greatest marvel hero of all time

[kytrigger]

When I say worst drawn character I'm referering to the creativity and portrayal of the character, not the artwork. I have seen some very fine Superman pictures but the character is sad. I hated Kill Bill, but Bill agreed with me there, even though Superman is his favorite character.

Did you know Superman has 12 strand DNA and can't reproduce with humans? Did you know that Superman derives his powers from the yellow sun and not Earth's low gravity compared to Krypton? Did you know that when Superman was 3 years old his Kryptonian parents were concerned that he wasn't learning his calculus?

Superman moves at the speed of light and hears everything and tackles things like bank robberies where there are already police present to deal with it. He could be dealing with things no one would see like rapes, or murders in back alleys, instead of things everyone will see. Then he doesn't deal with issues in a timely manner. Yeah he killed what was supposed to be the ultimate life form (doomsday), and he died. But that doesn't make the character any more interesting or more creative.

But what about the other things that he has tried to do with his power? Like the time he tried to make it so that everyone in the world wouldn't go hungry for just one day. Or the fact he also helps save people from natural disasters, not just crime. And what does it matter if he stops bank robberies in fornt of everyone? Most heroes save people in the public eye. It's not that he cherishes the attention, it's because he doesn't care that peole see him. He's not gonna let a thing like a camera get in the way of saving people.

 

[glenthalium]

Oh, and Harlekin--forgot to mention--thanks for the welcome. Hobbes rules.

 

[Harlekin]

Did you know Superman has 12 strand DNA and can't reproduce with humans?

Uhm, but that's not true.

Did you know that Superman derives his powers from the yellow sun and not Earth's low gravity compared to Krypton?

Yes.

Did you know that when Superman was 3 years old his Kryptonian parents were concerned that he wasn't learning his calculus?

And where did you get this nugget of knowledge?

Superman moves at the speed of light and hears everything and tackles things like bank robberies where there are already police present to deal with it. He could be dealing with things no one would see like rapes, or murders in back alleys, instead of things everyone will see.

Dude, because we don't see them doesn't mean he doesn't do that stuff. I'd rather read about Superman stopping a bank robbery then him going through the back alleys of Metropolis and catching rapists. Why? Because I'd rather not read about rapists, and when I have a kid later I want to be able to give him a Superman comic and not see a woman on the verge of rape saved by Superman.

That's not a fault of the character, but a 'fault' of the genre. You want mature comics, read the designated mature comics. How often do you see people like Flash, Green Lantern, Captain America, Spider-Man etc. deal with rape cases as opposed to bank robberies?

Then he doesn't deal with issues in a timely manner. Yeah he killed what was supposed to be the ultimate life form (doomsday), and he died. But that doesn't make the character any more interesting or more creative.

Doesn't deal with things in a timely manner? So the multiple times where he saved the world, both with and without the Justice League, without any casualties at all means he doesn't deal with issues in a timely manner?

I think you've got a problem against superheroes. Not Superman. And I have the automatic question: What have you read of Superman?

 

[Harlekin]

Oh, and Harlekin--forgot to mention--thanks for the welcome. Hobbes rules.

My pleasure, and yes Hobbes rocks everybody's socks.

 

[samurai black]

Someone who performs actions for the betterment of others, with heroic intentions. Punisher kills criminals because that's all he can do. He's a lot like Deadshot in the fact that he most likely has a subconscious deathwish. It's long gone past vengeance over the fact that his family was murdered, and it was never about making sure it wouldn't happen to anybody else. Frank's entire life is built on the killing of criminals. The only moral bone in him is the fact that he'll only kill criminals. Beyond that, he's doing it purely because he isn't dead yet.

Spider-Man sees somebody being mugged, he thinks to himself: That person needs help.
Punisher sees somebody being mugged, he thinks to himself: That criminal needs to die or get severely injured.

Heroes do their actions in the name of someone else. The greatest trait of a hero is their selflessness and their setting aside the personal for another. Very few people are willing to sacrifice themselves for another. Heroes are those very few. The Punisher simply kills criminals because it satisfies him, rather than doing it to rid the world of another criminal.

That's both how I see heroes, and how I see Frank Castle.

Single handedly going after the criminals who plague our society while floating above the law is a heroic intention. Now yes, Frank may get more enjoyment from his work, but the result is still the same. Frank has on many occasion sacrificed himself for innocents. The only difference between him and spider-man(my fav) is that frank is permanetly getting rid of the menace while other heroes tend to put more faith in the legal system. All heroes punish the guilty, it's where they draw the line on punishment that separates them from Frank.

 

[Nightwing92]

well technically when it comes to iconic its captain america but when it comes to best its the one and only spiderman....

Iconic=

Best/Greatest=

 

[Harlekin]

Single handedly going after the criminals who plague our society while floating above the law is a heroic intention. Now yes, Frank may get more enjoyment from his work, but the result is still the same. Frank has on many occasion sacrificed himself for innocents. The only difference between him and spider-man(my fav) is that frank is permanetly getting rid of the menace while other heroes tend to put more faith in the legal system. All heroes punish the guilty, it's where they draw the line on punishment that separates them from Frank.

Did you even read what I posted after that bit? Frank doesn't do it in the name of innocents. Yeah, he did that in the beginning, I'll give you that. Now he's doing it because that's who he is. He's doing it because he isn't dead yet.

Also, what you said is not a heroic intention, heck it's not even intention. It's an act. Not an intention. Semantics, but what the hey.

 

[samurai black]

Did you even read what I posted after that bit? Frank doesn't do it in the name of innocents. Yeah, he did that in the beginning, I'll give you that. Now he's doing it because that's who he is. He's doing it because he isn't dead yet.

Also, what you said is not a heroic intention, heck it's not even intention. It's an act. Not an intention. Semantics, but what the hey.

I believe that he continues to do it bc the evil he exterminates continues to exist. Frank doesn't just kill drug dealers and pimps for the fun of it, he has fun while doing it, there is a difference. He lives in the community and knows what it does to it. He begins at the bottom and works his way up the chain. The way he operates is really no different from the way a narcotics detective would work a case, only he (frank) doesn't have to follow procedure and will kill at will. Frank's intention is to rid the world of those who would do harm upon it. I don't see how he is different (motive wise) than 99% of the other heroes.

 

[Harlekin]

I'm saying he does it because it's fun. I say he does because he has no idea of how to better spend his life. It isn't about the fun, it's about the fact that Frank is just waiting till finally one of the criminals he faces puts a bullet through his head.

 

[glenthalium]

I've only read early early Superman in compendiums, and I have read about him in many encyclopedias (which is where I learned he has 12 strand DNA, and the author of the article assumed that it would not be possible for him to reproduce with humans, however the new movie says different, but how did Superman get off Krypton to come back to Earth anyway? That particular article is on the dc database project linked to from the marvel one, but it's not loading on my computer right now.)

I love Marvel Comics. Yeah they have some stupid characters like the aforementioned Eye-Scream, and I don't feel like digging up other names right now, but theres a human element to all the characters. Almost all of Marvel's heros have an anti-hero element to them. Their first superhero was the Sub-Mariner. (never did figure out how it was supposed to be pronounced, and I've been a marvel fan for 8 years).

The superheros that I have the biggest problem with are DC's. Superman, Batman (although Christian Bale did a marvelous job), the Flash (i'm sorry, but faster than light is too much for me, and Superman is almost as fast). I can appreciate the Green Lanturns for creativity, but I know nothing of their personalities nor how they interact with villians, but the rings are cool.

Sorry if I seem hostile, I've just disapproved of Superman since I started reading comics. It's innate. And I've only read the Supreme Power through when Mark's alien heritage was revealed to the public. I have no idea what he's done since. But Millar is my favorite comic writer, and I think he did a great job with Hyperion in that series, it was a little bloody though, I wouldn't let kids read it. [FONT=&quot]Touché on the mentioning of what to give children. I worked at a daycare for almost 5 years, so I can appreciate the importance of that.
[/FONT]

 

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Wolverine!

 

[glenthalium]

As far as what they do, I'd say the Punisher is the best at what he does. Even better than Wolverine (whatever he does . . I think it's killing . . . maybe it's espionage and killing. Maybe it's just being bada**). If you've read Punisher kills the Marvel Universe (whatever it's called, and it can't be cannonical) he kills everyone, even the Hulk. They don't show him killing everyone, it's just stated. I know he started with Spiderman ("someone had to be first"), I think he ended with Wolverine.

Heroically? Punisher is out for vengence. There's very little hero to him. But if I were an ex-soldier and my family were killed, I don'tk now if I'd rely on our judicial system to take care of things.

 

[Harlekin]

I've only read early early Superman in compendiums, and I have read about him in many encyclopedias (which is where I learned he has 12 strand DNA, and the author of the article assumed that it would not be possible for him to reproduce with humans, however the new movie says different, but how did Superman get off Krypton to come back to Earth anyway? That particular article is on the dc database project linked to from the marvel one, but it's not loading on my computer right now.)

Ah, but that's just that particular author's opinion. There have been books like "Powers of Superman", which try to impart realism into the comic world, but especially when it comes to the reproductive part, suspension of disbelief is paramount. I know a lot of people also enjoy the 'Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex' idiom, but it really doesn't apply.

I love Marvel Comics. Yeah they have some stupid characters like the aforementioned Eye-Scream, and I don't feel like digging up other names right now, but theres a human element to all the characters. Almost all of Marvel's heros have an anti-hero element to them. Their first superhero was the Sub-Mariner. (never did figure out how it was supposed to be pronounced, and I've been a marvel fan for 8 years).

Ah, DC-bias. And that's not meant to be offensive, but it immediately becomes obvious that you've got a DC-bias. Also, it's Sub-Mariner as in:
Sub (like the abbreviation of submarine)
Mare (as in the female horse)
Ner (as in nerd, but without the d)
Crappy explanation, I know, but it'll do.

The superheros that I have the biggest problem with are DC's. Superman, Batman (although Christian Bale did a marvelous job), the Flash (i'm sorry, but faster than light is too much for me, and Superman is almost as fast). I can appreciate the Green Lanturns for creativity, but I know nothing of their personalities nor how they interact with villians, but the rings are cool.

Those are four characters in an entire patheon of street level to cosmic heroes. I take it then that you also don't like Silver Surfer? Any of the cosmic stories? The 'Marvel is more real' thing hasn't held up for ages. Sure, DC tends to use more iconic visuals, but beyond that, they are in many ways the same.

Also, the Flash can be interesting (same with Superman), but I can't really help in this regard unless you tell me what you've actually read of DC Comics. The Flash (or at least Wally West) was similar to Spider-Man in many ways. He just held a lot more power. Again, suspension of disbelief is paramount. Also, let's not forget, guys like Superman fight villains (beyond Luthor that is) that are on their level. Spider-Man fights guys on his levels, and so too does Superman.

Sorry if I seem hostile, I've just disapproved of Superman since I started reading comics. It's innate. And I've only read the Supreme Power through when Mark's alien heritage was revealed to the public. I have no idea what he's done since. But Millar is my favorite comic writer, and I think he did a great job with Hyperion in that series, it was a little bloody though, I wouldn't let kids read it. Touché on the mentioning of what to give children. I worked at a daycare for almost 5 years, so I can appreciate the importance of that.

JMS (same guy that writes Amazing Spider-Man) writes Supreme Power, not Millar.

 

[glenthalium]

So it is. I actually had never looked. A comic book store owner I talked to in the last city I lived in named Millar as writing it, and since I enjoyed the writing so much (and I knew I enjoyed Millar from the Ultimates) I didn't give it a second thought.
I have nothing against the Surfer, I'm just annoyed when he's stated to be more powerful than Thor. I didn't really care for Beta Ray Bill either, but when Thor died (a necessity of Asgard) he was the only thing there was, but his series didn't last long. Apparently most people don't think much of him either.

 

[Harlekin]

So it is. I actually had never looked. A comic book store owner I talked to in the last city I lived in named Millar as writing it, and since I enjoyed the writing so much (and I knew I enjoyed Millar from the Ultimates) I didn't give it a second thought.
I have nothing against the Surfer, I'm just annoyed when he's stated to be more powerful than Thor. I didn't really care for Beta Ray Bill either, but when Thor died (a necessity of Asgard) he was the only thing there was, but his series didn't last long. Apparently most people don't think much of him either.

His series was never meant to last long. It was a mini-series.

 

[glenthalium]

Did it finish? I moved to a town with no comic book store before it could be completed, and didn't find one nearby till this week.

 

[Harlekin]

Yeah, like, ages ago.

 

[Iron kid]

Everyone! There Is Now A Poll! Vote Now!!!!!!!

 

[YJ1]

Superman.

Who? You mean that Gladiator rip off?

Marvel's Greatest:

1) Captain America
2) Iron Man
3) Wolverine
4) Spider-Man
5) Daredevil

 

[freemadison]

That sums it up for me.

Oh....

and Benjamin Reilly...

 

[The Caped Knight]

Greatest marvel hero of all time

SPIDER-MAN

 

[Red_Dragon]

Easily Spider-man.

 

[The Leaguer]

Who? You mean that Gladiator rip off?

Marvel's Greatest:

1) Captain America
2) Iron Man
3) Wolverine
4) Spider-Man
5) Daredevil

No, the rip-off you're thinking of is Sentry, and that's of Superman. Gladiator was... well, he was a Superman rip-off, too.