous artists like lennon and mccartney are linked to a time and genre of the 60s and mccartney hasnt stayed current.

it doesn't really detract from the work they've done. MIller is one of the most important comic book artists in history... probably the most important modern one. use your brains and nuts... you dont have to be spoon fed opinions by other ppl and they dont have to always agree with you. Miller isn't a good director so obviously Spirit was not good, but his opinions on batman are always interesting

 

[Wedge A.]

I guess Miller doesn't know what an ensemble is.

 

[Rasputin911]

I guess Miller doesn't know what an ensemble is.

no, he does. He just would rather it weren't an ensemble, and was more of a Batman movie.

It's opinion, not ignorance.

 

[hatebox]

Frank Miller is worse than Hitler.

 

[Rasputin911]

^

lol

 

[Doctor Jones]

Frank Miller is worse than Hitler.

:facepalm

You know what?

Spoiler

:facepalm

 

[redfirebird2008]

I wouldnt say he's "barely" in it but TDK is definitely not focused just on Batman like all of the other Batman films

Which doesnt bother me one bit. Long Halloween wasnt focused on just Batman

All the other Batman films? Batman Begins is the only one that focuses entirely on Bruce/Batman. The rest of the films focus on a wider range of characters.

 

[hatebox]

:facepalm

No, you're right, that was too far - he's definitely worse than Stalin though.

 

[Doctor Jones]

No, you're right, that was too far - he's definitely worse than Stalin though.

No, you just went further.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I dont really get why so many people care what Miller thinks, if you like his work you like it, that dosent mean to have to agree with his views.

 

[hatebox]

No, you just went further.

See, this being the internet, I can't tell if you're out-sarcasming my sarcasm.