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The Last Jedi General Episode VIII News/Speculation/SPOILER Thread - - - - Part 13

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You have anything against Grace enjoying the movie? :mnm:

Yeah, because she is a contrarian too often for clicks while simultaneously also slavishly following where the wind blows in terms of fan reactions. She's lost credibility over the years for that. Now that there is vocal opposition to this film she is putting out vids to conform to that point of view.
 
Yeah, because she is a contrarian too often for clicks while simultaneously also slavishly following where the wind blows in terms of fan reactions. She's lost credibility over the years for that. Now that there is vocal opposition to this film she is putting out vids to conform to that point of view.
Exactly! Its so damn annoying
 
Yeah, because she is a contrarian too often for clicks while simultaneously also slavishly following where the wind blows in terms of fan reactions. She's lost credibility over the years for that. Now that there is vocal opposition to this film she is putting out vids to conform to that point of view.

I see her videos pop up when I'm watching trailers on YouTube.

They're videos of her watching trailers on YouTube.

Why would I want to watch this person watch trailers on YouTube?
 
And just my own peeve... Her "on camera" voice should be classified as a war crime.
 
Replied to some points in bold:

Yoda burns down the tree to stop Luke from discovering that Rey took the books, but it is only revealed that Rey took the books through a blink-and you-miss-it moment. If you don't catch that, Yoda's motivations are entirely unclear (which means 99% of the audience is being withheld important information.)


Yoda's motives are very clear. He is teaching Luke a lesson about moving on from the past. Yoda knows the books are safe, but that is not the point. Luke is always looking backward, not forward. Yoda wants Luke to look forward. I don't think that could have been more clear.

Luke hands Leia the Falcon dice, but we have no indication that Leia has any attachment to them. Even if we assume she does, she drops them for some reason. On top of everything, those dice are barely viable in the OT, so most of the audience won't understand the significance.

-Leia drops the dice for Kylo. She tells Luke that her son is gone, and that is a message from Leia: She will not forget what he did to Han. It's a threat.


The Resistance acts hopelessly trapped by a rock wall that's so thin we can see the light coming through on the other side. Can't they just use some muscle, or even more obviously...blasters? I was actually really confused as to why they were so hopeless during this scene, I kept thinking I was missing something.

-When you're stuck in a cave like that, I want to see you try and use your muscles to get through that, particularly if people are possibly coming to kill you very soon. I think you'll find that is not as easy as it looks and will take more time than you're thinking.


Finn attempts to destroy the superlaser by flying his (falling apart, open cockpit) speeder directly into the beam (instead of just under it or beside it). He would have been melted long before he reached the weapon. Rose saves him by crashing her speeder into his at full speed, which not only risks BOTH of their lives...but the entire Resistance that Finn was prepared to sacrifice himself for. Her action is treated by the movie as a heroic moment.

-I need to see it again, but don't they say it would likely not have worked anyway? I thought they did, but I am not 100% sure on that. If that was not going to work, then he is killing himself really for no reason.

I replied to all your other points as well, but somehow when copying them, I lost it. I don't feel like typing all that out again, LOL! But, we can start here :cwink:
 
Some people are bothered by stretching suspension of disbelief more than others.

One friend I saw the movie with thought that Holdo's suicide run at hyper-speed produced an awesome visual, but was bothered by the extreme plot convenience of the important characters not dying. (How is this possible? She plowed through the ship at faster than light speed and apparently split the ship apart right next to where Finn and Rose were being held captive.)

Meanwhile I did not care about that, but it is usually case for me on that type of issue.
 
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Yeah, because she is a contrarian too often for clicks while simultaneously also slavishly following where the wind blows in terms of fan reactions. She's lost credibility over the years for that. Now that there is vocal opposition to this film she is putting out vids to conform to that point of view.

By saying she liked the movie? :huh: Do I miss something?
 
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Yoda burns down the tree to stop Luke from discovering that Rey took the books, but it is only revealed that Rey took the books through a blink-and you-miss-it moment. If you don't catch that, Yoda's motivations are entirely unclear (which means 99% of the audience is being withheld important information.)

Yoda wasn't hiding that the books were gone from Luke, that scene was about Yoda helping Luke let go of the past and that tree was a symbol of the Jedi. Luke said that the Jedi had failed and should end yet he had been there for 5 years without doing anything about it. Would Luke really have burned the tree down if Yoda had not done it for him?

Luke hands Leia the Falcon dice, but we have no indication that Leia has any attachment to them. Even if we assume she does, she drops them for some reason. On top of everything, those dice are barely viable in the OT, so most of the audience won't understand the significance.

Those dice hung in the cockpit of the Falcon going right back to ANH, while most viewers never noticed them the people that actually sat in the cockpit probably saw them every time they sat in it. As for while she left them its because they were not real, they were just Force Projections like Luke, thats why they faded away at the end. Luke saw them in the Falcon on Ahch-to, there is no way he could have given the real ones to Leia without teleportation. When Luke was giving them it Leia it was a symbolic reminder of Han and the past, not a physical gift.

The Resistance acts hopelessly trapped by a rock wall that's so thin we can see the light coming through on the other side. Can't they just use some muscle, or even more obviously...blasters? I was actually really confused as to why they were so hopeless during this scene, I kept thinking I was missing something.

And if Rey had not shown up and cleared the rocks first I'm sure that the Resistance would have quickly used blasters or explosives to get through them.

Finn attempts to destroy the superlaser by flying his (falling apart, open cockpit) speeder directly into the beam (instead of just under it or beside it). He would have been melted long before he reached the weapon. Rose saves him by crashing her speeder into his at full speed, which not only risks BOTH of their lives...but the entire Resistance that Finn was prepared to sacrifice himself for. Her action is treated by the movie as a heroic moment.

You agree that the plan would not work, he would have melted long before reaching the cannon, so how would it have risked the whole Resistance? Considering it would not have worked is it not heroic to stop someone from killing themselves trying to do something that has no chance of working?

Holdo not telling Poe about her plan.

There is no reason for Holdo to have told Poe beyond "things wouldn't have happened if she had". She was an Admiral, he was a junior officer, why was he entitled to be told what a superior officer was planning? In the military you follow orders, you don't expect to be told everything that is going on. The people that were needed for Holdo's plan knew about it, anyone beyond that endangered the plan. Poe was a squadron commander with no squadron, those that didn't die in the initial battle or the destruction of the hanger were without ships. That made there usefulness extremely limited. And lets not forget that some Resistance members had been trying to escape in the escape pods, if one of those was caught by the First Order they could be interrogated and revealed the plan.

It should also be pointed out that Holdo's plan would have worked if Poe had not sent Finn on the mission.


Entire Canto Bight subplot is pointless, it goes nowhere and has no payoff storywise. It only exists to tell us that "animal cruelty is bad" and that the war is only happening because a bunch of rich elites are seemingly feeding it (prequel-level politics anyone?)

Force ghosts can interact with the real world? Why doesn't Yoda just take out Kylo with a lightning bolt?

The effect for Holdo's "lightspeed fleet destruction" contradicts the end of Rogue One. (Also, why don't they just build unmanned lightspeed ships as weapons if they cause this much destruction?) I understand artistic license (and wanting to do new things), but it's barely been a year.

The ships in Rogue One that crash into Vader's ship are not at lightspeed, ships jump away before he arrives but the one that hits is not going fast.
(sorry about crap quality)

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Yet another movie where the main trio of heroes barely interacts with each other...no camaraderie whatsoever. There would be more tension if these characters had a deeper relationship.

Main (and only) lightsaber fight is against a bunch of faceless villains that they could easily take out with the Force. And we're supposed to feel tension.

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Put a few comments in bold
 
By saying she liked the movie? :huh: Do I miss something?
she says she loves it but then will back pedal or at least add onto it something negative to appease the haters, no matter how stupid their complaints are. I noticed it when lord and miller were fired, how she blamed kennedy and that she might be the problem (which she wasnt) and the other day she sort of dropped hints that kathleen might fire johnson from his trilogy, which wont happen. She does this and its super annoying. She tries to play both cards and its clear as day
 
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On this point:

-Leia drops the dice for Kylo. She tells Luke that her son is gone, and that is a message from Leia: She will not forget what he did to Han. It's a threat.

That feels like a stretch to me. Nothing about the related scenes felt threatening. Either she left them because they are not real, and Kylo happens to find them. Or she left them for him to find, because on some level she still hopes that his redemption is possible.

It could be another spot where the film hedges a bit, so that the writer/director for the 3rd movie has some wiggle room in certain areas.

But Leia taking revenge on her own son for Han's death wouldn't be a light side move.
 
On this point:

-Leia drops the dice for Kylo. She tells Luke that her son is gone, and that is a message from Leia: She will not forget what he did to Han. It's a threat.

That feels like a stretch to me. Nothing about the related scenes felt threatening. Either she left because they are not real, and Kylo happens to find them. Or she left them for him to find, because on some level she still hopes his redemption is possible.

It could be another area where the film hedges a bit, so that the writer/director for the 3rd movie has some wiggle room in certain areas.

But Leia taking revenge on her son for Han's death doesn't feel like a very light side move to me.

Luke to Kylo before he dies "See ya around kid" which is using Han's phrase against him. Kylo goes into the base, finds the dice. Yet another reminder of Han. Coincidence? I don't think so. It was deliberate. Further, Leia is leader of a rebellion against her son. So in very literal terms, she is coming for him! Who do you think she is fighting now? Him directly!
 
Luke to Kylo before he dies "See ya around kid" which is using Han's phrase against him. Kylo goes into the base, finds the dice. Yet another reminder of Han. Coincidence? I don't think so. It was deliberate. Further, Leia is leader of a rebellion against her son. So in very literal terms, she is coming for him! Who do you think she is fighting now? Him directly!
Exactly! Took the words right out of my mouth.
 
Luke to Kylo before he dies "See ya around kid" which is using Han's phrase against him. Kylo goes into the base, finds the dice. Yet another reminder of Han. Coincidence? I don't think so. It was deliberate. Further, Leia is leader of a rebellion against her son. So in very literal terms, she is coming for him! Who do you think she is fighting now? Him directly!

Maybe in the sense of defeating the First Order, but I think not in the sense of personal revenge.

That would be very uncharacteristic.

I think the message is probably more simply that Han's death will continue to haunt Kylo, with both Luke and Leia contributing to send that message. That is the tone of the dice disappearing (Han's ghost).
 
Luke to Kylo before he dies "See ya around kid" which is using Han's phrase against him. Kylo goes into the base, finds the dice. Yet another reminder of Han. Coincidence? I don't think so. It was deliberate. Further, Leia is leader of a rebellion against her son. So in very literal terms, she is coming for him! Who do you think she is fighting now? Him directly!
I didnt see that as a threat. Id have to rewatch it but did Leia even know that Snoke was defeated with Kylo taking over at that point? They are all fighting Snoke with Leia thinking Kylo might still be salvagable
 
Remember, the movie's main message is "we will win by saving what we love, not destroying what we hate."

The idea of a personal threat or revenge would go against that.
 
I didnt see that as a threat. Id have to rewatch it but did Leia even know that Snoke was defeated with Kylo taking over at that point? They are all fighting Snoke with Leia thinking Kylo might still be salvagable

Leia says to Luke in their scene "My son is gone." Her own words. Does it sound like she still is looking to save him?
 
Knowing she can't save him isn't the same as seeking revenge and saying, "I'm coming for you." She will always be his mother and he will always be her baby boy even tho she can't save him. She won't take any pleasure in defeating him and I doubt she is looking forward to it.

The dice are just intended to be a reminder of Han. To Leia they remind her of love and joy. To Kylo they are a reminder of guilt, pain, and betrayal. Luke put the knife into Kylo when he told him, "Strike me down in anger and I always will be with you...like your father." The dice drive the knife in just a bit deeper.
 
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Knowing she can't save him isn't the same as seeking revenge and saying, "I'm coming for you." She will always be his mother and he will always be her baby boy even tho she can't save him. She won't take any pleasure in defeating him and I doubt she is looking forward to it.

The dice are just intended to be a reminder of Han. To Leia they remind her of love and joy. To Kylo they are a reminder of guilt, pain, and betrayal. Luke put the knife into Kylo when he told him, "Strike me down in anger and I always will be with you...like your father." The dice drive the knife in just a bit deeper.

that quote was deeper than the whole ****** movie. You should write for episode 9.
 
Replied to some points in bold:



I replied to all your other points as well, but somehow when copying them, I lost it. I don't feel like typing all that out again, LOL! But, we can start here :cwink:

Put a few comments in bold

I have to say it’s interesting you both defend the movie against the points Grootster made, yet both had differing interpretations of the Yoda scene. One of you said he telling Luke to let go of the past, the other says Yoda is telling Luke to stop looking to the future and worrying about what might happen.

Personally I thought it was the latter, as it calls back to what Yoda said to Luke in ESB about how he “looked away to the future, never his mind on where he was..what he was doing.” I actually liked that moment.

But could the fact you both interpreted it differently not point to some bad writing?
 
Yeah, because she is a contrarian too often for clicks while simultaneously also slavishly following where the wind blows in terms of fan reactions. She's lost credibility over the years for that. Now that there is vocal opposition to this film she is putting out vids to conform to that point of view.

Ahem.

[YT]677YUM8Fja8[/YT]
 
Knowing she can't save him isn't the same as seeking revenge and saying, "I'm coming for you." She will always be his mother and he will always be her baby boy even tho she can't save him. She won't take any pleasure in defeating him and I doubt she is looking forward to it.

The dice are just intended to be a reminder of Han. To Leia they remind her of love and joy. To Kylo they are a reminder of guilt, pain, and betrayal. Luke put the knife into Kylo when he told him, "Strike me down in anger and I always will be with you...like your father." The dice drive the knife in just a bit deeper.

Kylo is going to be a miserable wreck in IX

Like not even a room full of puppies could make him feel good
 
Luke to Kylo before he dies "See ya around kid" which is using Han's phrase against him. Kylo goes into the base, finds the dice. Yet another reminder of Han. Coincidence? I don't think so. It was deliberate. Further, Leia is leader of a rebellion against her son. So in very literal terms, she is coming for him! Who do you think she is fighting now? Him directly!

Wut u on 'bout? :p

I didn't get that vibe from Leia at all.

What do you think is going to happen, that Leia is going to board a FO ship and try to gun down Kylo? Try to force choke him? Come on. They might be political enemies but she is not thirsty for revenge against her son.

Also, Leia's role in IX is kinda uncertain and probably rather minimal.
 
Autocorrect... The Dark Side of the Force it is.
 
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