Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - Part 1

[Sithborg]

Considering who made it, not surprising.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Considering who made it, not surprising.

Oh yeah, that is why I have had to wait so long for the 100th attempt at a finale.

 

[Stark Bauer]

I feel like you are selling Godzilla well short, but let's say that is true. Did you expect people to like the movies more just with a bigger budget then?

I admit, Kaiju movies are a niche audience but with mainstream potential. Power Rangers TV show and Pacific Rim (at least internationally) proved this. It may be something that doesn’t penetrate the western audience as much as Anime (Naruto/Dragonball etc) seem to. Bigger budgets aren’t the answer. A compelling story with characters we can care about is. But I automatically care for the Kaiju more than the humans. I’m sure many here feel the same way. I LOLd when Rodan

Spoiler

ate that guy

. But Serizawa was the most semi likeable character. Shame that they didn’t have Bryan Cranston as the “Agent Coulson” Of The Monster verse as he seemed very likeable and relatable. More so than any human protagonist of any Godzilla film.

 

[The Chris]

https://io9.gizmodo.com/why-godzilla-means-the-world-to-king-of-monsters-direct-1835117620

Hats off to him, from the movie you could really see that he was a fan. Im happy he stayed true to the character and the history of the character. Like I said , hats off to him! I loved the film.

I think that is part of the reason why It connected with me so much. I could tell that a big fan made it.

 

[Stark Bauer]

So what you are saying here is all these critics were bought off the not like this movie? Who did this and why? Because while I understand buttering up critics, the idea that someone somewhere paid them to hate movies is very, very odd.

I’m not saying they are all paid off. I’m saying that there is a possibility that a critic can be given exclusives in exchange for them writing a positive review. Or given favours that are dependent on them giving them positive press/interviews etc. I know Marvel and Disney have been accused of censoring negative criticism- I’m not sure of the validity of these claims. But I’m not going to believe that all critics are paid at the same time not ruling out that it is an impossibility for that reality to occur

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah, that was such a huge waste.

Spoiler

A part of me hopes that the fallout will be addressed in GvK, but I'm not getting my hopes up. The way they introduced it with no foreshadowing or fanfare disappointed me greatly.

That part is the only one that really upset me with the movie.

Spoiler

Still love the movie, but reducing the Oxygen Destroyer to a cameo, and dismissing its importance in Godzilla lore and as a metaphor, upset me. Godzilla has been many things through the years, but the Oxygen Destroyer is a key to the lasting power of the original Gojira

 

[Stark Bauer]

Critics aren't a group. They don't even work with each other. They don't have an agenda.

They aren’t a physical group per se. But there is a clear bias and “groupthink” against specific types of movies. Specifically those that are conservative or reflect conservative values. The movie Unplanned for instance. I remember in the 90s any action movie got overwhelmingly negative reviews. Nowadays, they are given a fair shake. They seemed to be dismissed for not being “indie” enough. That’s just my assessment of things

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I’m not saying they are all paid off. I’m saying that there is a possibility that a critic can be given exclusives in exchange for them writing a positive review. Or given favours that are dependent on them giving them positive press/interviews etc. I know Marvel and Disney have been accused of censoring negative criticism- I’m not sure of the validity of these claims. But I’m not going to believe that all critics are paid at the same time not ruling out that it is an impossibility for that reality to occur

You are not sure how valid those claims are but you want to put them in your argument anyways... okay.

Let's say everything you wrote here is true. I mean it doesn't make a lot of sense considering plenty of Disney films have had middling to straight up poor reviews over the last decade and even this year. But say it is true. How does that explain the negative response here?

 

[Stark Bauer]

Ah yes the age old "Critics are paid off" narrative

Anywho, I didn't mind the humans in this. But I do agree they can be cut down. I said this before people need to realize that giant monsters fighting is a set piece or a plot point. Not really a plot or a story. Focusing so much on the movies on just the monsters isn't going to yield a good movie.
And I know someone might say "I don't go to these for the plot" which is stupid, but I get it. But then they need to get that these movies are going to have a ceiling for how successful they're going to be.

I think they need to cut down the amount of humans have the plots revolve more around the monsters. I know it isn't a kaiju movie but look at Jaws. The plot was simply, there's a monster out there we need to kill it before it hurts more people. Or Alien, we need to get off this ship before this monster kills us. They didn't overdo it with the human characters and they had a very focused and simple plot.
That's why I partially think that Skull Island worked. It was simple. There were a good amount of human characters, but for the most part the group was pretty focused. But when you look at the Godzilla movies you have: The military, a civilian group, Ken Wantanabe and them. And they're all so separate.

I also think it was a mistake to have the first movie be Godzilla vs other Kaiju. Kinda a hot take, but I think they should've saved that plot

I just think most reviewers are not like us - they just DONT GET Kaiju movies. Just like most of them didn’t grow up with Anime or whatever millennials are into - it’s a generational gap problem - not that Kaiju movies didn’t exist - it’s the Japanese tastes that have seeped into western pop culture to be point that they are becoming indistinguishable from each other in many ways - except the Lolita thing

 

[Snow Queen]

They aren’t a physical group per se. But there is a clear bias and “groupthink” against specific types of movies. Specifically those that are conservative or reflect conservative values. The movie Unplanned for instance. I remember in the 90s any action movie got overwhelmingly negative reviews. Nowadays, they are given a fair shake. They seemed to be dismissed for not being “indie” enough. That’s just my assessment of things

I'm sorry, did you just decide to cite Unplanned? Like, seriously? Actually? That's what you want to go with? Are you positive?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm sorry, did you just decide to cite Unplanned? Like, seriously? Actually? That's what you want to go with? Are you positive?

It makes sense and matches exactly why they don't like Godzilla. Godzilla is a bastion of Christian conservative values. Also nothing about any of his movies would suggest mankind is responsible for the issues with our environment.

 

[Stark Bauer]

https://io9.gizmodo.com/why-godzilla-means-the-world-to-king-of-monsters-direct-1835117620

Hats off to him, from the movie you could really see that he was a fan. Im happy he stayed true to the character and the history of the character. Like I said , hats off to him! I loved the film.

Great comment on the article from a poster:

Yeah, I saw this movie today, and it’s ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that Godzilla: King of the Monsters was made by people who have watched a metric ****ton of Godzilla movies.

The film hits all of the central beats of a Heisei era Godzilla movie so perfectly.

IF YOU’VE NEVER SEEN A HEISEI ERA GODZILLA MOVIE, BEWARE THE MILD SPOILERS AHEAD!!

If you have seen a Heisei era Godzilla movie, the rest of this post will probably not spoil anything for you.

• You have the Earth Defence Force-style good-guy science organization with their flying mobile operations base and experimental kaiju tech.
• You have the evil shady badguy organization with just the most impossible agenda.
• Godzilla is a force of nature. And while he’s fundamentally a good boy, he also has this other side which is a potential engine of chaos and out-of-control destruction.
• Ghidorah is every bit as menacing as he’s ever been; the kind of thing that makes Godzilla look entirely virtuous by comparison, even when the Big G is having a bad day.
• Mothra was incorruptibly benevolent, and just generally the embodiment of all that is good and right and pure in the world.
• And Rodan was the irritating ****hawk that he’s always been... except this time he also somehow managed to be COOL while doing the irritating ****hawk thing.

Godzilla: King of the Monsters is a Heisei era Godzilla movie on steroids.

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Reply

 

[Stark Bauer]

I'm sorry, did you just decide to cite Unplanned? Like, seriously? Actually? That's what you want to go with? Are you positive?

Yes. Abortion is probably the most divisive issue in America since slavery. Have you seen the movie? The point is, if you are someone who shares conservative values Vs liberal values, there is bound to be a bias either way. A conservative will most likely not give positive reviews to a movie that promotes atheism/nihilism for example

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I just think most reviewers are not like us - they just DONT GET Kaiju movies. Just like most of them didn’t grow up with Anime or whatever millennials are into - it’s a generational gap problem - not that Kaiju movies didn’t exist - it’s the Japanese tastes that have seeped into western pop culture to be point that they are becoming indistinguishable from each other in many ways - except the Lolita thing

It is not a question of getting it. There is nothing "to get". While it is a good time to crap on critics, plenty of them are just really geeky film lovers who have seen a lot of films, from a lot of different genres, and enjoy plenty of them. Critics, like each of us, like what they like.

 

[Snow Queen]

Yes. Abortion is probably the most divisive issue in America since slavery.

Apparently poor writing, directing and acting are not though.

 

[Stark Bauer]

It is not a question of getting it. There is nothing "to get". While it is a good time to crap on critics, plenty of them are just really geeky film lovers who have seen a lot of films, from a lot of different genres, and enjoy plenty of them. Critics, like each of us, like what they like.

Yes and no. How do you explain the disparity between critics tomatometer vs audiences? Sometimes it feels like the critics are either out of touch with the GA or that they are trying to sway popular opinion one way - the whole SJW/feminist agenda for example

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yes. Abortion is probably the most divisive issue in America since slavery. Have you seen the movie? The point is, if you are someone who shares conservative values Vs liberal values, there is bound to be a bias either way. A conservative will most likely not give positive reviews to a movie that promotes atheism/nihilism for example

I watched the Double Toasted review of Unplanned. Does that count?

 

[Sithborg]

Or, just hear me out now, or people are allowed to like and enjoy bad movies. Crazy, I know.

 

[Lighthouse]

Pacific Rim, Godzilla and Kong all got fresh ratings.

 

[Roose Bolton]

That part is the only one that really upset me with the movie.

Spoiler

Still love the movie, but reducing the Oxygen Destroyer to a cameo, and dismissing its importance in Godzilla lore and as a metaphor, upset me. Godzilla has been many things through the years, but the Oxygen Destroyer is a key to the lasting power of the original Gojira

I kind of think it’s an impossible concept to properly introduce in an iteration of Godzilla that isn’t a sequel to the original where the character was villainous. Which is why I really think it was only added as a means to set up Destroyah for GvK.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yes and no. How do you explain the disparity between critics tomatometer vs audiences? Sometimes it feels like the critics are either out of touch with the GA or that they are trying to sway popular opinion one way - the whole SJW/feminist agenda for example

That audience scores do not reflect the larger public's response to most things. Audience scores beyond being able to be manipulated, usually reflects the response of fans. Do you know a lot of people who seek out multi-step review systems to complain? No.

I have seen plenty of fans all over the place for this film, but for the most part, the majority have found something to like about it. A lot of them just really like it period. And that is great. But does that reflect general audiences? I don't know. I guess we will have to see what legs this movie has, though if I am honest the issue is getting people in the theater that aren't simply fans in the first place.

As to that last sentence, well...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Or, just hear me out now, or people are allowed to like and enjoy bad movies. Crazy, I know.

* Hides Batman Forever, Mortal Kombat Annihilation, Street Fighter and Batman and Robin blu rays*

 

[Blade Hoarder]

This thread took a brilliant turn. Apparently wanting good, empathetic characters is a liberal value.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This thread took a brilliant turn. Apparently wanting good, empathetic characters is a liberal value.

 

[Vapor]

Saw it last night..

Visually great in parts but extremely silly, nearing on nonsensical in parts with b-movie characters spouting cliche dialogue and exposition (and some terrible line delivery), a bad guy who's there just to get the ball rolling on what little plot there is and Kong related elements/set up that just felt tacked on..

Yet... I enjoyed it.

It feels like an improvement on the first one in parts (more monster action) and whilst I enjoyed the monster action here, oddly, I thought it was handled better in the first movie. Maybe it's too much up close/shaky cam. With the first film too, you really got a sense of scale which was lost with this film I thought.

I don't know a lot about the Godzilla history/lore and maybe I missed some stuff but a little more explanation/expansion on the implied monster relationships would have being appreciated, for instance..

Spoiler

Are there only 2 "good" monsters?
Why were the other 15 or so able to be put under the control of Ghiddorah (and not Godzilla and Mothra)?
Did Mothra sacrifice herself for Godzilla near the end? I think this could have being made a little clearer somehow..
Mothra was a highlight of the film for me (what little there was) but I thought they could have really done something with their "relationship" and tag team battle but it felt under developed and lacklustre.

All in all, I can fully see why it might divide opinion and I can understand and even agree with the criticism and negative reviews.... but I still enjoyed the heck out of it!