Guggenheim to explain Logan's Healing

[Horrorfan]

No, hes living up past his powers at this point. LOL! Fanboys.

I think he's right actually.

It's become cool to hate on wolverine, as it always becomes cool to hate popular things once they reach a certain level.


I'm not saying its great that he healed from a skeleton, it does sound lame, but its not as if stupider things haven't happened, and I do think people are over reacting.

I would bet money on people being ok with it if he was someone else.

 

[Darthphere]

Probably, but it depends on the person, if they gave some B-List character a power boost, most people wouldnt mind. But the fact that Wolverine was already shown to be unbeatable and able to beat people he had no business doing so, now he can regenerate from a single cell, its gets all types of ridiculous.

 

[Horrorfan]

Probably, but it depends on the person, if they gave some B-List character a power boost, most people wouldnt mind. But the fact that Wolverine was already shown to be unbeatable and able to beat people he had no business doing so, now he can regenerate from a single cell, its gets all types of ridiculous.

Yeah but people like daredevil and punisher, who have NO buisness beating wolverine, do so and you don't hear people complaining then, even though thats just as illogical.

Wolverine isn't unbeatable either, he got his ass beat by sentry.

 

[Darthphere]

The Sentry? C'mon, if he beat The Sentry I wouldve given up on comics forever. (hyperbole) Lets be real here, and Wolverine wins far more than he loses.

 

[Horrorfan]

The Sentry? C'mon, if he beat The Sentry I wouldve given up on comics forever. (hyperbole) Lets be real here, and Wolverine wins far more than he loses.

I wasn't complaining. No way should he have beaten sentry. But thats my point. Its not as if he wins against everyone. even sue storm had him on the ropes in enemy of the state. and what heroe doesn't win far more than they lose? A hero who looses constantly would become a joke.

Like I say, Punisher and DD beating wolverine is as much a joke as this skeletal healing, yet you dont hear people complaining about it. Its double standards.

 

[Darthphere]

But the discrepency between defeats and wins is much larger than lets say a Daredevil or Spider-Man.

 

[Horrorfan]

But the discrepency between defeats and wins is much larger than lets say a Daredevil or Spider-Man.

Yeah but wolverine was bred as a weapon. He doesn't hold back as much as those guys. Fighting and winning is what weapon x designed him for. DD and Spidey are good fighters, but they weren't bred for it, and it could be argued spidey joking around makes him underestimate his enemies sometimess.

 

[Horrorfan]

I also remember Garth Ennis having wolvie's face blown up to a skull and him healing, and having him steam rollered over and healing, which is also just as bad.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

No, hes living up past his powers at this point. LOL! Fanboys.

Weak. Sub Par. Immature. Unoriginal.

Fan has already highlighted the validity of my argument, thankfully you were able to get it from a second hand since you obviously missed the boat the first time around. Rather, you simply can't see flaws when it comes to some people.

 

[BrianWilly]

He did survive being burnt to a crisp by the SUN while on a spceship and that didn't take long at all. Or has that been retconned as well?

We never see that he was burnt to a crisp. Jean Grey saved them both, or else they really would have died. In the next issue, we see him regenerating his eyes and burnt flesh, but we never see any regeneration from the ridiculous excesses of a single cell, which Guggenheim seems to be under the impression of. It simply was never shown.

If he was burnt to nothing by the sun, then Jean Grey would have been burnt to nothing by the sun too. Which means that she would have died -- in the next issue she dies by EMP, which means it's clearly possible for her to die by normal means even as the Phoenix -- which means that no one would have saved them. So obviously he wasn't burnt to nothing.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

They're going to moan because they don't like Wolverine's evolution, and in some cases they don't like him period. If he's actually living up to his powers then it's not cool.

If it were Cyclops or Sue Storm it'd be fine.

No, I don't want Cyclops having full control of his optic blasts or becoming living energy (both of which have been suggested...and in some cases shown to be the case) either.

 

[wobbly]

I think he's right actually.

It's become cool to hate on wolverine, as it always becomes cool to hate popular things once they reach a certain level.


I'm not saying its great that he healed from a skeleton, it does sound lame, but its not as if stupider things haven't happened, and I do think people are over reacting.

I would bet money on people being ok with it if he was someone else.

On the popularity thing I'd disagree on the basis that it generally isn't Wolverine people are hating on (I'm certainly not) but this unessecary and illogical* power boost he has been given.

*Why is the power boost illogical? As mentioned before, as this level of healing has been shown as being present pre-weapon X, it makes the purpose of giving him adamantium bones in the first place utterly redundant.

 

[Spade]

Marvel needs to start learning as that as a storytelling group it's stories are growing less and less coherent as time goes by. We have a Spider-Man with even-greater powers after The Other getting the heck beat out of him by no-names, a Jean Grey who comes back after every belated death with the same horse's end excuse every time (sometimes even stronger), and now this. The posters before me were right; the believability that Wolverine will ever be in mortal danger outside of an 'Achilles heel' they gave him- decapitation- is limited. About the only reason I can see that they haven't given him "Thor-tough skin" is because they just want to show him gored on a frequent basis, and even that is getting old (Adamantium removal, anyone?).

What's ticking me off the most, though, is how the only highlight of his tales are now "how he came back from death." At some point before X2 and Quesada's reign I actually liked this clawed Canadian ball of additude. Now I just laugh derisively at how convoluted he's become and keep on walking.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

People have to learn power ups are generally an escape or cop out from good story telling.

What should we do with Wolverine, "uh...let's give him an unexplained power up...that'll make people interested".

Maybe this works as a short term strategy, but it is a bad long term one. Look at Whedon, who could make Cyclops, Wolverine AND Shadowcat interesting again without making any ridiculous or unexplained changes.

 

[Red Mask]

It makes his whole story anti-climactic, same as it was in the X3. If he can never be killed physically, there's no sense of urgency.

It does sort of explain why he's so bad at defending himself from harm. You'd think he'd use his reflexes to avoid dangerous attacks, but noooooo!

 

[Red Mask]

This explanation is just too extreme. I believe if he kept himself in shape and ate well his healing factor could get stronger. But to have this emergency back up mode is absurd.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

We never see that he was burnt to a crisp. Jean Grey saved them both, or else they really would have died. In the next issue, we see him regenerating his eyes and burnt flesh, but we never see any regeneration from the ridiculous excesses of a single cell, which Guggenheim seems to be under the impression of. It simply was never shown.

If he was burnt to nothing by the sun, then Jean Grey would have been burnt to nothing by the sun too. Which means that she would have died -- in the next issue she dies by EMP, which means it's clearly possible for her to die by normal means even as the Phoenix -- which means that no one would have saved them. So obviously he wasn't burnt to nothing.

Assumption and logic, both with a high fallacy rate in comics. As to Phoenix being able to be killed by normal means, yes and no. Back in prime form she was consuming stars, a situation that equals 'normal' death. I'm gonna go with what I saw and that was him regrowing eyeballs and skin.

It wasn't seen, so I don't buy that it wasn't the case since there's no canon or spoken word from Morrison or any other writer from that matter to the contrary or to support.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

People have to learn power ups are generally an escape or cop out from good story telling.

What should we do with Wolverine, "uh...let's give him an unexplained power up...that'll make people interested".

Maybe this works as a short term strategy, but it is a bad long term one. Look at Whedon, who could make Cyclops, Wolverine AND Shadowcat interesting again without making any ridiculous or unexplained changes.

As I recollect you seem to have an interesting view of things that are 'okay' and 'interesting' when it comes to Wolverine, a character that you obviously don't have anything against.

As to what past writers have been able to do without powering him up, something you think of as a cop out do you justify DD and the Hand beating Wolverine as 'interesting' writing under an artist?

 

[BrianWilly]

Assumption and logic, both with a high fallacy rate in comics. As to Phoenix being able to be killed by normal means, yes and no. Back in prime form she was consuming stars, a situation that equals 'normal' death. I'm gonna go with what I saw and that was him regrowing eyeballs and skin.

It wasn't seen, so I don't buy that it wasn't the case since there's no canon or spoken word from Morrison or any other writer from that matter to the contrary or to support.

So...your logic is that it wasn't shown and the original writer didn't comment on it...so it must have happened?

No one's disputing that Logan is able to regenerate eyeballs and skin at all; that's hardly this controversy is about. What people are talking about is his ability to now regenerate from a single cell or from a fleshless skeleton. Morrison never showed that. The closest he ever got is when Cassandra Nova stripped the flesh off his arm, which not only is not nearly the same thing, but he also very specifically said that it maxed out his healing factor and he needed to meditate to put his body back in shape. Hardly the sort of godly, limitless regeneration that Guggenheim is referencing.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

No I'm saying that since it wasn't shown and the writer didn't comment on it that's impossible to say one way or the other, aside for personal inference.

 

[Red Mask]

Well in #48, it appears violent deaths instigate an extreme overdrive of his power. But as for his soul's return, that's still undisclosed.

 

[Varient]

interesting how far this has gone,..
Can we all agree that guidelines with explanations would drop half the issues involved?

 

[Red Mask]

No. I still think they've exaggerated the strength of his power.

 

[Not Jake]

Pffsh Daredevil beating Wolverine is totally justified and awesome

What are claws to DD? He probably views them as just another japanese weapon, he's fought Hand guys with claw weapons before. DD is familiar with any of Wolvie's fighting styles and then there's the whole being able to dodge most of what gets thrown at him. DD knows about Wolvie's healing factor but does Wolvie know about DD's radar?

Not to mention that when he's not being written like a greek god, Wolverine shouldn't be that much stronger than DD physically. A little, sure.

Then there's the FACT that DD is better fighter than Logan. Face it, with his radar on top of his training, he's a crazy-accurate pressure point-nailing machine. Maybe after living a hundred more years Logan can reach DD's fighting ability, but as it stands, I'll put my money with the guy Stick trained.


Man I should post in versus threads more often, I'm good at it

 

[Fading]

Pffsh Daredevil beating Wolverine is totally justified and awesome

What are claws to DD? He probably views them as just another japanese weapon, he's fought Hand guys with claw weapons before. DD is familiar with any of Wolvie's fighting styles and then there's the whole being able to dodge most of what gets thrown at him. DD knows about Wolvie's healing factor but does Wolvie know about DD's radar?

Not to mention that when he's not being written like a greek god, Wolverine shouldn't be that much stronger than DD physically. A little, sure.

Then there's the FACT that DD is better fighter than Logan. Face it, with his radar on top of his training, he's a crazy-accurate pressure point-nailing machine. Maybe after living a hundred more years Logan can reach DD's fighting ability, but as it stands, I'll put my money with the guy Stick trained.


Man I should post in versus threads more often, I'm good at it

Honestly I wouldn't since we have tons of others going atm lol and it'll prob turn into a 40 page denial fest like the Hulk one on both sides, and not to derail but I disagree. DD wore himself out hitting on Kingpin in their first fight, he couldn't damage him and instead hurt himself in the process and Kingpin one hit KO'd him. I don't see how kicking adamantium with full force wouldn't hurt him more than hitting Kingpin (I know he's muscle and not fat). Not to count Wolverine's trained in every MA like Batman even if it doesn't show in comics more recently, count in his healing factor, and him being a metahuman in everything from agility to strength (900 pounds to caps' 800), and his heightened senses and he SHOULD be too much for DD IMO. Just as Spiderman should be too much for DD too. DD's beaten both tho, and while I like DD I don't think he should be knocking out guys who go toe to toe with Hulk, and I don't think he should be able to defeat Ultron which he's done also. Not a bash on DD, just my opinion.