Harvey Dent/Two-Face Thread

[Eddie Dean]

You don’t understand Matt Reeves then. He’s not going to write a whole story around something he doesn’t believe in. He’ll walk before he does that. Not everyone is a push over in that business.

Who says he doesn't believe in Joker as the main bad guy? If anything Reeves has shown that he's very adaptable to working within the studio. Having The Joker being a main villain in one of these is something I'm sure he was cognizant of signing on for a Batman series. Why tease The Joker if not? It's happening dude.

 

[shauner111]

Who says he doesn't believe in Joker as the main bad guy? If anything Reeves has shown that he's very adaptable to working within the studio. Having The Joker being a main villain in one of these is something I'm sure he was cognizant of signing on for a Batman series. Why tease The Joker if not? It's happening dude.

If he wants Joker as the main villain, it won’t be because there’s a studio mandate. He didn’t tease the Joker for that reason. It’s world building and to show that he exists, nothing more. Matt has said that he’s not very adaptable and that’s why most big projects don’t work out with him. He has to do it his way and if the studio wants to go along for that ride (not the other way around) then it’s a great thing. But if they want to do something that he doesn’t believe in, he always tells the studio politely that they should find somebody else.

 

[Eddie Dean]

You are being very naïve about how this works.

 

[shauner111]

No. You’re not understanding Reeves’ process or history.

 

[Boom]

The "world-building" explanation is all well and good, but I'm sure Reeves is smart enough to understand the implications that come with letting the Joker genie out of the bottle. You don't go out of your way to hype up a deleted scene with that character, then proceed to release that scene online after a weekslong viral campaign, unless you are planning something to come. And I doubt Reeves put all of his eggs in the Arkham series basket. Not with a character this significant to the mythos.

My gut? We're getting The Joker as a main antagonist in one of these films. Whether as a solo villain, or one of several villains. Either way, he's coming. The release of the deleted scene (and all the fanfare that went into it) removed all doubt in my mind.

 

[shauner111]

The "world-building" explanation is all well and good, but I'm sure Reeves is smart enough to understand the implications that come with letting the Joker genie out of the bottle. You don't go out of your way to hype up a deleted scene with that character, then proceed to release that scene online after a weekslong viral campaign, unless you are planning something to come. And I doubt Reeves put all of his eggs in the Arkham series basket. Not with a character this significant to the mythos.

My gut? We're getting The Joker as a main antagonist in one of these films. Whether as a solo villain, or one of several villains. Either way, he's coming. The release of the deleted scene (and all the fanfare that went into it) removed all doubt in my mind.

He’s obviously coming and will be used. Arkham series if it gets off the ground? Probably. Roles in the sequels? Probably. I just don’t think he HAS to be the main villain in one of the movies. And there’s no way Reeves will be forced to make an entire story around Batman and Joker if Matt only wants to use him in a minor role.

Could Joker be in a cameo or a couple of scenes in the sequel? Yeah safe bet. I don’t believe he’ll be in a Arkham show and then won’t show up at all in the next movie. I DO think he’ll be one of several villains by a third film but I don’t think Matt placed him in the first movie just because he’s setting him up to be the Ledger/Nicholson down the road. I don’t see WB asking him to either, not if the next one is a success and Joker 2 does its thing.

Also, I don’t think Matt cares about what the audience expects. If some ppl watch the deleted scene and cameo and assume it’s a set up for main villainy, then why should he change his plans just to please those people?

I expect more Joker. A few times actually. But he doesn’t need to hog up the screentime in any of these movies. Most of the greatest stories ever told that feature Joker, have him in a relatively small but effect role.

 

[Sawyer]

I’m betting on series-long Big Bad over just being the villain of the next film. That’s something that’s never really been done before with Joker (not that Nolan really had much choice where his Joker was concerned).

Gradually build him up over the course of the films/TV projects — a cameo, to a Penguin-sized role, to a more hefty supporting role — then, when Reeves and Pattinson are ready to wrap this thing up, Joker is the climax.

 

[Luke995]

Well, the deleted scene sets pretty well that Bats and pre-Joker already have a bond.
In the GCPD series we probably would have had explanations about what happened to them in the Year One.

Maybe the "no kill rules" of Bats came from his experience to him? Maybe he nearly killed him (the scars and the fu**ed-up look) and then he saved his life, and so he feels guilty for him?

Who knows. The point is that Bats is linked and attracted by him, he asks him help with no particular reason (and Joker answers him like he is his consciouness).

I mean, you don't set a relationship like that if you don't want to use him.

I bet that in Batman 2 he will be a sort of a Lecter figure (remember the Tomlin's spec-script...?), then he will be a manipulator mother**cker in Arkham series, and at the end he will be the climax villain in Batman 3, but not the only villain (I expect Two Face, Strange or similar... or both).

 

[AndyTrevino]

Well, the deleted scene sets pretty well that Bats and pre-Joker already have a bond.
In the GCPD series we probably would have had explanations about what happened to them in the Year One.

Maybe the "no kill rules" of Bats came from his experience to him? Maybe he nearly killed him (the scars and the fu**ed-up look) and then he saved his life, and so he feels guilty for him?

That's just part of the disease this Joker has.