Harry Potter & The Deathly Hallows - Part 2

[DarthSkywalker]

Another point to reinforce this is that Draco changed, he was always raised to be like his father...but deep down he never believed in that path. He's still a prick that probably believes he's better than everyone else but he's not gonna mass murder as Voldemort would do. A dog that's all bark and no bite.

Draco wasn't capable of it, and that is kind of the point. Draco doesn't change. He was never capable of murder. Why he sucked so bad at it.

Is there any proof that Snape did anything other Death Eaters did? I don't think he ever tortured anybody, and there's sufficient proof that he's never killed, besides Dumbledore.

I am sure he became so close to Voldemort by pushing papers all day. t:

 

[Infinity9999x]

Jesse Custer, Gunther, Salvation.

I know these are character, and romanticizing them is probably much, if not the entire point. But people don't just change. What one has done, they have always done. What they are capable of, they are always capable of. That we see different aspect of character, doesn't mean they changed, just that there is more then one aspect to them.

Even if we go by your line of thinking, Snape grows to care for Harry. If that is so, he is showing nothing new then what we already knew about him. That he is capable of acts to protect those he cares for. That doesn't change his intentions or the man he is. He also the same man who committed horrific acts and will always be.

It is not unlike why Vader, after showing the qualities of a good man, had to die in the end.

And I've never said that he didn't do the things he did. However, what I disagree with is the idea that he's still a bad man. I believe someone can become a better person, and I believe Snape did. I've never said that this means he didn't do bad things. But I do believe that he turned into a man later in life who regretted those actions, and a man who would no longer commit those kinds of actions.

Again, it is important to note that we don't actually KNOW what Snape did as a Death Eater as well.

But going by your logic, then Dumbledore's intentions were never noble either, because Dumbledore started off with the intention to gain power and rule over muggles. And even though he later changed his stance, his original intentions started out poorly, so his intentions will always be poor.

THAT is where I disagree with you. Just because someone starts with selfish or poor intentions, it does not meant that those intentions can evolve into noble ones.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And I've never said that he didn't do the things he did. However, what I disagree with is the idea that he's still a bad man. I believe someone can become a better person, and I believe Snape did. I've never said that this means he didn't do bad things. But I do believe that he turned into a man later in life who regretted those actions, and a man who would no longer commit those kinds of actions.

Again, it is important to note that we don't actually KNOW what Snape did as a Death Eater as well.

But going by your logic, then Dumbledore's intentions were never noble either, because Dumbledore started off with the intention to gain power and rule over muggles. And even though he later changed his stance, his original intentions started out poorly, so his intentions will always be poor.

THAT is where I disagree with you. Just because someone starts with selfish or poor intentions, it does not meant that those intentions can evolve into noble ones.

That is basically like saying, "well I was a part of the Nazi party, and I did serve during WW2, but I didn't really kill anyone. I just did the paper work. Now granted I was completely fine with wiping out an entire race, in fact I was for it, but lets now dwell on that". That is what death eaters were. Nazis. The only different is that there was no front. They all knew exactly why they were doing what they were doing.

You don't need to personally kill and torture others. Sitting back and supporting it is more then enough. Snape was a full and willing participate.

Do you notice something about Albus and Snape? They "change" because of close, personal tragedies? That isn't change, that is realizing your actions have consequences.

 

[xmangambit]

Snape loved Lily more than james that's easy and obvious, I felt his pain, in fact I understand it.

What I don't understand is the Patronus? SO Snape is Harry's dad yeah? Is that what they're trying to say?

Lastly what the hell with the Malfoys I don't understand what happened? Draco's Mum went up to Harry after he got Abracadabra'd next thing you know he's moving but she says he's dead? Is she blind?

Then you see them running away later on, and later still you see his kids, what they become friends and forget anything even happened? Just seems a bit loop holy and a quick ending.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Snape loved Lily more than james that's easy and obvious, I felt his pain, in fact I understand it.

What I don't understand is the Patronus? SO Snape is Harry's dad yeah? Is that what they're trying to say?

Lastly what the hell with the Malfoys I don't understand what happened? Draco's Mum went up to Harry after he got Abracadabra'd next thing you know he's moving but she says he's dead? Is she blind?

Then you see them running away later on, and later still you see his kids, what they become friends and forget anything even happened? Just seems a bit loop holy and a quick ending.

You must be joking?

If James laying down his life for Lily and Harry wasn't a good enough example for you, Harry should be. He is a testament to the love his parents shared.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

If Harry Potter makes it so Transformers does not make 400-Mil, I'm gonna be so happy. My favourite book-to-film franchise would have effectively disabled Bay's baby from being considered a blockbuster "success".

 

[Angel_Faerie]

Snape loved Lily more than james that's easy and obvious, I felt his pain, in fact I understand it.

What I don't understand is the Patronus? SO Snape is Harry's dad yeah? Is that what they're trying to say?

When a wizard or witch really loves another witch or wizard sometimes their patronus will change to either match or compliment theirs. Snape's patronus is a doe, like Lily's, even more than a decade after her death, which shows he still loves her after all that time (which is what Dumbedore meant when he asked "after all this time?" and Snape replied "Always") No, Snape is not Harry's father, but he could have been if he hadn't made a lot of mistakes.

Lastly what the hell with the Malfoys I don't understand what happened? Draco's Mum went up to Harry after he got Abracadabra'd next thing you know he's moving but she says he's dead? Is she blind?

She lied to Voldemort. Not exactly why she did, but she did.

Then you see them running away later on, and later still you see his kids, what they become friends and forget anything even happened? Just seems a bit loop holy and a quick ending.

No, they aren't friends. But they've come to an understanding.

Hope this helps.

 

[PWN3R]

Lastly what the hell with the Malfoys I don't understand what happened? Draco's Mum went up to Harry after he got Abracadabra'd next thing you know he's moving but she says he's dead? Is she blind?

Then you see them running away later on, and later still you see his kids, what they become friends and forget anything even happened? Just seems a bit loop holy and a quick ending.

The Malfoy's were tired of Voldemort and the Death Eaters; they just wanted out.

In that moment you are referring back to, she asks Harry: "Is he alive? Draco, is he alive?" And then Harry nods. Mommy Malfoy just wants her son safe.

As for him being in the epilogue, I think it was implied that Draco never wanted to cross over with Voldemort's side near the end. Despite the fact that it created the best hug ever. Draco in the films, since HBP, has been questioning his beliefs. Only he wasn't so brave and just retreated with his parents in shame.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Come on people, Snape could never be Harry's father. One, Lily loves James. Second, a Snape/Lily baby would not have resulted in Harry. Seriously.

 

[Drizzle]

What I don't understand is the Patronus? SO Snape is Harry's dad yeah? Is that what they're trying to say?

Not at all. Lily's Patronus was a doe, and since Snape loved her, his Patronus took that shape. James is Harry's dad.

Lastly what the hell with the Malfoys I don't understand what happened? Draco's Mum went up to Harry after he got Abracadabra'd next thing you know he's moving but she says he's dead? Is she blind?

In the book as well as the film, she went over to Harry and asked him quietly if Draco was alive. In the book, he whispered yes, so she told Voldemort he was dead so they could go back to the castle where she could find her son.

Then you see them running away later on, and later still you see his kids, what they become friends and forget anything even happened? Just seems a bit loop holy and a quick ending.

Harry and Draco aren't really friends, they're just no longer enemies. It is painfully obvious in the later books/films especially that Draco doesn't want to be a part of the war and his loyalty is to his family, not to Voldemort. His family didn't want to be a part of it anymore either.

 

[Thundercrack85]

It's not unusual for turncoats to get amnesty. But at the end of the day, they still committed their crimes.

Lucius Malfoy probably did his share of killing and torturing. He had no problem letting the Basilisk loose on kids.

 

[Liam_H]

If Harry Potter makes it so Transformers does not make 400-Mil, I'm gonna be so happy. My favourite book-to-film franchise would have effectively disabled Bay's baby from being considered a blockbuster "success".

Too late. TF3 is already a blockbuster having passed $300 million and most likely $1 Billion later on. Also I'm not defending the movie, it is still bad.

Come on people, Snape could never be Harry's father. One, Lily loves James. Second, a Snape/Lily baby would not have resulted in Harry. Seriously.

Lol, I don't think they literally meant it that way. Also even if Snape never went bad and Lily never fell for James; I don't think Lily ever saw Snape in that light. She held affection for him but mainly as a friend.

 

[xmangambit]

I see much appreciated! Thanks guys!

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Too late. TF3 is already a blockbuster having passed $300 million and most likely $1 Billion later on. Also I'm not defending the movie, it is still bad.

No it isn't. It cost $200 million to make, and to be considered a blockbuster success, it must make double it's budget in domestic sales.

 

[iskrew]

Went through some back reading and all I've been seeing are arguments about Snape so I just skimmed through it.

The movie was AWESOME. Definitely one of the best movies I've seen in a while! If I had to nitpick it would be wanting the film to be a a bit longer because there were certain scenes I wanted them to expound on. And I'd also prefer if Voldemort wasn't shattered to bits. But other than that, I have nothing but praises for the film! It didn't drag. There were hardly boring scenes, well basically because they finished all the boring scenes in the first half.

Scenes that moved me:
Harry's speech and McGonagall fighting Snape
McGonagall bringing the statues to life, and the protego maxima scene.
Voldie destroying the barrier and the fight right after
Snape's memory definitely. From the music to the scenes. I really did not expect them to do this part well.

Weird enough, the scenes I didn't love (I didn't hate either but just didn't appeal to me as much as the other scenes) were all the Harry vs. Voldemort. Like I knew their duel would be two wands against each other with red and green. Oh yeah and I didn't like all the Harry and Ginny scenes but hey, it's not their fault that I don't like Ginny.

 

[Liam_H]

No it isn't. It cost $200 million to make, and to be considered a blockbuster success, it must make double it's budget in domestic sales.

LOL, are you saying Pirates 4 isn't a success because it didn't make $500 million domestically (budget of $250). That mouse is laughing all the way to the bank with all the money its getting internationally.

Would HP6 not be a success because it only made 300 million domestic with a $250 million budget? Nope because WB is loving that $933 WW gross.

Trust me TF3 is a huge success, that probably finishes with domestic around $340 million.

 

[PWN3R]

As someone who has only read to up to Goblet of Fire, I have to ask:

The McGonagall v. Snape scene, was she aware of Snape's allegiance? She throws those spells his way, and Snape not only deflects them, but kills the sibling Death Eaters in the process. I honestly don't know if this was intentional on McGonagail's part.

 

[Liam_H]

As someone who has only read to up to Goblet of Fire, I have to ask:

The McGonagall v. Snape scene, was she aware of Snape's allegiance? She throws those spells his way, and Snape not only deflects them, but kills the sibling Death Eaters in the process. I honestly don't know if this was intentional on McGonagail's part.

Nope, no one was ever aware of Snape's true allegiance besides Dumbledore. At least from how I remember, been awhile since I've read these books.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

LOL, are you saying Pirates 4 isn't a success because it didn't make $500 million domestically (budget of $250). That mouse is laughing all the way to the bank with all the money its getting internationally.

Would HP6 not be a success because it only made 300 million domestic with a $250 million budget? Nope because WB is loving that $933 WW gross.

Trust me TF3 is a huge success, that probably finishes with domestic around $340 million.

A DOMESTIC BLOCKBUSTER SUCCESS has to make at least DOUBLE it's budget. If the international sales double, it is an International Blockbuster.

 

[Thundercrack85]

McGonagall is probably the most underdeveloped character in the franchise.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

McGonagall is probably the most underdeveloped character in the franchise.

Nah, that is James Potter and like half the Hogwarts staff.

 

[Liam_H]

A DOMESTIC BLOCKBUSTER SUCCESS has to make at least DOUBLE it's budget. If the international sales double, it is an International Blockbuster.

Well obviously if you only look at it from that point of view, if you only added that disclaimer in your original post. Still disagree with your argument since you exclude such an important factor. Its like saying we'll only count tickets bought by women instead of men cause that doesn't count.

 

[Sundancer]

because like many characters in the series, everyone has faults; no one was perfect. Not even Dumbledore.

What are Harry's faults?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Nah, that is James Potter and like half the Hogwarts staff.

At least we knew about James' family.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

What are Harry's faults?

his total lack of personality in the books?