Ghost Rider 2 - reboot with Dan Ketch?

[DoomRulz]

If a Ghost Rider 2 is made, would you want a total reboot of the franchise using the Dan Ketch character?

Post your comments and thoughts here...maybe if we're lucky we'll attract MSJ's attention since he comes on the forums at times. Or someone important

 

[DoomRulz]

I'd say, as I just posted in the other thread.

Keep Johnny Blaze and Nic Cage (unless he doesn't want to return, then you'd be forced to recast), but have Danny Ketch make an appearance in the movie and be part of a sidestory or plot or something.

Bad idea. As long as they keep Johnny Blaze, they'll continue to steal from Dan Ketch's comic. Sure in the current Ghost Rider comic Johnny Blaze looks like he's possessed by Noble Kale, but therein lies the problem; Noble Kale originally possessed DK. How can they use him if he isn't even possessed by the right demon, if possessed at all?

Besides, Johnny Blaze doesn't have any major villains, not like DK. Yes there's Orb, Trapster, Snake Dance and a few others, but Blackout, Deathwatch, Vengeance, Hag, Troll, etc... are infinitely more popular.

 

[crazy sock]

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeebooooooooooooooooooooooot

 

[DoomRulz]

Thus why I'd like to see a team-up between Blaze and Ketch, instead of Blaze stealing Ketch's villians, have them both team up to fight Vengeance.

Possibly have two villians in the next one, a "mini" villian, like a miniboss in a video game, then they move on to fight the major boss.

I'd like to see Blackout (miniboss) and Vengeance (major boss), though the problem with many of Ghost Rider's villians are like Superman's, they aren't very well known, like Batman's or Spider-Man's.

I would have Johnny defeat Blackout, but then introduce Danny Ketch to fight Vengeance.

Possibly, I would even change Danny Ketch's origin somewhat, and have him touch Johnny's Bike to turn into the Ghost Rider, and being possessed by the spirit that rides within' his bike. Then just have Johnny find another motorcycle, since he could just touch that one, and turn it into the Hellcycle. (Just like he did with the shotgun in the first GR movie)

Also, would have to explain why Danny Ketch is so special that he turns into Ghost Rider when he touches the bike, and others don't, but that could be solved later.

Anyways, I think they could both coincide, and I think it would just be too confusing if they restarted Ghost Rider with a brand new character and name.

Since they are restarting Hulk as well, but that is still Bruce Banner, and still the Hulk.

Having 2 Ghost Riders battle Vengeance and his Biker Demon friends while riding along a freeway with the fire and the hellcycle, would just be awesome to see I think.

It won't work for a few reasons.

Ghost Rider's villains are more popular than you might think. Vengeance especially; he is to Ghost Rider what Venom is to Spider-Man. The ones that aren't popular are the ones from the first Ghost Rider comic in the 70s.

You can't have DK just touch the bike and turn into Ghost Rider. You'd have to create a totally separate entity to possess him, and since it appears Noble Kale is already inside Johnny Blaze, there's no one for DK.

Creating two separate riders in one movie would confuse the living hell out of people. I'm sure even the die-hard GR fans won't know what to think.

A new Ghost Rider won't create confusion if a reboot is done. Think about it: no one was confused (at least seemingly) when Batman Begins was made. They understood it was a reboot and no ties to any of the other Batman movies. You erase any confusion by making it clear the new film is a reboot, and has nothing to do with the first movie(s).

 

[Riding Ghost]

Bad idea. As long as they keep Johnny Blaze, they'll continue to steal from Dan Ketch's comic.

Did it bother you that the DK comic stole a few very small details from JB. ya know little tiny things like a human being possessed by a flaming skeleton that rides a motorcycle. Or perhaps that the penance stare just so happens to have the exact same effect on victim as JB's hellfire.

But my point aside, I know just how you feel. I felt the same way when they came out with the DK series, such a blatant ripoff of blazes.

 

[Riding Ghost]

oh and it is by no means certain that JB is possessed by NK it very well may be Zarathos..as it should be

 

[DoomRulz]

oh and it is by no means certain that JB is possessed by NK it very well may be Zarathos..as it should be

I seriously doubt it. The new GR looks exactly like the Dan Ketch rider, who was Noble Kale.

 

[DoomRulz]

Did it bother you that the DK comic stole a few very small details from JB. ya know little tiny things like a human being possessed by a flaming skeleton that rides a motorcycle. Or perhaps that the penance stare just so happens to have the exact same effect on victim as JB's hellfire.

But my point aside, I know just how you feel. I felt the same way when they came out with the DK series, such a blatant ripoff of blazes.

I don't feel the DK series ripped off JB's. If you're complaining about stealing the hellfire, flaming bike, etc... you're just looking for stupid excuses b/c that's a mainstay of Ghost Rider; a biker from Hell.

Frankly, I think the Penance Stare is infinitely cooler than the hellfire. The act of locking eyes with the victim and staring into their sould like that is

In reference to the movies, I'm saying that as long as JB is used, characters will be stolen from the DK series b/c whether you want to admit or not, JB's series was extremely shallow. That's why the series was canceled so early, he was written into a corner.

 

[BIGGUN]

JB's series was extremely shallow. That's why the series was canceled so early, he was written into a corner.

and the 90s version wasnt?
which series are you talking about because the 70s series lasted from 1973 to 1983. i hardly call that a series which was canceled early.
BOTH series had flaws which contributed to its own downfall...it seems to be very difficult to keep a horror comic going month after month and still be able to keep it fresh.

 

[BIGGUN]

Welcome back BIGGUN!!!

Long time no talk, where have you been?!

Thanks man...ive still been reading the boards from time to time. after waiting with almost inhuman patience for the movie to come out (over what...20 years?) i needed a vacation from GR...just for a bit t:
work has been keeping me busy...the head technician decided to retire after 19yrs so guess who has to take over his job! wheee!!
better be a raise coming outta this
anyway its good to post again...even though i doubt this forum will be around for much longer hopefully the GR hype thread will still be here.

 

[DoomRulz]

and the 90s version wasnt?
which series are you talking about because the 70s series lasted from 1973 to 1983. i hardly call that a series which was canceled early.
BOTH series had flaws which contributed to its own downfall...it seems to be very difficult to keep a horror comic going month after month and still be able to keep it fresh.

I don't think the 90s series was. It delved into the background behind Ghost Rider, the Blood, and others, not to mention its villains were infinitely more interesting than the Johnny Blaze series. The only reason the DK series failed was b/c the writers decided to take the character into hell, which was the dumbest move ever. But up until issue...I guess #50, it was awesome.

The Johnny Blaze was a constant wash-dry-repeat cycle. After Johnny's stint with Stuntmaster, it just became a) Johnny on a lone road at the beginning of the book, b) turns into GR and disposes of some bad guys, c) runs into a villain, and d) hellfire his ass. Repeat.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You can have Mephisto get Danny to become the new GR because of JB taking the mantle.

I say reboot with Danny.

 

[DoomRulz]

You can have Mephisto get Danny to become the new GR because of JB taking the mantle.

I say reboot with Danny.

What do you mean?

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

He means an all new Movie, new origin story, new director and writer...pretty much new everything.

I wouldnt mind a reboot or even MSJ returning as Director even, so long as there is a killer script and plenty of action and story telling.

 

[kaijunexus]

LOL a reboot?! Why is that even remotely necessary?

In anything, we just need a darker sequel with more focus on action.

I'd personally like to see Cage return. MSJ could stay or go. I wouldn't really mind him taking another shot, but would also love to see what someone else would do.

 

[BURNFOREVER]

Honestly, i don´t mind at all if the next movie bring us JB or DK, but, please, NO more Cage & MSJ.
Damn. I really respect all fans´ opinions around here, of course, but, guys, did u really like that movie? Did you really think the movie brings justice to GR´s potential as a character ( the coolest of comics )?
Carpenters? Jellybeans? Monkeys? ******ed Elvis imitation?
Come on, guys.
MSJ has good intentions but absolutely no talent.
He said that wants to make films like "Grumpier old men".
Good. Do it. Be happy. But stay away from GR2.
You had your chance. And blew it.
I´m kind of tired to say that. It´s really sad. But it´s my opinion, anyway.
GR4EVR!!!

 

[crazy sock]

Damn. I really respect all fans´ opinions around here, of course, but, guys, did u really like that movie? Did you really think the movie brings justice to GR´s potential as a character ( the coolest of comics )?

GR4EVR!!!

i sure as hell did not like that movie. not only do i think that movie wasnt done well in anyway (except maybe the special effects), i also didnt enjoy it at all. from the start of the movie i began to cringe and couldnt keep still in my seat. ive said it hundred of times before, i like and enjoy plenty of movies that are horribly made in whatever way. but i can still admit to myself and others that the movie wasnt made well. whatever.

id rather this movie never have been made. if it wasnt, then GR would have hope of being made by someone more qualified. also, GR in comics wouldnt have been eff'd up either. without the movie being made they would have left GR alone in comics. id rather there be no series than this mess they have out there now. of course this is all just My opinion.

 

[Riding Ghost]

I don't feel the DK series ripped off JB's. If you're complaining about stealing the hellfire, flaming bike, etc... you're just looking for stupid excuses b/c that's a mainstay of Ghost Rider; a biker from Hell.

Your talking about cloth and villians, I'm talking about the fundamentals of the character that were ripped off from Blaze....and I'm looking for stupid excuses Admit it, you were raised on the DK version and no amount of logic or reason will diswade you from thinking DK is better. No matter what is said you will think that a kid stumbling across a bike and touching it is so much deeper and much more interesting than the deal with the devil angle, despite the fact that that is crazy. I could go on, but I'm not

Frankly, I think the Penance Stare is infinitely cooler than the hellfire. The act of locking eyes with the victim and staring into their sould like that is

Personally, I thought the fire was a more visual indication of what was happening to the soul and thought the fire was much cooler than a skull looking at you, but thats no big deal. I can understand if someone likes the PS better, i just don't, thats all.

 

[Riding Ghost]

Oh, good to see you again BG. I was beginning to think you and FH were abandoning us

 

[DoomRulz]

Your talking about cloth and villians, I'm talking about the fundamentals of the character that were ripped off from Blaze....and I'm looking for stupid excuses Admit it, you were raised on the DK version and no amount of logic or reason will diswade you from thinking DK is better. No matter what is said you will think that a kid stumbling across a bike and touching it is so much deeper and much more interesting than the deal with the devil angle, despite the fact that that is crazy. I could go on, but I'm not

I was raised on Dan Ketch, you're absolutely right. But I have read all the Johnny Blaze comics (originals). You want to give me an argument? Go right ahead. I'll listen

I maintain the DK series is deeper b/c it delved into the origins behind Ghost Rider, Zarathos, and whole bunch of others. Sure in the JB series there was a comic that went into the background of Zarathos, but that was only one issue, #77. As well, the villains in the DK series were more entertaining to read about. Blackout and Vengeance IMO are much more badass than JB's big villains, The Orb and...who would be number two?

 

[herestoloveha]

*if*
They should make a Ghost Rider 2. It should be called something like Ghost Rider: (something witty). This way those dumbasses who payed to see the first one thinking they'd get a good NICK CAGE FLICK will pay again to come see an actual good movie.
THey should take a better approach with the Character. Obviously the Johnny Blaze and Roxanne story didn't unfold very well on screen. The formula was so done by daredevil and Hulk. that nobody really cared. Also where the hell was the action?
I say they reamp the series with a new actor and new story and disregard the fact that Nick Cage was ever johnny blaze. They should set it in a run down NYC. And have Johnny blaze Younger than He was in this movie have him something like Keanu Reeves in Constantine. This way the story could be *he's been ghost rider for years and this is what his life has become*. He's just some "WASHED UP" looking dude but in the face of evil (moon) whatever he becomes the rider. So i'm thinking some Sin City/ Crow type landscapes. I also think there should be more emphasis on him BRAWLING. Jumping, kicking, punching, and beating the sh*** out of people with this chain. I think if they went for a much darker movie. They could actually succeed where THE PUNISHER failed. and Ghost Rider (1) for that matter.

I think this movie idea would be bad ass LETS GET IT MADE PEOPLE.

 

[crazy sock]

*if*
They should make a Ghost Rider 2. It should be called something like Ghost Rider: (something witty). This way those dumbasses who payed to see the first one thinking they'd get a good NICK CAGE FLICK will pay again to come see an actual good movie.
THey should take a better approach with the Character. Obviously the Johnny Blaze and Roxanne story didn't unfold very well on screen. The formula was so done by daredevil and Hulk. that nobody really cared. Also where the hell was the action?
I say they reamp the series with a new actor and new story and disregard the fact that Nick Cage was ever johnny blaze. They should set it in a run down NYC. And have Johnny blaze Younger than He was in this movie have him something like Keanu Reeves in Constantine. This way the story could be *he's been ghost rider for years and this is what his life has become*. He's just some "WASHED UP" looking dude but in the face of evil (moon) whatever he becomes the rider. So i'm thinking some Sin City/ Crow type landscapes. I also think there should be more emphasis on him BRAWLING. Jumping, kicking, punching, and beating the sh*** out of people with this chain. I think if they went for a much darker movie. They could actually succeed where THE PUNISHER failed. and Ghost Rider (1) for that matter.

I think this movie idea would be bad ass LETS GET IT MADE PEOPLE.

well if they made the movie based on the 90s series. you and the rest of us would have gotten all of what you said and more. if they made a series of GR movies based soley on the 90s series, itd be crazy awesome. like how they had the whole carter slade was a GR, well theyd have JB be like that when he goes after GR thinking its Zarathos n yada yada yada.

 

[Spade]

Reboot the whole franchise with Danny Ketch with a film following Mackie's infamous run. Either that, or cross your toes and hope to God the sequel is a Blade 2 kind of good in terms of quality.

 

[DoomRulz]

I say they reamp the series with a new actor and new story and disregard the fact that Nick Cage was ever johnny blaze. They should set it in a run down NYC. And have Johnny blaze Younger than He was in this movie have him something like Keanu Reeves in Constantine. This way the story could be *he's been ghost rider for years and this is what his life has become*. He's just some "WASHED UP" looking dude but in the face of evil (moon) whatever he becomes the rider. So i'm thinking some Sin City/ Crow type landscapes. I also think there should be more emphasis on him BRAWLING. Jumping, kicking, punching, and beating the sh*** out of people with this chain. I think if they went for a much darker movie. They could actually succeed where THE PUNISHER failed. and Ghost Rider (1) for that matter.

I think this movie idea would be bad ass LETS GET IT MADE PEOPLE.

The idea of 'washed up JB and turns into GR at night' IMO, is exactly why a Johnny Blaze movie wouldn't work, and really why it didn't work all that well in the first movie. If you read Ghost Rider Vol. 1, that's exactly what the comic was like towards the end, meaning after issue #40ish thereabouts.

 

[HAMACKIE]

I'm probably going to regret for getting involved in this discussion, but I need to reply to the individual who keeps saying thatthe Dan Ketch version of Ghost Rider was "ripped off" from the Johynny Blaze version. Let me explain how this works...I,as a writer, worked for Marvel. Marvel wanted a new Ghost Rider series, but THEY did not want Blaze involved. I thought aht was a mistake, and was a HUGE fan of the original series. There was no "ripping off" you cannot "rip off" what is given to you. Is the Dan Ketch series derivative of the original? I sure as hell hope so... they are two series called Ghost Rider... we wanted to have enough familiar stuff to attract old readers, and new stuff to make it fresh. I picked up on lots of stuff that Mark DeMatteis left hanging in the first series. Mark used to joke with me that I owed him part of my royalties. SO, PLEASE refrain from saying "ripped off". It's incorrect, and I would greatly appreciate it if that was the end of it.

Best,

Howard Mackie