From THE CHAMPIONS to THE ORDER

[Dread]

It sold reasonably well, didn't it?

According to the article Paul O'Brien wrote for THE BEAT for their Feb. 2007 sales (which was when the last issue of Oath shipped), it finished at 25k and within the Top 75. The first issue sold at 40k in October '06. Of course, it had to contend with CIVIL WAR; in Feb, the last issue of CW sold over 200k, and then there were the tie-in's. Still, 40k was a lower debut than THE ORDER started out with (issue one sold around 50k, give or take), and by issue #5, both were selling the same number. Just THE OATH was a mini and THE ORDER was an ongoing, which meant diminishing sales every month of over 10% were less forgivable.

One could claim that a 5 issue mini starring Dr. Strange with a creative team that is critically acclaimed but not as "buzztastic" as BKV & Martin (unlike, say, Millar and Romita Jr. on anything, be it WOLVERINE or KICK-ASS), those numbers were not too shabby. But Marvel often aims higher with many projects. The only reason RUNAWAYS hung around for so long was because sales HELD STEADY around 25-27k for most of BKV's Vol. 2 run (it ticked upward slightly for his final issues). THE ORDER, sadly, was clearly not holding a steady audience. Even if a few of us were actually part of one.

 

[PhotoJones]

Finishing in the top 75 ain't bad for a Doc Strange mini.

 

[Dread]

Finishing in the top 75 ain't bad for a Doc Strange mini.

No, it isn't. On the other hand, it isn't so good that Marvel is going to want to allow him to stand on his own for an ongoing again.

I'm curious as to the expectations of some of the editorial staff, though. Sometimes I feel it can be high.

 

[PhotoJones]

Strange is getting an ongoing again?

 

[Dread]

Strange is getting an ongoing again?

I doubt it. Unless they got talent that could sell itself.

I mean, as Loeb once alluded to in WIZARD, if they got Millar & Kubert or Finch on AQUAMAN, it would sell regardless of the character.

 

[PhotoJones]

Oh, I misread your post. My bad. But yeah, it's a given that creators sell more books than characters do.

 

[Anubis]

Was that supposed to be a snipe at Aquaman? That bald sonofab***h!

Sorry, but Aquaman fans are a touchy lot. Years of Superfriends fall out will do that.

 

[PhotoJones]

Aquaman sucks.

 

[Anubis]

I hope your testicles shrivel and die like, you know, when you open up a peanut, and one of them is like all black and tiny, yeah, I hope that happens to your testicles.

 

[Dread]

Oh, I misread your post. My bad. But yeah, it's a given that creators sell more books than characters do.

Not all of the time, but perhaps a majority. Some characters or should I say franchises have a "built in" audience regardless of who the creators are. Just some add to it and some don't. The X-Men are notorious for a loyal fanbase, even more so than Spider-Man.

Was that supposed to be a snipe at Aquaman? That bald sonofab***h!

Sorry, but Aquaman fans are a touchy lot. Years of Superfriends fall out will do that.

I did not intend to snipe at Aquaman. I was citing a WIZARD interview that they had between I believe Bendis, Millar, Loeb, and I think Johns, back around IC when Loeb was still with DC. They were comparing Marvel & DC and I believe Bendis claimed many DC characters fail to sell because readers cannot relate to them, essentially blaming the characters (this off a tangent over him being bitter about not writing BATMAN/DAREDEVIL, and feeling Clark Kent was "an accent Superman puts on"). Loeb countered that hot creators can sell books starring so-called unsympathetic characters regardless, and cited a potential AQUAMAN title as a for-instance, defying Bendis to claim it wouldn't be a Top 10 seller with Millar & either Kubert or Finch on art. I don't recall the exact issue and I really don't feel like digging for it later in my room. It was between 2004-2006.

I hope your testicles shrivel and die like, you know, when you open up a peanut, and one of them is like all black and tiny, yeah, I hope that happens to your testicles.

Dude, I've argued with PJ often, but DAMN, that's cold. I wouldn't wish that kind of **** on him.

 

[Anubis]

I was referring to Loeb, hence the bald crack. Unless You're bald. If so, then I'm so sorry for your loss....of hair.

 

[Dread]

I was referring to Loeb, hence the bald crack. Unless You're bald. If so, then I'm so sorry for your loss....of hair.

Ah, I missed a word there. No, I am not bald.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Rumors abound on the DC forum that Johns and Van Sciver may actually tackle Aquaman somewhere down the line. I'm personally hoping they don't, since I have a feeling Johns would just discard all of the interesting additions to the character over the last 20 years and reboot him to his Silver Age status quo. I want my water hand, damn it.

 

[PhotoJones]

God, who cares? All Aqua***** can do is swim around and talk to fish, right?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, really. He's nowhere near as good as Namor, who can swim around and be arrogant to a fault.

 

[PhotoJones]

And who can fly and has superstrength on par with the strongest of Marvel's characters.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, I'd take Aquaman over Namor if it's one of the few times Aquaman's actually being written well. The problem is that everyone has your closed-minded opinion, so his comic never sells, so DC keeps "shaking things up," which translates to ****ty directions more often than not.

 

[PhotoJones]

I'm not really being serious, anyway. I just like messing with the Aquaman fanboys. Although, DC's constant retconning and revamping of his character has made me not care one iota about him.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm a huge Aquaman fan and I'm actually on the verge of agreeing on that last point. They need to get Orin back, give him back the sword & sorcery angle but bump the pacing up, make him the duly elected leader of both Atlantis and Sub Diego, and get him back on the JLA as the mystical guy, since Atlantis has tons of mystical history and he's got a magic water hand. Morrison couldn't possibly be the only guy who could make him badass on the JLA.

 

[PhotoJones]

Sub Diego?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

A chunk of San Diego sank, and then the people who survived realized they could breathe underwater. Turns out a scientist named Geist had been introducing an agent based on Aquaman's genetics into the water supply, which changed them into water-breathers. It was part of this whole conspiracy that I can't even remember the specifics of now.

 

[PhotoJones]

Oh my God.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Sub Diego actually provided an interesting new dynamic for Aquaman. The story as a whole of what made Sub Diego Sub Diego was wonky, and that's probably because it was started by Will Pfeifer and finished by Tad Williams with like 2 or 3 other writers in-between. I was surprised Williams managed to tie things together as well as he did. But Sub Diego was the equivalent of Peter Parker teaching high school: it was different from the "classic" take on the character, but he was slowly starting to build up a really rich, interesting new supporting cast and the concept as a whole had a lot of potential. But, like Peter's teaching gig, it never truly realized its potential before the rug was pulled from under it.

 

[PhotoJones]

The name Sub Diego doesn't help to dispell the campiness associated with Aquaman at all.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

True. But that's par for the course with every comic. Dr. Strange is still cool even though he swears by the hoary hosts of Hoggoth.