Harry Potter & The Deathly Hallows - Part 2

[Iceman]

Yep, torturing a 11 year old kid shows just how good of a man Snape is.

But would he have done this if James had left him alone? It's not excusable by any means on Snape's part, but it illustrates that doing bad things when going through a phase can have permanent repercussions even when you turn good afterward for the rest of your life. Some lines should never be crossed even when you are at your lowest ebb, especially for a role model type character.

 

[Iceman]

Well like many people said above James grew up with a good life, he was pampered so it made him pretty arrogant when he got to school. It was reinforced when he was so well liked and had great Quidditch skills. Also the Snape and James rivalry was not one sided. They would both take turns to hex each other. So it wasn't like James constantly picked on Snape while he just sat there and took it. I believe Snape's ultimate grudge was marrying the girl he loved, could never get over that since he never stopped loving Lily.

OK that helps clear things up a bit, thanks.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I personally loved that scene. And I disagree that his protection of Harry was based on completely selfish reasons. I do think Snape cared for Harry in a way, but he was a very tormented man.

Just imagine the emotions that run through him, he sees Harry, the spitting image of the person you loathe most in the world, yet he has the eyes of the woman you loved. He strikes out at Harry because he still has that deepest hatred of James, yet he probably knows deep down that Harry's nature is more like his mother's then his fathers, something which probably makes it harder for Snape to be around Harry. On top of it, when he is a jerk to Harry probably feels guilt for being cruel to Lilly Potter's son, but then he'll get angry at himself for feeling guilty about being hard on a child, because his entire childhood was littered with abuse as well, so him feeling sorry is a sign of weakness. And then the circle continues.

By the end of the book, Snape is shown to be someone who's devoted to protecting Harry, and he's appalled that Dumbledore has apparently raised him like a pig for slaughter. Not only that, but Snape has evolved into a person who does his best to protect others. He attempted to protect Lupin at the beginning of DH, someone he had no fond feelings for, he did his best to keep the children of Hogwarts protected.

And really, it all comes down to the line I posted earlier.

"Don't be shocked Severus, how many men and women have you seen die?"
"Lately, only those whom I could not save."

Snape started out as a very selfish man, and he retained elements of that. But by his death, he had many very noble qualities.

At some point Snape needed to be an adult. He didn't need to like Harry, but he certainly didn't need to go out of his way to torture the boy. All this talk of emotions. Snape was grown ass man who obviously got joy out of making Harry's life as uncomfortable as possible. Harry at 11 years old was more thoughtful then him.

I also like how people seem to forget he was a Deatheater and thus more then likely, a murderer.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I wonder how many people would like Snape if he wasn't played by Alan Rickman.

 

[Liam_H]

Just imagine the emotions that run through him, he sees Harry, the spitting image of the person you loathe most in the world, yet he has the eyes of the woman you loved. He strikes out at Harry because he still has that deepest hatred of James, yet he probably knows deep down that Harry's nature is more like his mother's then his fathers, something which probably makes it harder for Snape to be around Harry. On top of it, when he is a jerk to Harry probably feels guilt for being cruel to Lilly Potter's son, but then he'll get angry at himself for feeling guilty about being hard on a child, because his entire childhood was littered with abuse as well, so him feeling sorry is a sign of weakness. And then the circle continues.

Well Snape probably wished the personality of Harry was more like Lily but he probably grew more animosity towards him when he acted like James. He did break a lot school rules, always in favor of stopping evil, but Snape just saw this as being arrogant just like James. So the bad treatment of Harry just continued.

The fact that Snape can still divide how the fan base thinks of him is great because like many characters in the series, everyone has faults; no one was perfect. Not even Dumbledore.

 

[danoyse]

I personally loved that scene. And I disagree that his protection of Harry was based on completely selfish reasons. I do think Snape cared for Harry in a way, but he was a very tormented man.

Just imagine the emotions that run through him, he sees Harry, the spitting image of the person you loathe most in the world, yet he has the eyes of the woman you loved. He strikes out at Harry because he still has that deepest hatred of James, yet he probably knows deep down that Harry's nature is more like his mother's then his fathers, something which probably makes it harder for Snape to be around Harry. On top of it, when he is a jerk to Harry probably feels guilt for being cruel to Lilly Potter's son, but then he'll get angry at himself for feeling guilty about being hard on a child, because his entire childhood was littered with abuse as well, so him feeling sorry is a sign of weakness. And then the circle continues.

By the end of the book, Snape is shown to be someone who's devoted to protecting Harry, and he's appalled that Dumbledore has apparently raised him like a pig for slaughter. Not only that, but Snape has evolved into a person who does his best to protect others. He attempted to protect Lupin at the beginning of DH, someone he had no fond feelings for, he did his best to keep the children of Hogwarts protected.

And really, it all comes down to the line I posted earlier.

"Don't be shocked Severus, how many men and women have you seen die?"
"Lately, only those whom I could not save."

Snape started out as a very selfish man, and he retained elements of that. But by his death, he had many very noble qualities.

Not to mention the anger he felt at himself for being the one who got Lily killed in the first place. She was right, she'd warned him back when they were students, and he didn't listen. I don't think he ever forgave himself for that, and he took a lot of that anger out on Harry (unjustly so).

 

[Iceman]

I wonder how many people would like Snape if he wasn't played by Alan Rickman.

I guess I like him more as a character than a person. If he wasn't played so well (whoever by) it would change things yes.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

But would he have done this if James had left him alone? It's not excusable by any means on Snape's part, but it illustrates that doing bad things when going through a phase can have permanent repercussions even when you turn good afterward for the rest of your life. Some lines should never be crossed even when you are at your lowest ebb, especially for a role model type character.

Yeah, on the weak minded bad people. Harry went through far worse as a child and never lost his way.

Snape had a sick little obsession for Harry's mom. That is his one honorable trait and even that is gross.

 

[Infinity9999x]

At some point Snape needed to be an adult. He didn't need to like Harry, but he certainly didn't need to go out of his way to torture the boy. All this talk of emotions. Snape was grown ass man who obviously got joy out of making Harry's life as uncomfortable as possible. Harry at 11 years old was more thoughtful then him.

I also like how people seem to forget he was a Deatheater and thus more then likely, a murderer.

Oh, I never said he was a necessarily good man. He did bad things. And he most certainly killed people. But on the same token, you seem to be ignoring that he definitely saved lives as well.

Yes, he was a grown man who was cruel to a child, and that's pathetic. But he's also a man who put aside his life to protect the same child, and did all he could to protect the children of Hogwarts while he was there. He's a person who's simultaneously a slimy, immature git, and a selfless noble man. He's wonderfully complicated in that way.

 

[Liam_H]

I wonder how many people would like Snape if he wasn't played by Alan Rickman.

I believe Tim Roth was actually up for the part before it went to Rickman. But I'm glad it turned out this way. Rickman always seemed older than how I pictured Snape but the personality is so spot on that it doesn't matter. Also it would have been great to see the goatee but oh wells.

Did anyone else have laughter in the theater when Rickman was pausing after every word he spoke when he was addressing the students? Hes always done this but it just seemed emphasized this time since it went on so long. Everybody was getting a kick out of it, I loved it also.

"If...any...one....has...know...ledge......"

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I wonder how many people would like Snape if he wasn't played by Alan Rickman.

Yep. I love Alan Rickman in these films, but his portrayal has warped the perception of the jerk.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Yeah, on the weak minded bad people. Harry went through far worse as a child and never lost his way.

Snape had a sick little obsession for Harry's mom. That is his one honorable trait and even that is gross.

Also, where's this talk of a "sick obsession" coming from? Snape and Lilly had a friendship, it wasn't like Snape was the weird kid who stared at her through her bedroom window who she never talked to. They were friends, JKR even said that had Snape made some different choices she could have seen Lilly ending up with him.

And I think it's important to keep in mind that Snape may very well have had a WORSE childhood then Harry. It's indicated that not only was Snape's biological father every bit as emotionally abusive as the Dersleys were to Harry, but possibly physically as well.

 

[Marvolo]

Yep, torturing a 11 year old kid shows just how good of a man Snape is.

If you think what Snape does is torture you would have had a nervous break down with my third grade teacher. That woman was evil incarnate.

 

[Thundercrack85]

If Snape looked like Wormtail, people would dismiss him as a creepy stalker and a jerk.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh, I never said he was a necessarily good man. He did bad things. And he most certainly killed people. But on the same token, you seem to be ignoring that he definitely saved lives as well.

Yes, he was a grown man who was cruel to a child, and that's pathetic. But he's also a man who put aside his life to protect the same child, and did all he could to protect the children of Hogwarts while he was there. He's a person who's simultaneously a slimy, immature git, and a selfless noble man. He's wonderfully complicated in that way.

One who repents for the most evil of deeds, still did those evil things.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If you think what Snape does is torture you would have had a nervous break down with my third grade teacher. That woman was evil incarnate.

Did you miss the 5th book?

 

[Infinity9999x]

One who repentant for the most evil of deeds, still did those evil things.

And I've never said he didn't. But I don't believe he should only be remembered for the bad he did, nor do I think he should only be remembered for the good he did. He's a complicated man...like real people are. People aren't just black and white. And that's why Snape's such a good character. He was capable of great nobility and great cruelty. It's why he's one of my favorite fictional characters ever.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Also, where's this talk of a "sick obsession" coming from? Snape and Lilly had a friendship, it wasn't like Snape was the weird kid who stared at her through her bedroom window who she never talked to. They were friends, JKR even said that had Snape made some different choices she could have seen Lilly ending up with him.

And I think it's important to keep in mind that Snape may very well have had a WORSE childhood then Harry. It's indicated that not only was Snape's biological father every bit as emotionally abusive as the Dersleys were to Harry, but possibly physically as well.

Snape had to grow up with a homicidal maniac trying to kill him? One who killed his parents?

And please, lusting after another man's wife, sick and obsessive.

 

[Iceman]

If Snape looked like Wormtail, people would dismiss him as a creepy stalker and a jerk.

If Harry Potter looked like Wormtail....t:

Snape IS a creepy stalker & a jerk. He just has a positive side to him as well. Unlike Wormtail!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And I've never said he didn't. But I don't believe he should only be remembered for the bad he did, nor do I think he should only be remembered for the good he did. He's a complicated man...like real people are. People aren't just black and white. And that's why Snape's such a good character. He was capable of great nobility and great cruelty. It's why he's one of my favorite fictional characters ever.

There is a big difference between black, white and murderer who likes to make little boys cry because they look too much like the guy who teased them in school.

 

[Marvolo]

Did you miss the 5th book?

Umbridge could have been inspired by this woman. She wouldn't have us writing in our own blood but she was far more psychologically abusive.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Snape had to grow up with a homicidal maniac trying to kill him? One who killed his parents?

And please, lusting after another man's wife, sick and obsessive.

If you go by the timeline, Harry's parents were only married for about three years. For most of the time Snape lusted after Lilly, she was not with James. And they were FRIENDS. They didn't stop being friends until her fifth year. You make it sound like he was some sort of crazy stalker, but it's not like they didn't have a relationship of their own. As I've said, JKR even said that had things worked out a little different for Snape, she could have seen him and Lilly ending up together. So obviously Lilly had affection for Snape as well. You can't ignore that fact.

And I'm talking about Snape's home life. Yes, Harry had Voldermort after him, and that is indeed horrible. But you can't discount the fact that if you grow up in an abusive family it can seriously screw you up. I'm not saying it justifies Snape's adult behavior, it doesn't. But it at least makes things a little clearer when you realize this.

Again, I'm not saying Snape is a completely noble and selfless hero. He was capable of great cruelty. I fully acknowledge that, but you seem to want to ignore all the good he did as well, which would be just as preposterous as me only looking at the character for the good he did and ignoring the bad.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, on the weak minded bad people. Harry went through far worse as a child and never lost his way.

Snape had a sick little obsession for Harry's mom. That is his one honorable trait and even that is gross.

I'm not going to defend Snape. Just was disappointed by James Potter but some of that's been cleared up since. Lily was portrayed like a saint in comparison. I would have liked them to show James Potter's goodness a little more.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Umbridge could have been inspired by this woman. She wouldn't have us writing in our own blood but she was far more psychologically abusive.

She ever try to kill you?

I was a lucky kid. I had one rather strict teacher in 4th grade, but she loved me so it was all good.

 

[Fanticon]

Did you miss the 5th book?

i've read the 5th book and have no idea what you're talking about.