halloween costumes removed due to offending the mentally ill

[Jack O Lantern]

I wish we as a nation would become more hypersensitive about things that really deserve hypersensitivity like having the decency to protest excessively aggressive bullying.

These costumes mock an entire [and vulenerable] section of society for being different. How is that not a form of bullying?

 

[zeroapoc]

I actually agree with this and don't consider it a case of hypersensitivity. Would you guys find "Cancer Patient" costumes ok?

 

[Teelie]

it's bad form to rant and then say you're dropping it. that's like me just flat out saying that i get the last word.

Only if there's anything productive to be gained from a continued discussion in here. There is nothing left if there ever was so this isn't bad form, it's bowing out of an unending argument that will go on until someone says enough.

And by making that comment, while failing to even respond to a single point in that rant you had an issue with, you show further evidence you just want to keep this going by trying to make a provocative response and showing how you won by daring me to make this post so I'm making an exception to give you exactly what you wanted. Don't expect another though.

I still say it's being hypersensitive and overreacting, and no one has shown a good reason to convincingly show otherwise.

For me, it's enough. I have nothing more to contribute but if that's bad form, so be it. There will not be a shift of opinions on this. You can keep arguing yourself blue in the face with whoever else wants to keep going but it isn't going to be me.

Go on and have the last word though, when every response will only be deeper entrenchment you can be sure of yourself in being right, just as those you argue with do the same.

But hey, whatever works for you.

 

[Steyin]

So if the costumes were named differently, say as Hannibal Lecter and horror film maniac, would this have caused a stir?

After having costumes like these around for years on end, now is the time for someone to finally speak up?

I get being offended by this or anything similar if you fall into a group that's being stereotyped as something you aren't, but really, I honestly find it an overreaction. It's nothing more than a company trying to make a few bucks based on said stereotype at the end of the day, and they used the labels they did because society recognizes it from film/tv/etc stereotypes, and they can't afford to name them what they might really reflect due to copyright issues and such.

The problem is society is influenced to recognize these images as stereotypes rather than as gross over exaggerations. Continually putting out products like these doesn't help make the situation better, but not doing so isn't really going to solve what has been put into peoples heads after such a long time either.

I'm smart enough to understand that not all mentally ill people are bad, or murdering psychopaths, etc, but if these groups want to really be heard they'd have to speak up against the entertainment industry and whomever else also as to not be portrayed in a negative light, which just won't happen. In the end though, I find it impossible to go around trying not to offend everyone and anything all the time.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

So I have coulrophobia, so I am different and a minority. Please ban all the clowns.

These costumes mock an entire [and vulenerable] section of society for being different. How is that not a form of bullying?

Yes. Halloween costumes were created to offend some people, how can society not see this?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I get that. I still find it odd that people choose to use their own negatives to define themselves. (I frankly find it odd how people tend to define themselves in general, but that's another discussion.)

I also think that goes into the stigma against mental illnesses. If you break your leg or contract the flu, something is wrong with your body. If you have a mental illness, something is wrong with you.

There's a real problem with this attitude.

If a mental illness makes you a cruel or miserable person then there is something "wrong" with you.

But if a mentally ill person is nice, thoughtful, and happy is there something really "wrong" with them?

Mental illnesses can make people weird, but it doesn't automatically make them bad or "wrong".

I'm glad I'm schizophrenic. I don't want to have the same mass produced life experience and identity everyone else has. Schizophrenia, autism, and bi-polar conditions can be a handicap one day and mutant superpower on another. It's all a matter of perspective.

 

[SuperFerret]

You are not supposed to be schizophrenic. It is an illness. It is something wrong. Just like a cold or a broken leg is something wrong.

 

[MangleBoP]

The other day, St. Petersburg police fatally shot a man with history of mental illness, who was swinging an ax at people in a park about 3 blocks from where I'm typing this. Serial killers exist, they are scary, and while I myself have some mental health issues, I find nothing offensive about basing scary stories around the concept of madness. Fear of mental illness, or the ill themselves, is often the backbone of comic book villains, horror movies, and haunted houses at Halloween events. This fear is natural, and while stigmatizing ALL mental patients as violent is incorrect, the ones they put in straitjackets are the ones who ARE violent, a threat to themselves or others, so what's wrong with using that imagery to frighten people? If the Joker where real, you would be afraid of him, right? Scary costumes reflect the fears of a people, the nightmares that plague them, the terrors that keep them up at night. While it would be in poor taste to make a Taliban costume, the fact is, that is something people are afraid of, and with good reason. People SHOULD be afraid if the see someone in an orange jumpsuit coming towards them, or their children. The people who are required to wear such things ARE dangerous. So why be offended by a costume that is MEANT to be scary, when it's based on something or someone who IS scary?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You are not supposed to be schizophrenic. It is an illness. It is something wrong. Just like a cold or a broken leg is something wrong.

That's a very basic and narrow way at looking at things.

A cold or broken leg doesn't effect how you view the world.

Phillip K Dick was schizophrenic. Many find his science fiction to be prophetic in some ways.

So no, it's not like a cold or broken leg.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The other day, St. Petersburg police fatally shot a man with history of mental illness, who was swinging an ax at people in a park about 3 blocks from where I'm typing this. Serial killers exist, they are scary, and while I myself have some mental health issues, I find nothing offensive about basing scary stories around the concept of madness. Fear of mental illness, or the ill themselves, is often the backbone of comic book villains, horror movies, and haunted houses at Halloween events. This fear is natural, and while stigmatizing ALL mental patients as violent is incorrect, the ones they put in straitjackets are the ones who ARE violent, a threat to themselves or others, so what's wrong with using that imagery to frighten people? If the Joker where real, you would be afraid of him, right? Scary costumes reflect the fears of a people, the nightmares that plague them, the terrors that keep them up at night. While it would be in poor taste to make a Taliban costume, the fact is, that is something people are afraid of, and with good reason. People SHOULD be afraid if the see someone in an orange jumpsuit coming towards them, or their children. The people who are required to wear such things ARE dangerous. So why be offended by a costume that is MEANT to be scary, when it's based on something or someone who IS scary?

But not all mentally ill people are dangerous. In fact, a small percentage of us are even violent.

We are already treated less equally based on unfair stereotypes so what's wrong with an attempt to combat those unfair stereotypes?

What's worse? A couple less Halloween costume or an entire population of non-violent people being treated like monsters.

 

[The Question]

You are not supposed to be schizophrenic. It is an illness. It is something wrong. Just like a cold or a broken leg is something wrong.

Yeah, but we're talking about "they're something wrong with you" said to mean "there's something fundamentally wrong about who you are," not "you're body doesn't work quite right and that sucks."

 

[MangleBoP]

But not all mentally ill people are dangerous. In fact, a small percentage of us are even violent.

We are already treated less equally based on unfair stereotypes so what's wrong with an attempt to combat those unfair stereotypes?

What's worse? A couple less Halloween costume or an entire population of non-violent people being treated like monsters.

My point is, the costumes are based on the ones who ARE violent and dangerous. Those are people you SHOULD be afraid of, so it's ok to wear a costume based on them.

 

[The Question]

My point is, the costumes are based on the ones who ARE violent and dangerous. Those are people you SHOULD be afraid of, so it's ok to wear a costume based on them.

So it's okay to perpetuate negative stereotypes because those stereotypical portrayals only represent those individuals who are actually examples of those stereotypes? Does his rule apply to all groups of people?

Also the font thing is getting a little annoying, I've got to be honest.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

I actually agree with this and don't consider it a case of hypersensitivity. Would you guys find "Cancer Patient" costumes ok?

So, no Walter White this year?

 

[SuperFerret]

That's a very basic and narrow way at looking at things.

A cold or broken leg doesn't effect how you view the world.

Phillip K Dick was schizophrenic. Many find his science fiction to be prophetic in some ways.

So no, it's not like a cold or broken leg.

Are you not getting treatment for schizophrenia then? You don't fix what's not broken.

Yeah, but we're talking about "they're something wrong with you" said to mean "there's something fundamentally wrong about who you are," not "you're body doesn't work quite right and that sucks."

But that's the thing, there is something fundamentally wrong. That's where the stigma seems to come from (at least as far as I can see). How do you fix what's wrong if you're what's wrong? Something like depression is terrible to deal with, but if you're treating it, is the person you become really you? There are a lot of similarly sticky questions there, which makes people uneasy.

 

[The Question]

But that's the thing, there is something fundamentally wrong.

Nope. Person's just sick. Nothing fundamentally wrong with someone who suffers from a mental illness any more than there is with someone with a n injured leg. It limits your ability to do certain things and gives you very unpleasant sensations, but it doesn't make you a bad person.

That's where the stigma seems to come from (at least as far as I can see). How do you fix what's wrong if you're what's wrong?

Same way you fix a broken bone or some kind of virus, by using the treatment methods available to fix it.

Something like depression is terrible to deal with, but if you're treating it, is the person you become really you?

Yes.

There are a lot of similarly sticky questions there, which makes people uneasy.

They're not the people who are sick, so they should probably nut up and get over it.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Are you not getting treatment for schizophrenia then? You don't fix what's not broken.

I view medication the way an explorer would view a home.

It's a stable and safe ”place” but I've learned far more about who I am and what's important to me from my exotic travels and adventures (insanity).

But that's the thing, there is something fundamentally wrong. That's where the stigma seems to come from (at least as far as I can see). How do you fix what's wrong if you're what's wrong? Something like depression is terrible to deal with, but if you're treating it, is the person you become really you? There are a lot of similarly sticky questions there, which makes people uneasy.

I think the stigma becomes offensive because it assumes the worst and doesn't give a full view of a person.

It's the same way racism and homophobia assumes the worst about a black or gay person without looking at how those differences can make a person more interesting and experienced in ways.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I was gonna stay out of this, but I got pulled in.

There's a real problem with this attitude.

If a mental illness makes you a cruel or miserable person then there is something "wrong" with you.

But if a mentally ill person is nice, thoughtful, and happy is there something really "wrong" with them?

Mental illnesses can make people weird, but it doesn't automatically make them bad or "wrong".

I'm glad I'm schizophrenic. I don't want to have the same mass produced life experience and identity everyone else has. Schizophrenia, autism, and bi-polar conditions can be a handicap one day and mutant superpower on another. It's all a matter of perspective.

Sooo... functioning as nature intended is "mass produced"?

Way to go all hipster with your mental illness.

But not all mentally ill people are dangerous. In fact, a small percentage of us are even violent.

We are already treated less equally based on unfair stereotypes so what's wrong with an attempt to combat those unfair stereotypes?

What's worse? A couple less Halloween costume or an entire population of non-violent people being treated like monsters.

Are you really saying that a Halloween costume is treating "an entire population of non-violent people" like "monsters"???

So it's okay to perpetuate negative stereotypes because those stereotypical portrayals only represent those individuals who are actually examples of those stereotypes? Does his rule apply to all groups of people?

Also the font thing is getting a little annoying, I've got to be honest.

But a Psycho Ward serial killer Halloween costume isn't exactly stereotyping autistic and other non-dangerous mentally ill people, now, is it?

Nope. Person's just sick. Nothing fundamentally wrong with someone who suffers from a mental illness any more than there is with someone with a n injured leg. It limits your ability to do certain things and gives you very unpleasant sensations, but it doesn't make you a bad person.

You're arguing a completely different definition of "wrong".

If someone's leg is broken, then yes, something is "wrong" with their leg.

If someone is mentally ill, then yes, something is "wrong" with their mind.

Who they are isn't "wrong" on a morality bad / good level, but it is "wrong" on a "this isn't how it's intended to work" functional level.

 

[The Question]

But a Psycho Ward serial killer Halloween costume isn't exactly stereotyping autistic and other non-dangerous mentally ill people, now, is it?

Autistic? Maybe not. But non-dangerous mentally ill people (read: the vast majority of them)? That's what people assume of them. That's the stigma they have to live with. You tell someone you suffer from schizophrenia, nine times out of ten they assume you're an axe murder waiting to happen when in reality you suffer from mild hallucinations that you're aware are hallucinations and fairly unpleasant but ultimately harmless mood swings.

That's what stereotypes are. That's how they work. Stereotypes about a group don't usually apply to most members of that group, but those people still have to deal with people from outside the group assuming that about them.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I was gonna stay out of this, but I got pulled in.



Sooo... functioning as nature intended is "mass produced"?

Way to go all hipster with your mental illness.

Way to go mainstream with your normalcy.

Are you really saying that a Halloween costume is treating "an entire population of non-violent people" like "monsters"???

Kind of.

I'm saying combating stigmas by canceling costumes and other ways is better than simply allowing these stigmas to continue.

But a Psycho Ward serial killer Halloween costume isn't exactly stereotyping autistic and other non-dangerous mentally ill people, now, is it?

Insenitive people don't ask autistic people for a diagnosis. If they're acting strange they get put under the psycho ward crazy label like the rest of us.

You're arguing a completely different definition of "wrong".

If someone's leg is broken, then yes, something is "wrong" with their leg.

If someone is mentally ill, then yes, something is "wrong" with their mind.

Who they are isn't "wrong" on a morality bad / good level, but it is "wrong" on a "this isn't how it's intended to work" functional level.

How the mind should work is not a purely odjective and physical argument. It's a value and moral argument also that looks at what's the point of human existence. We can't assume the purpose of the human mind is only predictable forms of success.

 

[E-Man]

Ughhhh a nation of babies

[YT]sn6jKGVxTbk[/YT]

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Way to go mainstream with your normalcy.

It's not mainstream.

I am a completely, normally functioning adult human being. Nature isn't a popularity contest.

Kind of.

I'm saying combating stigmas by canceling costumes and other ways is better than simply allowing these stigmas to continue.

And this I would call hypersensitivity.

Because "cancelling" a Halloween costume because someone somewhere might be offended is the very definition of dangerous slippery slope behavior. Where does it stop?

Insenitive people don't ask autistic people for a diagnosis. If they're acting strange they get put under the psycho ward crazy label like the rest of us.

Insensitive people are going to be insensitive people regardless of a Halloween costume. But we still have a freedom of expression in this country, and quite frankly, people don't have the right to NOT be offended.

How the mind should work is not a purely odjective and physical argument. It's a value and moral argument also that looks at what's the point of human existence. We can't assume the purpose of the human mind is only predictable forms of success.

It kind of is tho. The mind is supposed to function in a certain way, and when it doesn't function in that certain way, it is not functioning properly.

That doesn't make the person "bad" in some definition of morality, but it does mean that something is "wrong" with their mind.

 

[chaseter]

So you're saying that people who suffer from mental illness are bad people?

Yes that is exactly what I said. But...that made me realize something...give this costume a gun or a knife and you are most homicidal serial and mass murderers throughout history.

 

[chaseter]

and where would you draw the line? what groups do you find unimportant enough to offend?

The freely obese.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It's not mainstream.

I am a completely, normally functioning adult human being. Nature isn't a popularity contest.



And this I would call hypersensitivity.

Because "cancelling" a Halloween costume because someone somewhere might be offended is the very definition of dangerous slippery slope behavior. Where does it stop?



Insensitive people are going to be insensitive people regardless of a Halloween costume. But we still have a freedom of expression in this country, and quite frankly, people don't have the right to NOT be offended.



It kind of is tho. The mind is supposed to function in a certain way, and when it doesn't function in that certain way, it is not functioning properly.

That doesn't make the person "bad" in some definition of morality, but it does mean that something is "wrong" with their mind.

You can say mental illness is abnormal but saying it is wrong sounds like a value-based judgement. The truth is a mental illness can give unique insight and perspective regardless of abnormalities. It can also give people powerful experiences they would otherwise be clueless about. Saying it's ONLY a problem or ONLY a curse is narrow tunnel vision.

Sometimes mentall illness is a curse and other times it is a malformed gift.

You can pity Temple Grandin, Van Gogh, Phillip K. Dick, and Jackson Pollock but their mental abnormalities enabled them to do things a healthy mind couldn't imagine.

BTW - It's ironic I have to argue these points to someone witha Magneto avatar. Maybe a Bolivar Trask avvy would suit you better?