Goyer says All DC films at Warner Bros. are on Hold

[Heretic]

The solo movies can more easily acheive their greatest potential when unencumbered by studio directives to maintain some ambiguous continuity with the other solo movies. That's not to say they won't work if they are required to do so. It's just that the chances for success are improved if the filmakers are allowed to make creative decisions that are in the best interests of that movie, and that movie alone. Would BB and TDK be any better if WB had required Nolan to instead create a universe for those movies that would be more accomidating to alien superheroes?

Im sorry,but that makes no sense...

Lets take Hulk for example...in his movie he is seen as some sort of Bigfoot type creature...a cryptid...we in the real world hear about cryptids all the time. Presumably in the world of The Dark Knight they hear of cryptids as well...there is NOTHING in Nolans batman films that state that no one has ever claimed to see a chupacabra, bigfoot, etc....Im not saying they exist in Batmans world...but why wouldnt the CLAIMS exist?? They exist in our world (the claims, not necessarily the creatures)!!!

So...since Hulk is just a green Bigfoot...and Nolans Batman never addresses Bigfoot...and why should it??? That means that Hulk and Batman could theoretically exist in the same world.

By the way, you can replace Hulk with Jason Vorhees and the ssame holds true...Batman ha never heard of Jason because he isnt anywhere near Gotham.

So...back to the point...why in the world would Batman have to be changed in some way just because half way across the country is a guy in a green suit who shoots arrows????

 

[biolumen]

So you're of the belief that the solo movies can be made without any regard to each other, each possibly existing in radically different universes, and in the end, all the superheroes cobbled together for a team up film without any concern?

 

[Steelsheen]

Giving each film maker total freedom mean the movies are all more than likely going to be completely different. How do you then make characters with completely different directions and styles work together? The excuse 'because it's like that in the comics' is not valid. You can do one of three things, do what Marvel are doing, make fairly standard flicks with the same tone and style culminating in a grand old team up film, you can create individual universes and focus on giving each one their own unique film series, or probably the easiest, simply make a JL film out of continuity. And really if as you say the draw is there to see a JL film, then you don't need the same characters from solo flicks.

So you're of the belief that the solo movies can be made without any regard to each other, each possibly existing in radically different universes, and in the end, all the superheroes cobbled together for a team up film without any concern?

listen folks, its like this: just because one movie never said anything or showed anything onscreen about a flying man or magic rings or ancient secluded cultures doesnt mean they dont exist in that movie's universe. it simply means that movie did not address it. there is nothing in Nolan's films that would invalidate the existence of Superman, Green Lantern or the rest of the other superheroes. and to say that Nolan's Batman films are so reality based just listen to this-- the top crimefighter is a guy dressed like a bat. how much more preposterous and so unrealistic is that? but it is believable, millions of people bought into it. just look at the box office.

it is true that artistic style of a movie matters specially if the studio plans to merge them together someday, but tell me which superhero movie dont have some degree of realism? every live action superhero movie since Reeve's Superman has that feel of it-can-happen-in-real-life (ok well, maybe with the exception of the Schumacher films). Nolan's films are not unique in this. he merely exorcised the ridiculousness out of the Batman films and brought it at par where the rest of the superhero films are currently at.

also about the actors being in the JL/ team up movie, werent you guys around during the JL casting and pre-production phase? they tried that route-- casting different actors-- a different Batman. and believe it or not it took a bit of steam off the JL hype. i dont know how many people-- general audience type folks, who were crestfallen when they heard that Bale is not playing Batman in the JL movie. here's how the conversation usually went:

General Audience type person (GATP): Hey I heard there's gonna be a Justice League movie/ Hey are they gonna make a Justice League movie?
Me: Yup. They're in pre-production now and are doing casting.
GATP: Cool! Is that Batman fellow (aka Christian Bale) gonna be in it?
Me: Uhm.... Christian Bale? No, another guy is gonna play Batman.
GATP: Oh. <pause> Why not?
Me: <loss for words> Its.... complicated.

I do exaplain it to those who wouldnt mind staying through the entire explanation. but its plain to see that they are looking forward to see more of Bale as Bats. if you guys were reading my previous posts (were you? ) i have explained why the general audience becomes attached to one actor in a role or the other. and how changing actors despite time duration or plot differences doesnt always fly with the public.

please dont think i'm talking out of my ass guys because i'm not. for all the years i've been on the Hype, everything that i post here has always had a basis of truth.

 

[jmc]

So let me get this straight jml...in your life...in real life...you have NEVER crossed paths with a stranger...NEVER met face to face with someone who lived a different lifestyle than you or had a different world view or experience???

thats really all we're talking about here you know...

Ah, we are talking movies, not real life. That's a pointless analogy.

 

[jmc]

The solo movies can more easily acheive their greatest potential when unencumbered by studio directives to maintain some ambiguous continuity with the other solo movies. That's not to say they won't work if they are required to do so. It's just that the chances for success are improved if the filmakers are allowed to make creative decisions that are in the best interests of that movie, and that movie alone. Would BB and TDK be any better if WB had required Nolan to instead create a universe for those movies that would be more accomidating to alien superheroes?

Less studio interference, the greater the potential for quality and unique films.

 

[Heretic]

Ah, we are talking movies, not real life. That's a pointless analogy.

Wait...so in real life it's possible to have people with completely different life paths and radically different surroundings, and somehow thats not possible in film???


and Biolumen:

Why do you think its so imposible for two people to exist on the same planet and have different lifestyles and eventually meet.

lets take this an even more obvious route...

On this planet there are multimillionaires...lets say...Bill Gates. He's a genius, right? I have virtually no knowledge of his life. Im busy living my life and am not going to keep track of what he is doing. if he was...say...kidnapped by a terrorist group...I would hear about it, but it wouldnt affect my day.

Okay...I saw a show on tv the other day that mentioned a guy who claimed to be in regular contact with aliens. Again, Im really not well-versed on thiss guys life...and Im willing to bet that Bill Gates doesnt spend any time at all thinking of this guy. Furthermore, it is likely that this guy knows very little about Bill Gates.

Now...what if Bill Gates had been interviewed in the same studio on the same day??? Thats right...a shocking as it seems...these two strangers could actually...GASP...THEY COULD MEET!!!!!!

By the way, replace Bill Gates with Tony Stark and our UFO abductee with Elliot and suddenly ET and Iron Man take place on the same planet.

I know what you're thinking..."but Heretic...I know its possible IN REAL LIFE for two totally different people with totally different lives to exist...but these are MOVIES and movies arent capable of such things due to the extremely limited things you can do with film!!! Two people CANNOT exist on the same planet without crossing over back and forth!!!!"

And I say that make no sense.

I exist....you exist. We never cross paths. However, some day we might meet at a movie theater or german midget porn convention. Amazing as it sounds, we are not planting plot seeds for this meeting right now.

Imagine...two heroes...different sides of the planet...never meeting...and then freaking Darksied shows up, blowing the world to smithereens...and you just dont see any reason for these heroes to maybe meet each other???

 

[Heretic]

I just realized that Thelma And Louise never cross paths or plant seeds for a future team-up with Lee harvey Oswald from the film JFK. Therefore, under prevailing logis here...Thelma and Louise MUST live on some bizarre mirror world where JFK was never president.

This is mind-blowing! According to the logic Im hearing in this thread, in order for the two movies to co-exist on the same planet, Thelma MUST have been friends with Jack Ruby and sine the JFK assassination was never mentioned at all in Thelma and Louise, then they can not possibly have lived on the same planet!

 

[FaT_tONle]

You guys are taking this too far... I agree for the most part that you can have radically different solo films... and still have a cross over movie. I think a tone similar to X-Men would work, but keep the movie as grounded as possible. I think it will work for but ONLY if the plot for a JL movie is grounded as close to reality as you can possibly make it without sacrificing what a JL movie should be about. Something like X-Men where threats like William Stryker are very plausible. AT LEAST ground it for the FIRST film. If I am using Nolan's Batman... I wouldn't jump into White Martians or Darkseid in the first film. I'd use a more realistic plot... maybe saving the extra-terestrial stuff for later films. If they use a different version of Batman (less realistic) then that alien stuff is fine for the first film.

 

[Heretic]

You guyss wouldnt believe what just happened to me!

was on a bus going downtown, and this dude pulled out a knife and went after some woman. Me and another guy grabbed him and forced him down when I relaized...wait...Ive never heard of this guy before. I pondered for awhile how this guy and I could never have crossed paths before. I mean...we live on the same planet...and it shouldnt take an act of violence in society to bring us together...so I threw my hands up...obviously having momentarily crossed over into some parallel dimension, and ran off bewildered. Its just too freaky to think that I could actually meet a new person like that!

 

[marcvader]

funny

 

[BestGirl]

listen folks, its like this: just because one movie never said anything or showed anything onscreen about a flying man or magic rings or ancient secluded cultures doesnt mean they dont exist in that movie's universe. it simply means that movie did not address it. there is nothing in Nolan's films that would invalidate the existence of Superman, Green Lantern or the rest of the other superheroes. and to say that Nolan's Batman films are so reality based just listen to this-- the top crimefighter is a guy dressed like a bat. how much more preposterous and so unrealistic is that? but it is believable, millions of people bought into it. just look at the box office.

The League of Shadows from BB had a definite fantastical feel to it. They're a group of ninjas who have supposedly existed for centuries, destroying civilizations while remaining undetected. I don't think powerful rings or aliens are such a stretch from that.

also about the actors being in the JL/ team up movie, werent you guys around during the JL casting and pre-production phase? they tried that route-- casting different actors-- a different Batman. and believe it or not it took a bit of steam off the JL hype. i dont know how many people-- general audience type folks, who were crestfallen when they heard that Bale is not playing Batman in the JL movie.

Yeah, I would love to have Bale in a JLA movie, but I don't think he would agree to be in one unless the script were really, really good. Even then it's unlikely. I think he'll do his Batman trilogy and be done unfortunately. I don't have much hope of seeing a JLA movie for at least a decade, maybe much longer.

 

[solidsnake86]

People need to get over batman's realism. Obviously it works for the series but seriously, the guys manages to take out a swat team through improvisation. Thats unrealistic. If they want to put Nolan's Batman in a JL film they will. If its actually a good script I even think bale would go for it.

 

[Double Down]

Actually there's a whole list of people who were the producers for Dark Knight.

1. Kevin De La Noy .... executive producer
2. Jordan Goldberg .... associate producer
3. Philip Lee .... line producer: Hong Kong
4. Karl McMillan .... production associate producer
5. Benjamin Melniker .... executive producer
6. Christopher Nolan .... producer
7. Charles Roven .... producer
8. Emma Thomas .... producer
9. Thomas Tull .... executive producer
10. Michael E. Uslan ... executive producer

A lot of those titles are meaningless...

It reminds me of the dialogue from David Mamet's State and Main:

Joseph Turner White: What's an associate producer credit?
Bill Smith: It's what you give to your secretary instead of a raise.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Giving each film maker total freedom mean the movies are all more than likely going to be completely different. How do you then make characters with completely different directions and styles work together? The excuse 'because it's like that in the comics' is not valid. You can do one of three things, do what Marvel are doing, make fairly standard flicks with the same tone and style culminating in a grand old team up film, you can create individual universes and focus on giving each one their own unique film series, or probably the easiest, simply make a JL film out of continuity. And really if as you say the draw is there to see a JL film, then you don't need the same characters from solo flicks.

The one thing that will be apparent in all these movies is that it will be about a superhero in a modern world. Also, Gl, Flash, Batman, Superman,etc. would have the same target audience. Captain Marvel is possibly looking for a younger target audience so Im not holding my breath about whether he could be considered.

A JLA out of continuity is a very valid direction, but i think it is the biggest bunch of ******** to say that a movie about characters from different backgrounds, power abilities and sources, and motives couldnt use all the solos that have different backgrounds, power abilities and sources, and motives. Whether you use the solos or not, Batman is still most likely a sulking detective from a dirty crime ridden city and Superman will still be a boyscout symbol of hope in a modern city with a classic feel. These invisible speed bumps everyone keeps talking about are so overblown.

And the excuse, what happens in comics isnt always valid is kinda ******** too. This isnt Wolverines stupid looking mask we're talking about. We are talking about 3 dimensional characters and their interactions, and the limitations characterized through others. Batman wont be knocking out aliens. Im cool with that, but there are plenty of roles for him to fill. First season of JL had him as the benefactor, running down witnesses, needing help with more powerful adversaries, etc. I think it comes down to the fact that people think that if Batman appears in JLA movie than demons and aliens will be running around Gotham in Batman 3 or 4 or whatever. Frankly, 500+ million dollar revenue will mean the studios wont be forcing Nolan do anything he won't want to.

 

[AnorexicBatman]

After reading the GreenLantern script, I can say that a common universe interpenetration will be a bit difficult to pull off. Solo films with a out of continuity JL movie seems the best idea at the time.

 

[biolumen]

Why do you think its so imposible for two people to exist on the same planet and have different lifestyles and eventually meet.

I think you're missing my point.

"We're going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it."

With this quote, Robinov is showing a willingness to constrain the solo movies to follow to some degree the dark, brooding model of TDK. I'm not saying it wouldn't work for some of the movies. The point is that the movies are already handicapped before being allowed to explore all creative possibilities. Worse, the meddling will likely go beyond this 'make it darker' directive if they're intent on getting all the same characters together for a team up film.

I'm thinking that WB is still trying to decide how best to proceed with their DC properties. While it was initially indicated that they were going to follow Marvel's lead, there's probably still some heated debate within the studio's upper hierarchy on whether if that is truly in the best interests of WB.

 

[REDophile]

Nolan has done a fantastic job with his take on Batman, especially with not enforcing too much of himself into it and letting them speak for themselves. But I sense a certain amount of arrogance in his attitude of "this/that won't work in my universe," which WB takes too seriously by delaying on other DC superhero movies.

 

[Heretic]

I think you're missing my point.

"We're going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it."

With this quote, Robinov is showing a willingness to constrain the solo movies to follow to some degree the dark, brooding model of TDK. I'm not saying it wouldn't work for some of the movies. The point is that the movies are already handicapped before being allowed to explore all creative possibilities. Worse, the meddling will likely go beyond this 'make it darker' directive if they're intent on getting all the same characters together for a team up film.

I'm thinking that WB is still trying to decide how best to proceed with their DC properties. While it was initially indicated that they were going to follow Marvel's lead, there's probably still some heated debate within the studio's upper hierarchy on whether if that is truly in the best interests of WB.

Captain Marvel is a middle class child...Batman is a bitter, borderline psychopathic millionaire adult...they can exist in the same world just fine while having absolutely nothing to do with each other. The childs life can be more whimsical, while the adults life can be dark and gritty. Kind of like real life...

 

[jmc]

Nolan has done a fantastic job with his take on Batman, especially with not enforcing too much of himself into it and letting them speak for themselves. But I sense a certain amount of arrogance in his attitude of ''this/that won't work in my universe'' which WB takes too seriously by delaying on other DC superhero movies.

What attitude? It's his interpretation of Batman, not the DC universe, and to him Batman is the only character in that world. Nolan is not the one delaying the other characters from being made.

 

[biolumen]

The childs life can be more whimsical, while the adults life can be dark and gritty. Kind of like real life...

I perfectly understand that. But does Robinov? See my point? I just don't trust WB to keep their meddling fingers out of the solo movies, especially considering what they've said publicly about their intentions for these movies. Not that it would guarantee greatness, but if, in the end, they decide to allow the movies (including JLA) free reign to find their own path, unconstrained, then great.

 

[Oddzball]

Marvel is winning on the movie front for a simple reaoson: They are crankingout films. Good, bad indifferent, they put the damn thing out and move on the the next project.

Warner Brothers is forgetting that to get big ticket sales, you have to have ticket sales. If you want to whet the appetites for Super mega Blockbuster Super Hero fims, toss out perfectly acpetable super hero 'B' films between your blockbusters.

It's about momentum.

Marvel will crank out Blade and Punisher films not to please auteur school versions of fan boys but to give comic book fans reason to keep going to the theaters, to make a habit out of it.

One blockbuster does not a great summer make. Except for Star Wars and Titanic, you don't see lots of repeat business on a film. Buy a ticket see it and that's it with that customer.

You do better business with several good films in a short time frame.

You don't have to make everything optimized. In fact YOU can't. You guys aren't film makers. You're marketing guys and MBA drones who worked on corporate politics and backstabbing to get where you are. You are NOT creative film makers. Those guys are the peasants you hire and fire.

Well if you want to dine off the cash cow of comic book movies, keep your hands off and let your people do the work.

Beef, Mutton and Pork are Norman (French) words where the original words mean the animals. As well as the meat. Cattle, Sheep and Pigs are Saxon (English) words which originally meant the meat as well as the animal.

How did these terms separate into meats and animals? The Normans ruled England. They ate the meats the Saxons raised. The Norman names got associated with the Meats. The Saxon Names stuck to the animals.

You guys in your corner offices are the Norman. You're overpaid toshuffle money around. You are not suited to raise the damn animals (film making). Accept the fact that you're just glorified accountants, office managers and purchasing agents and let the directors writers and actors create.

YOU cannot make these movies better content wise. Your closest brush to creation is ad copy. Stick to what you can do and let the people who CAN make the movies make the movies.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Once Nolan is done with the third WB will make their move... Superman reboot and a GL film will follow. That's my bet. They will probably make a play at Bale for a JLA film in 2014. I wouldn't necessarily rush it like that... but that's what I think they will do. But first they have to get Nolan to comitt to 2011. If he doesn't then Nolan has no say in the matter... WB has to move on if they intend on going forward with the other projects.

 

[Steelsheen]

The League of Shadows from BB had a definite fantastical feel to it. They're a group of ninjas who have supposedly existed for centuries, destroying civilizations while remaining undetected. I don't think powerful rings or aliens are such a stretch from that.

exactly my point.

Yeah, I would love to have Bale in a JLA movie, but I don't think he would agree to be in one unless the script were really, really good. Even then it's unlikely. I think he'll do his Batman trilogy and be done unfortunately. I don't have much hope of seeing a JLA movie for at least a decade, maybe much longer.

People need to get over batman's realism. Obviously it works for the series but seriously, the guys manages to take out a swat team through improvisation. Thats unrealistic. If they want to put Nolan's Batman in a JL film they will. If its actually a good script I even think bale would go for it.

i'm also a little unsure if Bale will go for another franchise like JL after Terminator. his career plan (for lack of a better word) was to have another franchise after the Nolan films to provide for the retirement fund. JL was supposed to be that franchise. but that went under and now he has Terminator.

will Bale ever do JL after Terminator? thats a big question mark right now. boredom is his number one enemy and thats usually what will keep him away from things where he feels he's repeating himself. unless theres something about the JL movie that he will want to participate in-- director, co-stars, the material itself-- it will be tough to get him to sign on.

Once Nolan is done with the third WB will make their move... Superman reboot and a GL film will follow. That's my bet. They will probably make a play at Bale for a JLA film in 2014. I wouldn't necessarily rush it like that... but that's what I think they will do. But first they have to get Nolan to comitt to 2011. If he doesn't then Nolan has no say in the matter... WB has to move on if they intend on going forward with the other projects.

i dont think WB will want to wait that long before they make their next move. they'll wait a year at most (hence the DC projects being "on pause") but they need those tentpole movies chugging along. so far they have HP and The Hobbit booked until 2012, but they usually need one more tentpole to tidy up each year. that should be where the superhero movies would fit in.

Marvel is winning on the movie front for a simple reaoson: They are crankingout films. Good, bad indifferent, they put the damn thing out and move on the the next project.

Warner Brothers is forgetting that to get big ticket sales, you have to have ticket sales. If you want to whet the appetites for Super mega Blockbuster Super Hero fims, toss out perfectly acpetable super hero 'B' films between your blockbusters.

It's about momentum.

Marvel will crank out Blade and Punisher films not to please auteur school versions of fan boys but to give comic book fans reason to keep going to the theaters, to make a habit out of it.

One blockbuster does not a great summer make. Except for Star Wars and Titanic, you don't see lots of repeat business on a film. Buy a ticket see it and that's it with that customer.

You do better business with several good films in a short time frame.

You don't have to make everything optimized. In fact YOU can't. You guys aren't film makers. You're marketing guys and MBA drones who worked on corporate politics and backstabbing to get where you are. You are NOT creative film makers. Those guys are the peasants you hire and fire.

Well if you want to dine off the cash cow of comic book movies, keep your hands off and let your people do the work.

Beef, Mutton and Pork are Norman (French) words where the original words mean the animals. As well as the meat. Cattle, Sheep and Pigs are Saxon (English) words which originally meant the meat as well as the animal.

How did these terms separate into meats and animals? The Normans ruled England. They ate the meats the Saxons raised. The Norman names got associated with the Meats. The Saxon Names stuck to the animals.

You guys in your corner offices are the Norman. You're overpaid toshuffle money around. You are not suited to raise the damn animals (film making). Accept the fact that you're just glorified accountants, office managers and purchasing agents and let the directors writers and actors create.

YOU cannot make these movies better content wise. Your closest brush to creation is ad copy. Stick to what you can do and let the people who CAN make the movies make the movies.

is that an open letter to WB?

 

[The Major]

Captain Marvel is a middle class child...Batman is a bitter, borderline psychopathic millionaire adult

Borderline psychotic?

He passed into psychotic territory a long time ago, IMO.

 

[biolumen]

will Bale ever do JL after Terminator? thats a big question mark right now.

Would he do it? I'm not certain he would, but much would depend on his career circumstances at that time. I am certain, however, that if they want him for JLA, they're gonna have to pay him a ghastly sum of money, especially if Batman 3 is a runaway success. All the more reason WB should be looking at making a JLA movie out of continuity. Such a movie would be relieved of the fiscal and creative constraints that would otherwise burden it if it was a direct decendent of the precurser solo movies, the quality and success of which are far from being an automatic slam dunk guarantee.

i dont think WB will want to wait that long before they make their next move. they'll wait a year at most (hence the DC projects being "on pause") but they need those tentpole movies chugging along. so far they have HP and The Hobbit booked until 2012, but they usually need one more tentpole to tidy up each year. that should be where the superhero movies would fit in.

Oh, they can wait. Unlike Marvel, WB doesn't need to make superhero movies to survive. In fact, they'd do just fine if they never made another superhero movie ever again. That's the frustrating part. In getting these movies made, I haven't seen any sense of urgency on WB's part since....well....ever. We all thought TDK would change that, but so far it's been only talk, or rather, brief quotes and vague pronouncements. Too early to know for certain if their plans will accelerate like Robinov promised in the WSJ article? Perhaps, but you'll have to excuse me while I don't get my hopes up.