I could say the same for critics. They are getting paid to write reviews. I suspect their motives, especially when it comes to movies that have a different agenda than the critics’. I put more stock into the opinions of posters on message boards and Reddit. Especially those with similar interests and movie tastes
Yes, the grand conspiracy theory that critics are somehow motivated by something other then their personal taste really shows a level headed approach to this discussion.
I’d say Serizawa is pretty damned vital, both for plot reasons and for more subtler character reasons.
Sure, though I’m of the mind that even if the human story had been better crafted we wouldn’t see that much of a spike from the general audience going into this film. You can argue the merits of the human involvement, but I think the real discussion is would it have ultimately changed much regarding the GA’s interest in this film and it’s profitability?
I think after 2014 people expect to be overall disappointed in Godzilla, or should I say this Godzilla. It is unfair to this film, but it has a lot of baggage. So when they saw the rather awesome trailers for this one, they weren't exactly convinced, because the first one had awesome trailers as well. Then you see the reviews and it sounds a bit like another "bait and switch".
I think it is less about the humans themselves being better, and more to do with the fact that the human's story is the story of these movies. Or at least the bulk of it. Sure we are all here to see Godzilla fight some big ugly fools, but I do think a compelling story has to come with the humans also here. Especially as you are going to spend the vast majority of your time with them. And if that isn't compelling, that is going to make the film less watchable for general audiences.
Hopefully will be able to watch the movie this week. Based on the reviews I've read, my worst fears have come true - good monster action ultimately let down by poorly written characters & story.
Yes, the grand conspiracy theory that critics are somehow motivated by something other then their personal taste really shows a level headed approach to this discussion.
I feel like you are selling Godzilla well short, but let's say that is true. Did you expect people to like the movies more just with a bigger budget then?
So what you are saying here is all these critics were bought off the not like this movie? Who did this and why? Because while I understand buttering up critics, the idea that someone somewhere paid them to hate movies is very, very odd.
I think after 2014 people expect to be overall disappointed in Godzilla, or should I say this Godzilla. It is unfair to this film, but it has a lot of baggage. So when they saw the rather awesome trailers for this one, they weren't exactly convinced, because the first one had awesome trailers as well. Then you see the reviews and it sounds a bit like another "bait and switch".
I think it is less about the humans themselves being better, and more to do with the fact that the human's story is the story of these movies. Or at least the bulk of it. Sure we are all here to see Godzilla fight some big ugly fools, but I do think a compelling story has to come with the humans also here. Especially as you are going to spend the vast majority of your time with them. And if that isn't compelling, that is going to make the film less watchable for general audiences.
I think there’s a way to do it without leaning on the human storyline as the main crux, but they haven’t done it yet in a Western iteration. Had this movie been 15 minutes shorter, removed Millie Bobbie Brown and Vera Farmiga and just focused on Kyle Chandler and (especially) Ken Watanabe then I think it would have more or less been the exact balance required for the more traditional “superhero” take on Godzilla.
I could say the same for critics. They are getting paid to write reviews. I suspect their motives, especially when it comes to movies that have a different agenda than the critics’. I put more stock into the opinions of posters on message boards and Reddit. Especially those with similar interests and movie tastes
Critics are people. And thus, have differing opinions. Best bet is to ignore the aggregate, and find a few that seem to line up with your views. Just don't be jealous that they get paid for their opinion.
This also goes back to what I was saying earlier. "It had terribly written human characters and a nonsense plot, but at least the action was good!" is something that plays far more to existing fans who have experienced this in the Japanese films and learned to ignore it. Unless they're also a big kaiju fan, a critic is less likely to write off things like bad writing just because it had a cool monster fight at the end.
This is a thing for a fair number of adaptations, come to think of it. If there's something that gets pointed out as being bad or poorly thought out or not explained well, there's gonna be a contingent of people who are familiar with the source material who say it's fine because these sorts of stories are always supposed to be like that. And that's fine to feel that way, but not everybody is going to feel the same way.
I personally enjoyed the movie, but I totally get how the flaws I was able to mostly ignore or turn my brain off for might stand out way more to someone else.
I feel that this film lacked something that most of the good Godzilla films have, a clear message.
Often Godzilla films use the monsters as a very obvious and heavy handed metaphor, for war, nuclear power, corporate greed, government incompetence etc. Usually it gets pretty silly and at times is comical, but it's clear and the audience comes away knowing what the film was really about. Chances are the message gets hammered home at the end as the characters watch Godzilla disappear into the sea.
KOTM didn't really have a message, they threw in some vague ecological buzz words and figured that would be enough.
Serizawa was the best human character in the movie for me (though I wish they would have elaborated more on the character's backstory; his small scene with Kyle Chandler in the submarine was nice and we needed more of that), though that's mostly due to Watanabe's acting and especially his last scene in the movie.
I feel that this film lacked something that most of the good Godzilla films have, a clear message.
Often Godzilla films use the monsters as a very obvious and heavy handed metaphor, for war, nuclear power, corporate greed, government incompetence etc. Usually it gets pretty silly and at times is comical, but it's clear and the audience comes away knowing what the film was really about. Chances are the message gets hammered home at the end as the characters watch Godzilla disappear into the sea.
KOTM didn't really have a message, they threw in some vague ecological buzz words and figured that would be enough.
I don't think that's true at all, you're just looking in the wrong place for the message. It's not the monsters who are the metaphor, it's the humans. The message is 'we are the monsters who are destroying the planet' and 'we have to learn to stop trying to control everything for our own ends before its too late to save the planet and ourselves from the inevitable fallout'. Although, thinking about it in those terms, Ghidorah himself is still a metaphor, too, for climate change and ecological destruction in general. It's probably not a coincidence that
he created a literal storm everywhere he went. Or that he is presented as literally 'unnatural'. Or that humans deliberately awakened him thinking he would serve their own ends and he then turned on them to destroy them and make their problems a million times worse.
If it was lacking in the metaphor department, it was in driving home the message at the end (the characters watching Godzilla disappear into the sea moment, as you put it), but not because the message wasn't there. The credits sequence is full of stuff talking about
how the Titans are restoring the planet and fixing all this stuff we've broken now that we've learned to trust them and coexist with them.
Unfortunately that stuff is all newspaper articles behind the credits, so not very obvious and likely to be missed entirely by the many people who don't watch the credits.
Ah yes the age old "Critics are paid off" narrative
Anywho, I didn't mind the humans in this. But I do agree they can be cut down. I said this before people need to realize that giant monsters fighting is a set piece or a plot point. Not really a plot or a story. Focusing so much on the movies on just the monsters isn't going to yield a good movie.
And I know someone might say "I don't go to these for the plot" which is stupid, but I get it. But then they need to get that these movies are going to have a ceiling for how successful they're going to be.
I think they need to cut down the amount of humans have the plots revolve more around the monsters. I know it isn't a kaiju movie but look at Jaws. The plot was simply, there's a monster out there we need to kill it before it hurts more people. Or Alien, we need to get off this ship before this monster kills us. They didn't overdo it with the human characters and they had a very focused and simple plot.
That's why I partially think that Skull Island worked. It was simple. There were a good amount of human characters, but for the most part the group was pretty focused. But when you look at the Godzilla movies you have: The military, a civilian group, Ken Wantanabe and them. And they're all so separate.
I also think it was a mistake to have the first movie be Godzilla vs other Kaiju. Kinda a hot take, but I think they should've saved that plot
I don't think that's true at all, you're just looking in the wrong place for the message. It's not the monsters who are the metaphor, it's the humans. The message is 'we are the monsters who are destroying the planet' and 'we have to learn to stop trying to control everything for our own ends before its too late to save the planet and ourselves from the inevitable fallout'. Although, thinking about it in those terms, Ghidorah himself is still a metaphor, too, for climate change and ecological destruction in general. It's probably not a coincidence that
he created a literal storm everywhere he went. Or that he is presented as literally 'unnatural'. Or that humans deliberately awakened him thinking he would serve their own ends and he then turned on them to destroy them and make their problems a million times worse.
If it was lacking in the metaphor department, it was in driving home the message at the end (the characters watching Godzilla disappear into the sea moment, as you put it), but not because the message wasn't there. The credits sequence is full of stuff talking about
how the Titans are restoring the planet and fixing all this stuff we've broken now that we've learned to trust them and coexist with them.
Unfortunately that stuff is all newspaper articles behind the credits, so not very obvious and likely to be missed entirely by the many people who don't watch the credits.
So the message of the film is that Emma was right, we shouldn't do anything about natural disasters because it'll all balance out in the end? That the destruction caused by Rodan in Mexico, and the MUTOs in 2014 was good?
We shouldn't mourn for those who die in earthquakes, shouldn't build flood defences, just sit back and let horrible things happen because it's "natural"?
If that's what they we going for, they muddied the waters with Ghidorah.
If they wanted to show that freeing the monsters and letting nature take it's course was a good thing, Ghidorah should have been as much of a good guy as Godzilla.
If they want to show the problem is humanity, they should have made Ghidorah under human control and that's why he was causing things to go wrong. As it stands it's a bit confused.
Ah yes the age old "Critics are paid off" narrative
Anywho, I didn't mind the humans in this. But I do agree they can be cut down. I said this before people need to realize that giant monsters fighting is a set piece or a plot point. Not really a plot or a story. Focusing so much on the movies on just the monsters isn't going to yield a good movie.
And I know someone might say "I don't go to these for the plot" which is stupid, but I get it. But then they need to get that these movies are going to have a ceiling for how successful they're going to be.
I think they need to cut down the amount of humans have the plots revolve more around the monsters. I know it isn't a kaiju movie but look at Jaws. The plot was simply, there's a monster out there we need to kill it before it hurts more people. Or Alien, we need to get off this ship before this monster kills us. They didn't overdo it with the human characters and they had a very focused and simple plot.
That's why I partially think that Skull Island worked. It was simple. There were a good amount of human characters, but for the most part the group was pretty focused. But when you look at the Godzilla movies you have: The military, a civilian group, Ken Wantanabe and them. And they're all so separate.
I also think it was a mistake to have the first movie be Godzilla vs other Kaiju. Kinda a hot take, but I think they should've saved that plot
I believe part of the deal with Toho was that it had to feature another monster for Godzilla to fight. They didn’t remotely want another Roland Emmerich abomination.
So the message of the film is that Emma was right, we shouldn't do anything about natural disasters because it'll all balance out in the end? That the destruction caused by Rodan in Mexico, and the MUTOs in 2014 was good?
We shouldn't mourn for those who die in earthquakes, shouldn't build flood defences, just sit back and let horrible things happen because it's "natural"?
If that's what they we going for, they muddied the waters with Ghidorah.
If they wanted to show that freeing the monsters and letting nature take it's course was a good thing, Ghidorah should have been as much of a good guy as Godzilla.
If they want to show the problem is humanity, they should have made Ghidorah under human control and that's why he was causing things to go wrong. As it stands it's a bit confused.
Ghidorah was against the natural order because he was not of this Earth. He was molding our world to resemble his, which is not natural course correction. Godzilla and the other Titans were of this Earth and were natural course correctors for our world. That's the difference. This is why Ghidorah was bad. The problem with humanity, as depicted in the movie, is we try to control things beyond our control/comprehension. In this case, the titans. When we attempted to, we freed an alien bent on destroying our Earth as we knew it. So I think the themes work just fine.
Yep two ****ty movies is enough for me. Skull Island was better in the action department but it still has the same human problems. Heck Toho should just take the license AWAY from the WB at this point. The WB IS the new Sony with them learning the WRONG things from the 2014 movie here. Either Toho takes the license away or the WB gives up & gives the license back willingly. Im good with either & the WB repeated the same mistake with BVS / JL but at the same time they are not gonna learn the right things so crash & burn Monsterverse for as long as the WB owns the rights. Over my dead body will I ever see another Monsterverse movie made by The WB as The WB is the Sony 2.0
Yep two ****ty movies is enough for me. Skull Island was better in the action department but it still has the same human problems. Heck Toho should just take the license AWAY from the WB at this point. The WB IS the new Sony with them learning the WRONG things from the 2014 movie here. Either Toho takes the license away or the WB gives up & gives the license back willingly. Im good with either & the WB repeated the same mistake with BVS / J: but at the same time they are not gonna learn the right things so crash & burn Monsterverse for as long as the WB owns the rights
That's not how contracts work, dude. WB has done nothing to violate their contract with Toho, therefore there is no grounds for termination. We need to get beyond fanboy wishful thinking just because of issues you may have with the final product.
But regardless, all reports indicate the deal with Legendary/WB and Toho ends after Godzilla vs Kong, unless they decide to renew the deal. I would assume KotM's BO makes it less likely that any type of extension talks will gain momentum. So this iteration of Godzilla likely only has 1 more film anyway.
That's not how contracts work, dude. WB has done nothing to violate their contract with Toho, therefore there is no grounds for termination. We need to get beyond fanboy wishful thinking just because of issues you may have with the final product.
But regardless, all reports indicate the deal with Legendary/WB and Toho ends after Godzilla vs Kong, unless they decide to renew the deal. I would assume KotM's BO makes it less likely that any type of extension talks will gain momentum. So this iteration of Godzilla likely only has 1 more film anyway.
Second If Toho wants Godzilla & the Monster to have NO audience in the United States sure keep it with The WB as The WB sure as hell does NOT know what they are doing
Second If Toho wants Godzilla & the Monster to have NO audience in the United States sure keep it with The WB as The WB sure as hell does NOT know what they are doing
Once again, per a contract they signed, this contract lasts until Godzilla vs Kong. Toho has no say in that because they signed a contract. Also, the quality of the WB/Legendary films is relative. I get you hate them, and that is fine. I disagree and like the movies. We're free to have that disagreement. At the end of the day, I don't think Toho will re-up this deal anyway. They've made it clear they want something like the MCU for their movie monsters, and this deal from what I read doesn't allow them to release a Japanese Godzilla film the same year Legendary/WB release one (once again, Toho agreed to this). Unless Godzilla vs Kong makes all the money, I see that being the last one in this series regardless. Not unless Toho gets more freedom to release their own movies whenever they want to (something I don't think WB/Legendary would agree to). Me personally, I like these movies and would be happy to see more of them. But I've seen Godzilla rebooted several times already, so it is not like seeing it happen again is going to irk me. Par for the course.
Well they need a good first movie & wory about the rest after that. Godzilla can certainly support said Universe but first it needs likeable human characters & we saw with The DCEU how the WB handles Cinematic Universes. They are gonna kill two of them in Godzilla VS King Kong. The WB is also gonna screw up Mortal Kombat so bad its gonna be glorious
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
