Grant Morrison....W. T. F?

[Cain]

Bats tortured Scarface who is...made of wood.

What about Killer Croc and the nameless that he mercilessly brutally abuses in the first 3 issues alone Punisher style? sorry man it was just too far removed from what Batman was established to be up to that point. I excuse that type of behavior in the movies and elseworlds books because they're not in line with regular continuity but I prefer it stays within those type of stories.

 

[Cain]

It's pretty obvious you have a different Bat-taste than some so like I said, to each his own. It's just not my, or many others, cup of tea.

I hear that but I wouldn't really say that it's that I have a different taste than some as I share a lot of favorite stories with many on here (Ie: NML, TKJ and Year One amongst many). Just that as I said before not all the stories will reach all of us the same way.

 

[Punchinello]

because it defies logic. His Bat-stories (other than Arkham Asylum) have been ****

Ditto.

 

[jewmaican20]

ha ha ha other characters were out of touch like this guy named Batman. He was the same one who listened to an entire monologue from the commisioner about not crossing the line in the previous arc. Yet he has no problem being a torturing sadistic jerk in Broken City while he spits some stale ass dialogue. It was just too much for me to sit through there is a difference between Batman being a badass and Batman being a psycho. I only enjoy psycho Batman when I enjoy the writing and in this case I didn't considering how uninspiring the writing was. Again it was like trying to turn Batman into 100 Bullets and it just wasn't flowing for me.

Hell, if he had written Batman in Broken City the way he wrote him in Joker, the entire story would have been different, and better. But I digress.
I think Grant Morrison is a great writer, and while some of his ideas may seem disjointed, when looked at in it's entirety, there is a linear quality to it.
I believe I would have enjoyed his run much more if I had brushed up on my Bat trivia (i.e. the material that he was plumbing from the depths of the sci fi era in the 50's) beforehand. A major part of my initial struggle came from not getting the references he was making.
About halfway through I read up on a lot of it, and things seemed to be a lot clearer. I would suggest that anyone who has not started Morrison's run yet do that first, and I'd be interested to see whether it makes a difference or not.

 

[Cain]

Hell, if he had written Batman in Broken City the way he wrote him in Joker, the entire story would have been different, and better. But I digress.

Yeah that was one of the highlights of an otherwise average (not bad just average) story as brief as it was. I wanted to see more of that Batman. The problem he fell into with BC was in trying to ape Miller's hardboiled Batman. I love that guy and he usually works when Miller writes him but that's the thing only Miller could pull that off when others try to copy that it falls flat most of the time. Cause they don't get like Miller does that even though he's brutal he's still ethical in TDKR.

In BC they wrote him like he threw morality out the window and forgot his way. In the mainstream titles that's what I don't want to see I want to see a characterization that jives with the rest of the mainstream titles. This is probably why Miller himself wisely toned it down with his Batman in Year One.

I agree with you about Morisson also but here's the funny thing I've owned Batman in the 40's, 50's and 60's for years now and I also own the Batman archives volumes as well as some Showcase joints that feature Bats. So I was already familiar with some of the more absurd Batman stories Morisson drew inspiration from to me what made it work is that he actually loan some credibility to those stories with his reinterpretations. It added a different layer to stories that I found forgetable and to me only a good writer is capable of doing something like that.

My only issue was in Morisson assuming everybody owns a vast collection of Batman comics from era like I and some other fans do though cause that's not true. There are some Batman fans who don't even own more than one TPB. I think they should've shed some light on were some of these ideas came from like a caption box that says "way back in Batman #50" or something to help the ones who aren't too savvy about that stuff. That's probably why so many feel lost with his tales.

 

[margon]

Morrisons run has been the best thing for Batman since Gotham Central. If you fail to realize that then I wish to insult you personally, because you are a person of lesser worth

it's a shame there's only about four other guys on this board who can actually get it

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Morrisons run has been the best thing for Batman since Gotham Central. If you fail to realize that then I wish to insult you personally, because you are a person of lesser worth

it's a shame there's only about four other guys on this board who can actually get it

Is he serious?

 

[[A]]

Puppets are people, too....

I'm in trouble then.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I will say this though, if those memories in Batman 682-683 turn out to be real, then I'll be really angry at Morrison. It's one thing to pull Silver age into continuity (which is cool), but its darn ignorant and disgraceful to ignore all recent writers. The creation of Nightwing in his Year One which was an enormous character change and study is now just a throwaway idea if true. And don't get me started on Batwoman, she was one of the bad aspects of Silver Age, she used cosmetic themed weapons!

but yeah, if it turns out to be mind fuzz because of The lump I'll be happy.

 

[jewmaican20]

I think they should've shed some light on were some of these ideas came from like a caption box that says "way back in Batman #50" or something to help the ones who aren't too savvy about that stuff. That's probably why so many feel lost with his tales.

Well, the comic publishers haven't been doing that nearly as much as they used to. They sort of recap on the first page and continue on. ASM has reprised that little editorial box in the corner, and I was happy to see it again, if only for nostalgic reasons.
That said, if they would have reprinted the original stories in the backs of strategic issues - or if they include some of the original stories in the trades and hardcovers - that would also have a positive effect. A lot of people thought that Morrison was making up this stuff himself, which irked them as well.
I believe he was respectful of the mythos. Very respectful. I've always enjoyed his characterization of Batman; one of my favorite stories is Grant's first JLA arc, because he sums up what Batman is, and his strengths. The whole "back up personality" shtick was a bit of a stretch, but I enjoyed it because only the Batman would even think that far ahead! Amazing!

If you fail to realize that then I wish to insult you personally, because you are a person of lesser worth

Jeez, calm down.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Grant Morrison's work on Batman has seemed to be highly polarizing. You either absolutely love it and think it's genius, or you detest it with a feiry rage. There doesn't seem to be much scope for middle ground. I happen to be in the former category, but the guy talking about how anyone who doesn't like this is "a person of lesser worth" is giving us all a bad name. This is clearly not for everyone. But for people who DO like stuff that's a little more challenging and unconventional, a story like Batman RIP offers plenty of rewards.

 

[CConn]

I can see how someone could think his ideas are genius, but if you can, explain to me how you can enjoy his middle-beginning-end form of storytelling he's taken with almost every single issue of his run? I mean, unless you've read his entire run beforehand, it makes no sense. IMO, of course.

 

[C. W. Saturn]

I can see how someone could think his ideas are genius, but if you can, explain to me how you can enjoy his middle-beginning-end form of storytelling he's taken with almost every single issue of his run? I mean, unless you've read his entire run beforehand, it makes no sense. IMO, of course.

absolutely. It's not the ideas, it's just that everything was thrown around without any order.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Morrison has written Batman like someone on some oldschool drugs from the 70s sees reality; scattered, disoriented, and just plain ****ed up. It seemed as though in every arc and in every issue, Morrison started by jumping right into the middle of something, giving us absolutely no explanation of what was going on, and then, after continuously explaining it enough to give us some iota of an idea of what the story's about, he ended with an stunningly abrupt and mediocre ending.

He had pretty cool story ideas, but it was as if he handed them off to be written by a child; so excited about the idea and the end result, he totally and completely overlooks writing a quality and gripping narrative for others to follow.

I understand Morrison is supposed to be out there and off the wall, that's great, that's why I read his work, and so looked forward to him coming onto Batman, but there's a distinct difference between writing great stories that were innovative and ahead of the curve, and just plain writing nonsensical crap. All Star Superman, Arkham Asylum...those were examples of the former, but this Batman run, and this stuff he's doing on Final Crisis? It isn't good, it isn't innovative. It's just confusing. Which almost totally confused and alienated me as a reader.

You're pretty spot on there, CConn. That stated, Batman #680, 682 and 683have been pretty enjoyable; even well done, IMHO. Only wish the rest of the arc was that good.

Not a lot of Broken City fans in this thread, I see. Interesting. I'm a big fan of Azzarello's film noirish approach to the title even though it fell a bit short towards the end. Dialogue was brilliant and the supposedly "psycho" Batman wasn't so out of character, I think. Azarello was certainly not the first author to depict Bats as someone who pushes the limits of what is right and wrong using questionable tactics, often putting him at odds with boyscouts like Supes. After all, the Nolan films had to draw their inspiration from somewhere. My thoughts.

 

[Joker]

My favorite part of the whole Batman RIP thing was that it started around the same time as the Dark Knight came out. So of course I have friends who aren't into comics asking me what's happening with Batman, as they're interested in the character. And there I am, trying to explain an arc that is essentially "Batman dies on a bad acid trip, that a guy who may or may not be his father sent him on," and feeling like a total dumb ass. The looks I got trying to explain just Bat-Mite alone made me ashamed to even be buying it. The only saving graces were the incredible art, and the Joker characterization.

Also, Broken City was god damn awful. Azzarello turned Batman from the worlds greatest detective into an idiot who couldn't solve the murder of a petty thug, while the Joker, who was locked up in Arkham the entire god damn time, somehow knew for no reason at all other than Azzarello wanted to shoe-horn in an appearance. Ugh.

 

[margon]

Is he serious?

Am I serious you mean? Of course. Are you someone worth taking seriously? No. I've noted your posts.

the guy talking about how anyone who doesn't like this is "a person of lesser worth" is giving us all a bad name. This is clearly not for everyone. But for people who DO like stuff that's a little more challenging and unconventional, a story like Batman RIP offers plenty of rewards.

golly Keyser lighten up ha ha

I can see how someone could think his ideas are genius, but if you can, explain to me how you can enjoy his middle-beginning-end form of storytelling he's taken with almost every single issue of his run? I mean, unless you've read his entire run beforehand, it makes no sense. IMO, of course.

1. it's quite a standard practice, to start in the middle. what's so difficult about it? ultimately it if still makes sense it's all good. are you saying it doesn't make sense or you simply resent the technique in the first place? if you really think it doesn't make sense then you're lacking, no offense. it makes perfect sense to people of quality

2. the trick isn't used nearly to the extent you make out it is. you're kind of exaggerating. I'm talking about your other posts on this subject as well.

 

[CConn]

1. it's quite a standard practice, to start in the middle. what's so difficult about it? ultimately it if still makes sense it's all good. are you saying it doesn't make sense or you simply resent the technique in the first place?

I'm saying it doesn't make sense until the middle or the end of the story. It's not just the middle-beginning-end format he uses, it's that the past two or three arcs literally feel as though they're being written and experienced by someone who's on drugs; everything's very unreal, you jump back and forth from past and present, the characters and the writer truthfully just seem to be in a daze.

I will admit, there's times were even that method of storytelling is effective. But, I feel, from pretty much the RIP prelude to present, Morrison has been in much too much of a daze, and has overdone that method to the point that it is unenjoyable.

if you really think it doesn't make sense then you're lacking, no offense. it makes perfect sense to people of quality

That's just ridiculous, and offensive. It's the standard excuse of pretentious people.

No offense.

2. the trick isn't used nearly to the extent you make out it is. you're kind of exaggerating. I'm talking about your other posts on this subject as well.

Well, that's kinda here nor there. The trick isn't used at all in his first arc, and the whole Black Glove arc...which are both quite good, so if it sounded like I was referring to them, yes, I was exaggerating. However, the rest of his run, I believe that "trick" was used just as heavily as I made it out to be.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Morrisons run has been the best thing for Batman since Gotham Central. If you fail to realize that then I wish to insult you personally, because you are a person of lesser worth

it's a shame there's only about four other guys on this board who can actually get it

Best thing for Batman in what way? In the way that it sucks but we're all sittin' around talking about it?

grant morrison sux balls, i hope dc never lets this ass clown near batman ever again, talk about blowing away and crapping on great batman stories that others have written before him, what trash this whole run has been. go to hell grant

Yeah you're right this has been the worst run since you've been alive I'd guess. You've been alive since what 2004 at least.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

Yeah you're right this has been the worst run since you've been alive I'd guess. You've been alive since what 2004 at least.

Seriously, it has been the worst run in quite some time, though. I can't think of a crappier run, or at least one that I enjoyed any less, in the 12 years I've been reading Batman comics. Judd Winick, even that terrible ending to Fugitive and Larry Hama's "interesting" post-NML stint were better than this...

 

[Motown Marvel]

whether you like the series or not, everyone needs to quit being so ridiculous in their assessment.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

Ridiculous storytelling calls for ridiculous analysis...

 

[Motown Marvel]

Ridiculous storytelling calls for ridiculous analysis...

maybe. but morrisons run has hardly been as ridiculous as people are making it out to be.

 

[CConn]

I wouldn't say it's that ridiculous in premise, just that it was poorly executed.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I wouldn't say it's that ridiculous in premise, just that it was poorly executed.

Re: Batman # 683, what do you think Bats is gonna do with the bullet he took from JLA headquarters? A bullet powerful enough to kill a god.. in the hands of The Batman. Hmm. Something tells me Batman is "gonna break his #1 rule..." What do you think?

 

[Drz]

Re: Batman # 683, what do you think Bats is gonna do with the bullet he took from JLA headquarters? A bullet powerful enough to kill a god.. in the hands of The Batman. Hmm. Something tells me Batman is "gonna break his #1 rule..." What do you think?

Agreed.