The Dark Knight Frank Miller on TDK

[Batman]

Look, I hate Frank Miller's current work as much as many here, but since when does that discount a man's right to an opinion? He was asked a question about the film. You're all acting like he should have just lied and said he felt that they got everything right, simply because of the fact that he's done some mediocre work in the present. He wasn't asked "Hey, Mr. Miller, how does The Dark Knight stack up against your current work?". He was asked how he felt about TDK, and he delivered an answer. An answer, might I add, that could have been a hell of alot worse.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Any responses from Adam West?




Maybe Frank should have responded like RDJ did.

 

[redfirebird2008]

He wasn't asked "Hey, Mr. Miller, how does The Dark Knight stack up against your current work?"

Now if there was ever a case where he would definitely lie, it's right here. If he WAS asked to compare, say, The Dark Knight with his movie The Spirit, what are the odds he would actually admit that his film is the lesser of the two? I'd say not a chance in hell.

 

[ultimatefan]

Not only Batman is in the movie, as Bruce Wayne he has a more fully-realized arc in this movie than in any movie of the old franchise and at least as much as in BB. It´s not his fault the media is obsessed with Ledger due to his death. Batman was barely in the movie in every sense in 89, he had no arc, no discernible change or growth, in TDK he learned to accept that his mission is not temporary, that the normal existence he dreamed of is beyond his reach, that his destiny is to remain being Batman, and yet that he will be more alone than ever in that mission.

And he IS Batman, not "the goddamn Batman".

 

[DrawingBlanks]

Frank Miller certainly has the right to his opinions.

But I think he's a bit of a hypocrite. I personally think The Dark Knight was more about Batman than Frank's own Year One. which seemed like it was trying to do what TDK did with the city and Batman's impact, but it fell flat and was more Gordon's story..

 

[Doctor Jones]

Exactly! Especially since Frank Miller can only dream of being in the same league as Chris Nolan as far as being a director is concerned.

Wow.

 

[Batman1018]

That's funny because where is Batman in ASB&R? Miller, in ten issues, has destoyed all that he did well for Batman in the 80's. ASB&R has no representation of a Batman I know, and whether or not there was a lack of Batman in TDK does not matter. It's the fact that Miller's opinion doesn't matter.

 

[Batman1018]

Any responses from Adam West?




Maybe Frank should have responded like RDJ did.

How did RDJ respond?

 

[Doctor Jones]

That's funny because where is Batman in ASB&R? Miller, in ten issues, has destoyed all that he did well for Batman in the 80's. ASB&R has no representation of a Batman I know, and whether or not there was a lack of Batman in TDK does not matter. It's the fact that Miller's opinion doesn't matter.

It's a SATIRE!!! Don't you get it? It was meant to be humorous. I don't get why people don't see this. That's funny isn't it?

You people need to get ahold of yourselves.

 

[Franklin Richards]

How did RDJ respond?

"The Dark Knight". "My whole thing is that that I saw 'The Dark Knight'. I feel like I'm dumb because I feel like I don't get how many things that are so smart. It's like a Ferrari engine of storytelling and script writing and I'm like, 'That's not my idea of what I want to see in a movie.' I loved 'The Prestige' but didn't understand 'The Dark Knight'. Didn't get it, still can't tell you what happened in the movie, what happened to the character and in the end they need him to be a bad guy. I'm like, 'I get it. This is so high brow and so f--king smart, I clearly need a college education to understand this movie.' You know what? F-ck DC comics. That's all I have to say and that's where I'm really coming from."

 

[Doctor Jones]

How did RDJ respond?

He liked the film. But with his sense of humor people took it the wrong way and like, Miller bashed him.

 

[Doc Samson]

the primary strength and primary weakness of Miller's work is that it's inexorably GROUNDED in a particular time and place of Americana. DKR and other works Miller did was a fundamental reaction to the economic and social downturn in the 70s and the materialism and patriotism of the 80s. it was so revolutionary not necessarily for the storytelling (although it is first rate) but more due to WHERE comics were at that point, and Miller's social commentary... things like using Reagan's discombobulated head or having the joker wax letterman doesn't ahve the resonance it once did. the idea that gangs have social and political impact isn't something that's alien or scary in a world that's embraced gangster rap and idolized "ghetto fabulous." introducing a black catwoman or female robin are things that are beyond blase and completely mainstream.

as a result a younger reader reading DKR really wouldn't think it half the work that contemporaries in the 80s did (unless that young reader actually had enough knowledge to understand the history of comics and of america during that time to appreciate it)

Miller's work does NOT carry well, nor has he managed to remain current. that's not necessarily a bad thing. any revolutionary artist almost by definition does not carry with the trends of the time and are linked strongly to one single time and stylistic impression. Miller is not alone... famous artists like Monet who were super influential got left behind when the fashion in art left Impressionism. famous artists like lennon and mccartney are linked to a time and genre of the 60s and mccartney hasnt stayed current.

it doesn't really detract from the work they've done. MIller is one of the most important comic book artists in history... probably the most important modern one. use your brains and nuts... you dont have to be spoon fed opinions by other ppl and they dont have to always agree with you. Miller isn't a good director so obviously Spirit was not good, but his opinions on batman are always interesting

Couldn't of said that any better. My two first comics growing up that were personally mine (and not stolen from my brothers) was TDKR & Watchmen, so call me bias, but I loved Miller & Moore at that point in time because of what they accomplished, and how they did it in a completely different way. Batman might have been going back to his darker ways previously, but Miller made it cinematic to me.

Now if you never grew up at that time, and are only familiar with his recent stuff, then by all means I understand the hate. But his opinion is wholly valid. There is a definite problem around here with even questioning the greatness of TDK, but there are plenty of issues with the movie. However it doesn't lessen it's quality, and Frank Miller never said anything that bad to begin with.

 

[Milk.Bad.Choice]

To anyone who doesn't like ASBAR:

While I was a bit skeptical when I first started the series, the last two issues made it obvious to me. Frank is writing this series in a way that should obviously be read in a collection and doesn't lend itself very well to monthly comic form, especially with the delays.

First look to the context of the story. It's meant to take place right after Year One, while Bruce is still getting control of the ropes of being the entity of the Batman. Most comic fans have the image of the controlled, calm, precise Batman lodged into their mind that they forget that this is Early Batman. The Batman in this series could very well BECOME the one everyone knows, but he isn't. Not yet.

This story isn't just of Dick becoming Robin, but of Bruce solidifying himself and his methods of being Batman. He makes mistakes, because he obviously hasn't been doing it long. He becomes a caricature of himself, and it takes Robin nearly killing Hal to make Batman realize that. He is just now beginning to see what he has become in Robin's actions, which scares him. In the last issues, he knows he's wrong and look for him to start portraying his intellectual side, to influence Robin.

The story is obviously a character-driven physiological piece. It's not the conventional Batman, because it's not meant to be. You don't like the 'Goddamn' Batman because you're not supposed to. It's not just another Batman story: It's the story of a man driven by revenge, that through his failures and mistakes, eventually becomes the conventional Batman. Frank views the story of one like a human life: You aren't the same man from 25 to 30.

Frank just chose to delve into the Batman's most conflicted period of his life. Once the arc is finished and you see what I'm seeing right now, it was start to look like a original masterpiece of character development.

 

[Batman1018]

It's a SATIRE!!! Don't you get it? It was meant to be humorous. I don't get why people don't see this. That's funny isn't it?

You people need to get ahold of yourselves.

I do get it! and that's the point. He did so much for Batman and established some great things. Why, as a writer, would you go and poke fun at everything you yourself helped make great?

 

[Batman1018]

Milk.Bad.Choice and Doc Samson.

Both of you explain it the way it should be. Like I said before, I understand what ASB&R is about, and it shows the edges that Batman would realistically come towards. I got that. My problem with the book, is that first it is a satire and my reasons against that are above. Second, most of the book; Language, Characterization, etc.; is what I feel as Miller just trying to be edgy like he always is. If someone wanted to write a book and have Batman and Batgirl and whoever else scream the obscenities that they do in this book, that would be fine as long as it was understood why. I have nothing against language or certain "edgy" themes, I am a huge Ennis fan. My problem is that Miller isn't approaching this book like that, he is simply doing it for a reaction and I see nothing to disprove that. If anyone can show me that, feel free.

 

[redfirebird2008]

He liked the film. But with his sense of humor people took it the wrong way and like, Miller bashed him.

The quotes I've read from RDJ don't sound like a guy who liked the film. Sounds like he was confused by it.

 

[DACrowe]

I respect Miller's opinion. He raises a good point as I've met fanboys who call Batman in this movie the spiritual descendent of Huck Finn (I **** you not) and to me that is crazy talk.

I personally disagree with Miller's view on superhero movies. He prefers the film medium to bend over and look like a comic book. While that worked with Sin City, as a whole I think it wouldn't work with most projects or would get really frustrating after 15 minutes (which I have a bad feeling sums up The Spirit). But I respect his views.

On a small note, TDK moves like a crime drama and I'd say Joker and Harvey Dent are just as major leads as Batman, with Jim Gordon not far behind those three. The movie moves a lot like comic book graphic novels, which generally turn Batman stories into ensemble pieces, because Batman alone from his perspective does not generally work in a lot of stories. So this complaint is interesting, as Miller is one of the few who never wrote Batman that way.

 

[8blades]

FINALLY!
Thank you Frank Miller.
Yes, the Nolans forgot that they were making a Batman movie. Batman was hardly in that film. I've seen it enough times to say, this is no Batman movie.

 

[8blades]

Frank Miller certainly has the right to his opinions.

But I think he's a bit of a hypocrite. I personally think The Dark Knight was more about Batman than Frank's own Year One. which seemed like it was trying to do what TDK did with the city and Batman's impact, but it fell flat and was more Gordon's story..

What the F are you on about? Have you read Year One? How is TDK more of a Batman story than Year One? Year One showed you Batman through Gordon's eyes. TDK had a guy in a cool futuristic suit, popping up from time to time.

 

[redfirebird2008]

FINALLY!
Thank you Frank Miller.
Yes, the Nolans forgot that they were making a Batman movie. Batman was hardly in that film. I've seen it enough times to say, this is no Batman movie.

t:

 

[8blades]

t:

And I await for the mindless drones to say how very wrong I am...t:

 

[Doctor Jones]

I do get it! and that's the point. He did so much for Batman and established some great things. Why, as a writer, would you go and poke fun at everything you yourself helped make great?

Who cares? There could be alot of answers to that.

 

["V"]

You have to respect Miller for his work in the past, after all, his work has been a major influence in these films. However, I wouldn't hold much stock in his opinion these days. All-Star Batman & Robin is terrible and The Spirit looks doomed.

 

[NickyTea]

I quite like Miller's books.
He'll I even like it when other people make 'em into movies.

Saw those six scenes from Spirit.
He needs to stay away from movies. Forever.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Saw those six scenes from Spirit.
He needs to stay away from movies. Forever.

Kind of puts a new perspective on, "You've changed things...forever," doesn't it?