Free presbyterian church punishes girl for being abused

[kainedamo]

I watched a documentary on tv just now. It was about this girl in Toronto, when she was 13 years old she was in the free presbyterian church. She had been sexually abused repeatidly by a member of that church. When the church learned of this, what did they do? The girl, now and adult, and her family insist that the church treated her like she was the perpetrator of the entire incident. She had been punished by the church. Her jobs at the church were taken away, and they had demanded that she stand in a room full of church members and "repent". This seems like a story from the dark ages, but this all happened about 10 years ago or so. I'm having difficulty finding details on the net, but I assure you that this is all true.

So the girl had refused. She left the church, as did her family, and they felt unsatisfied that they were going to do anything to the man that abused their girl. So they contacted the police. The family, along with a former minister that worked at the church, acted as witnesses and got the dude prosecuted. He pleaded guilty I think? His sentence was one year under house arrest, which is quite rediculous. What I found probably most shocking during the entire documentary was how unapologetic the church leader was. To this day he insists that the girl had to be punished for "her part" in the incident. The church's stance, apparently, is that a 13 year old girl can seduce a man. The judge in the case had plenty of harsh remarks about this church, he didn't think they considered the emotional or psychological pain the girl had went through, indeed they made it seem like the girl was the perpetrator and not the victim.

Another shock is that this has split up the family. Surprisingly, one of the members of the family has taken the church's side, he's still with them, and he has said that the church has done everything it can do to ease this situation.

Not really. The girl, now an adult with kids herself, has never ever gotten an actual apology from these wackos.

Does religion turn people into nuts, or are nuts attracted to religion? I just don't know. Completely disgusting case.

 

[screech_turbo]

rat-bastards.

 

[bored]

Nuts are attracted to religion. It's an easy thing for some to obsess over.

 

[DV8]

I think I saw this too . . . . pretty ucked fup . . . .

 

[DV8]

Do you wish you were the church leader that molested the girl, KD?

 

[newmexneon]

Stupid Christians

 

[Logan Howlett]

These are those Christian extremests who basicaly like to make up their own rules on God, and what is right and wat is wrong. These people basicaly belive that Women are the cause of all sin, and are to blame for the majority of sin. They are sick, mentaly contained morons who deserve to be eaten by lions! These are the same ***cers who go marching around claiming that if you dn't believe as they do than your going to hell! The trot around riding their high horses, and holding their noses high, when the majority of them are sick as **** themselves! but its ok if your a male member of the church, cuz then all you have to do is ak for forgiveness..........**** THAT IN THE NECK! These are the same bastards like Pat Robertson who said that the twin towers were destroyed becuause GOD is no longer protecting us, and that GOD created Hurricane Katrina to KILL all of those horrible sinners......**** HIIM, **** THE EXTREMEST IN GENERAL! Their all sick rat-bastards who deserve to be kicked in the face!

Personaly I belive in God, but when your beliefs start to come off like a Nazi or a KKK member....re-evalutae yur ****!

 

[Corinthian™]

Does religion turn people into nuts, or are nuts attracted to religion?

It goes both ways

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Does religion turn people into nuts, or are nuts attracted to religion?

Yes, very much so.

 

[*Id*]

Quick! Someone get celldog in here so that he can continue preaching about women getting their share of rights in the Western world only because of "Judeo-Christian principles".

 

[deemar325]

That's so messed up!

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Does religion turn people into nuts, or are nuts attracted to religion? I just don't know. Completely disgusting case.

Dude like 98% of humanity is nuts, and the rest are going insane from being surrounded by crazy people.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Dude like 98% of humanity is nuts, and the rest are going insane from being surrounded by crazy people.

I had one incredible out-of-body experience when I was young, before I'd ever done drugs or anything, and I've come up with a theory that started as a joke, but the older I get, the more plausible it sounds.

It's the "Asylum Earth" theory.
I was thinking (post O.O.B.E.) that we are "spiritual" beings, But it's like, There's this race of celestial, spiritual god-like creatures (those would be the other entities I met during the O.O.B.E.).

And they are sort of perfected, but when one of their number is, or becomes insane, or "damaged/sick", or just plain "evil"...for their own safety, or possibly as a sort of suh-LOW rehabilitation process that we wouldn't even be able to perceive "as it happens".......they kind of confine the offending member to planet Earth.

In this scenario, our Human bodies would be analogous to straight-jackets.
Because we all have that intangible part of our personalities (which started out as one of those spiritual beings), but we are all trapped or restrained, inside these bodies, much like we here on Earth would trap a violent, insane person in a straight jacket to prevent him from harming himself or others.

That would explain my O.O.B.E., the "entities" I met, and the fact that when I got too far outside my body, it all got *WHAM* shut down toot-sweet.
It was sort of like "Alert! Alert! Escapee (me) in Sector Utah!"

And it would also explain the fact that, I TRULY believe, that every single person on Earth is either insane or f***ed-up, and if you meet someone, and DON'T think they are insane or f***ed-Up? it only means that you don't know them well enough yet.

'Cause seriously, look at the world, look at it's leaders, look at the insanity and outright stupidity/brutality/banality of society.
I have a lot of really close friends and to our amazement, we took a tally and every single one of our families were "f***ed up" in some way, to varying degrees.

This could be the asylum for the sentients.*shrug*

 

[Duende Verde]

It's always those sexy children's fault!

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

When little school girls intentionally dress in those sexy "little school girl" outfits, they're asking for it.

BTW, is that not a little disturbing? I open up BOTH of our free weekly papers here and some magazines to the BACK pages, and there are always "escorts" and videos and whatnot that brag about all the girls dressed up like little catholic schoolgirls.......and it's some legal-aged skank, but she's got her hair in pig-tails and she's sucking on a lollipop with a mock-innocent look on her face.

This is a very common fetish, and yet people are outraged when people are attracted to under-aged girls.

It seems to me that if you locked up every closet pedophile or every closet "statutory-rapist" on Earth, Earth would be a deserted ghost town.

hmmm


At least when my last girlfriend asked me to role-play, it was as "old professor" and "COLLEGE co-ed".

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I had one incredible out-of-body experience when I was young, before I'd ever done drugs or anything, and I've come up with a theory that started as a joke, but the older I get, the more plausible it sounds.

It's the "Asylum Earth" theory.
I was thinking (post O.O.B.E.) that we are "spiritual" beings, But it's like, There's this race of celestial, spiritual god-like creatures (those would be the other entities I met during the O.O.B.E.).

And they are sort of perfected, but when one of their number is, or becomes insane, or "damaged/sick", or just plain "evil"...for their own safety, or possibly as a sort of suh-LOW rehabilitation process that we wouldn't even be able to perceive "as it happens".......they kind of confine the offending member to planet Earth.

In this scenario, our Human bodies would be analogous to straight-jackets.
Because we all have that intangible part of our personalities (which started out as one of those spiritual beings), but we are all trapped or restrained, inside these bodies, much like we here on Earth would trap a violent, insane person in a straight jacket to prevent him from harming himself or others.

That would explain my O.O.B.E., the "entities" I met, and the fact that when I got too far outside my body, it all got *WHAM* shut down toot-sweet.
It was sort of like "Alert! Alert! Escapee (me) in Sector Utah!"

And it would also explain the fact that, I TRULY believe, that every single person on Earth is either insane or f***ed-up, and if you meet someone, and DON'T think they are insane or f***ed-Up? it only means that you don't know them well enough yet.

'Cause seriously, look at the world, look at it's leaders, look at the insanity and outright stupidity/brutality/banality of society.
I have a lot of really close friends and to our amazement, we took a tally and every single one of our families were "f***ed up" in some way, to varying degrees.

This could be the asylum for the sentients.*shrug*

Don't take this the wrong way, but that theory is actually remarkably similar to "dianetics".

 

[JewishHobbit]

Stupid Christians

Way to be stupid and classify this case as a solid Christian fault. This isn't a Christian thing, it's an individual thing. Those people did wrong... but it was those people. My church has seen this type of situation and have handled it in much better ways. Hundreds of churches have had situations like this come up, and they handle it in better ways. If you're going to criticize, then criticize the idiots who did wrong in this situation... not the whole belief.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Don't take this the wrong way, but that theory is actually remarkably similar to "dianetics".

minus the Xenu!

Either way, at least (unlike religious people) it's a half-joke to me. Anyone that actually builds their life around something that isn't demonstrable, empirically provable, etc. is being.......um, lessee, C.Lee chews me out if I say "stupid"...Dew tells me to use more "tact",.....uh.......

Okay, I'll let the Hype castrate me and say, anyone that builds their life around an unprovable cosmology, I, uh, strongly disagree with them.

OOH! How entertaining.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Way to be stupid and classify this case as a solid Christian fault. This isn't a Christian thing, it's an individual thing. Those people did wrong....

uh, not if you worship the God who's "the same yesterday, today and forever", unchanging in his holy justice, etc.

Do I really have to bring up the point that Jesus made it clear that he didn't come to do away with the law, and that his "Father" was the God of Abraham, and that Abraham's God said that if a woman was raped and didn't scream, then both she and the rapist should be put to death? or that the Biblical God said that if she DID scream, then the rapist had to marry the victim and that they could never be divorced?

There's a HUMUNGOUS Christian precedent for punishing the victims of sexual abuse as well as the perpetrators.

It IS a very, very "Christian" thing.
The same logic you're putting forth can be used against you, "Just because Jewish Hobbit's individual church says it's wrong doesn't mean you can classify all "Christians" as if they'd agree with him."

 

[maxwell's demon]

I had one incredible out-of-body experience when I was young, before I'd ever done drugs or anything, and I've come up with a theory that started as a joke, but the older I get, the more plausible it sounds.

It's the "Asylum Earth" theory.
I was thinking (post O.O.B.E.) that we are "spiritual" beings, But it's like, There's this race of celestial, spiritual god-like creatures (those would be the other entities I met during the O.O.B.E.).

And they are sort of perfected, but when one of their number is, or becomes insane, or "damaged/sick", or just plain "evil"...for their own safety, or possibly as a sort of suh-LOW rehabilitation process that we wouldn't even be able to perceive "as it happens".......they kind of confine the offending member to planet Earth.

In this scenario, our Human bodies would be analogous to straight-jackets.
Because we all have that intangible part of our personalities (which started out as one of those spiritual beings), but we are all trapped or restrained, inside these bodies, much like we here on Earth would trap a violent, insane person in a straight jacket to prevent him from harming himself or others.

That would explain my O.O.B.E., the "entities" I met, and the fact that when I got too far outside my body, it all got *WHAM* shut down toot-sweet.
It was sort of like "Alert! Alert! Escapee (me) in Sector Utah!"

And it would also explain the fact that, I TRULY believe, that every single person on Earth is either insane or f***ed-up, and if you meet someone, and DON'T think they are insane or f***ed-Up? it only means that you don't know them well enough yet.

'Cause seriously, look at the world, look at it's leaders, look at the insanity and outright stupidity/brutality/banality of society.
I have a lot of really close friends and to our amazement, we took a tally and every single one of our families were "f***ed up" in some way, to varying degrees.

This could be the asylum for the sentients.*shrug*

beyond dianetics...or mormonism for that matter, it also sounds like the demi-urge strain of gnosticism. but gone and multiplied, polytheistic/many gods instead of one.

strain...heh. like it's a virus. heh.

dawkins.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

but, they're not "gods".
They're a RACE, or, a SPECIES...is all.
And that explains why we all suspect that there's an intangible element to "our sentient....consciousnesses" and why we're all effectively "trapped" here.

We're just the sick/criminal element in their natural society.
No superstitious ritual involved.
They're only "higher" beings because we denizens of Earth are......the invalids and prisoners to their "productive citizenship".

heh, but like I said, it's a half-joke to me.
Unlike the majority, I have the balls to admit that none of us can know the true nature of existence and consciousness.
We're left to guess, freak out and wonder, and that's obviously the way it's supposed to be, because that's the way it IS.

 

[maxwell's demon]

try telling THAT to Douglas Hofstadter.

 

[8Ball2/JanG5]

It was about this girl in Toronto

Ah...

 

[rodhulk]

uh, not if you worship the God who's "the same yesterday, today and forever", unchanging in his holy justice, etc.

Do I really have to bring up the point that Jesus made it clear that he didn't come to do away with the law, and that his "Father" was the God of Abraham, and that Abraham's God said that if a woman was raped and didn't scream, then both she and the rapist should be put to death? or that the Biblical God said that if she DID scream, then the rapist had to marry the victim and that they could never be divorced?

There's a HUMUNGOUS Christian precedent for punishing the victims of sexual abuse as well as the perpetrators.

It IS a very, very "Christian" thing.
The same logic you're putting forth can be used against you, "Just because Jewish Hobbit's individual church says it's wrong doesn't mean you can classify all "Christians" as if they'd agree with him."

Jesus was to fulfill the law. Bring it to it's highest meaning. The law was in effect in it's 'supervision' sense until Jesus came along. The supervision (like punishment) part of the law is gone and grace is in it's place, but the law does still generally teach what's good and bad.

 

[JewishHobbit]

uh, not if you worship the God who's "the same yesterday, today and forever", unchanging in his holy justice, etc.

Do I really have to bring up the point that Jesus made it clear that he didn't come to do away with the law, and that his "Father" was the God of Abraham, and that Abraham's God said that if a woman was raped and didn't scream, then both she and the rapist should be put to death? or that the Biblical God said that if she DID scream, then the rapist had to marry the victim and that they could never be divorced?

There's a HUMUNGOUS Christian precedent for punishing the victims of sexual abuse as well as the perpetrators.

It IS a very, very "Christian" thing.
The same logic you're putting forth can be used against you, "Just because Jewish Hobbit's individual church says it's wrong doesn't mean you can classify all "Christians" as if they'd agree with him."

Yeah, I forgot. Christianity is the hieght of all things evil, lead by an evil god, and followed by blind fanatics who can't think for themselves. I've heard this crap way too much around here. I can think of tons of great things about the bible that God's done for people, and wonderful things he's said, and firmly just laws... but you only focus on the questionable things and preach them to anyone willing to listen. I'm curious what would happen if you actually spoke unbigotedly (is that even a word?!) and showed a fair comparison to the faith. I know you know it, you simply ignore it. I respect your knowlege, but I'm growing less and less tolerant of your one sidedness and bitterness.

And some of these may be right or wrong, but I want your opinions on some things...

1) The God of today, yesterday, and tomorrow... how does the bible refur to this? In what context? Where?

2) God didn't come to change the law, but something else happened to change the way the law applies... can you explain this?

3) What does the old testiment say about what happened at that church, and what does the New Testiment say?

4) How many churches have you attended that have suffered from the above problem that you can firmly say that this is a christian thing widely practiced? I'm not meaning the crap you read online or hear on television, as that's very much one sided... I mean that you have personally attended. Now let's compare that to the amount that I've visited or attened and the ones that i know faced things similar to this and how they treated it. What would be the ratio and who would have the more accurate say... a person who knows first hand... or a person who read it online, or talked to a bitter person or two?

Sorry, I've had a bad day and am grumpy. I'll probably come back on tomorrow and regret the harshness of this post... but for now I just need sleep. Sorry if any of this is offensive, I'll be more respectible tomorrow.