The Dark Knight Harvey Dent/Two-Face Thread.

[Two-Face]

Please NO SPOILERS HERE

This is Thread for people who do NOT want spoilers. So post images, vidoes, manips and anything that has to do with Harvey Dent/Two-Face character

Courtesy of WB:

 

[Keyser Soze]

Good idea for a thread! t:

To resurrect the old debate: how should Harvey Dent be portrayed? Should he be an all-out good guy, who is turned into a monster by acid being thrown in his face? Or should it be implied that he is already a troubled, morally ambiguous character, and his disfigurement merely brings all this up to the surface?

 

[Citadel30]

I think it would be pretty cool if Harvey Dent is portrayed as a good guy, who after his scarring, gets fed up with the legal system and becomes a vigilante- although unlike Batman, he carries out the executions. His good side would be the fact that he is against criminals- the bad side would be that he becomes a criminal by murdering others. Batman becomes his enemy because Bats tries to prevent him from killing.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I think it would be pretty cool if Harvey Dent is portrayed as a good guy, who after his scarring, gets fed up with the legal system and becomes a vigilante- although unlike Batman, he carries out the executions. His good side would be the fact that he is against criminals- the bad side would be that he becomes a criminal by murdering others. Batman becomes his enemy because Bats tries to prevent him from killing.

Welcome to The Hype! t:

And good post. I find this portrayal of Two-Face to be more credible and powerful than him getting scarred, and suddenly deciding to rob the 2nd National Bank on the 2nd February at 2:22pm...

 

[Citadel30]

Thanks!!! I have been reading posts on the page for about 8 months - and I mean i have read just about EVERY post. This place is freaking hilarious.

Back on topic- I agree with you- Harvey getting scarred, after being a servant of the legal system, should not go straight into Psycho mode who wants to rob banks and cause mass destruction just for the heck of it. Nolan could easily show the audience how Harvey feels guilt about killing the criminals- but he feels that its the only way justice is served. I could see him and Bats having a stand off with a criminal in between them- Harvey trying to kill him and Bats trying to save him.

 

[Kleric]

Thanks!!! I have been reading posts on the page for about 8 months - and I mean i have read just about EVERY post. This place is freaking hilarious.

Back on topic- I agree with you- Harvey getting scarred, after being a servant of the legal system, should not go straight into Psycho mode who wants to rob banks and cause mass destruction just for the heck of it. Nolan could easily show the audience how Harvey feels guilt about killing the criminals- but he feels that its the only way justice is served. I could see him and Bats having a stand off with a criminal in between them- Harvey trying to kill him and Bats trying to save him.

I agree. I think the dark side of his personality should be kind of an "all or nothing" type. He does what he wants and damn the consequences. If he needs money or resources he takes them. If there is something in his way it is eliminated. After all he played by the rules and look what that got him.

After all he was dedicated to making a positive difference. To just turn that off because of the accident does not make sense. Even in the comic when Batman was going to re-trace his training steps (and took Dick and Tim with him) He left protecting Gotham in the hands of the reformed Harvey. That shows Bruce’s trust in who he thinks Harvey really is.

 

[Citadel30]

I agree. I think the dark side of his personality should be kind of an "all or nothing" type. He does what he wants and damn the consequences. If he needs money or resources he takes them. If there is something in his way it is eliminated. After all he played by the rules and look what that got him.

After all he was dedicated to making a positive difference. To just turn that off because of the accident does not make sense. Even in the comic when Batman was going to re-trace his training steps (and took Dick and Tim with him) He left protecting Gotham in the hands of the reformed Harvey. That shows Bruce’s trust in who he thinks Harvey really is.

Whatever Nolan decides to do with the Harvey/Two Face character- at least we know we WON'T be getting a Tommy Lee Jones maniac. THANK GOD!!!

I am interested if Nolan brings the whole coin thing into play as well. And if he does- will TF's personality directly result from a coin flip? I can't see Nolan doing that- maybe the coin will be a calling card of some sorts or something along those lines.

 

[Two-Face]

Whatever Nolan decides to do with the Harvey/Two Face character- at least we know we WON'T be getting a Tommy Lee Jones maniac. THANK GOD!!!

I am interested if Nolan brings the whole coin thing into play as well. And if he does- will TF's personality directly result from a coin flip? I can't see Nolan doing that- maybe the coin will be a calling card of some sorts or something along those lines.

Why not? Two-Face thinks before he does the deed. Calling card like Joker's?
I don't like that idea at all, explain some more.

 

[Citadel30]

Why not? Two-Face thinks before he does the deed. Calling card like Joker's?
I don't like that idea at all, explain some more.

Well, I know that Two-Face thinks before he does his dirty work- but would you want it shown as Tommy Lee Jones antics? Where in the middle of an action scene- he can't decide what to do so he pulls out a coin and flips it to determine the outcome? I think that is a little too cheesy in Nolan's Batman world. However, I could see TF using a coin as a symbol or something of that nature- showing that there are two sides to everything, including his personality. the calling card comment was just thrown in for jest. t:

 

[Two-Face]

Well, I know that Two-Face thinks before he does his dirty work- but would you want it shown as Tommy Lee Jones antics? Where in the middle of an action scene- he can't decide what to do so he pulls out a coin and flips it to determine the outcome? I think that is a little too cheesy in Nolan's Batman world. However, I could see TF using a coin as a symbol or something of that nature- showing that there are two sides to everything, including his personality. the calling card comment was just thrown in for jest. t:

Comic and TAS versions of Two-Face does flip a coin, it is nothing to do with Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face that was Schumacher's version. He's coin is his trademark of flipping what to do, I don't see a problem of Nolan's version doing the same. Schumacher's Two-Face version flipped so many times when he wanted to kill Bruce at Wayne Manor in BF so there was a problem with other characters not just Two-Face.

 

[Citadel30]

Comic and TAS versions of Two-Face does flip a coin, it is nothing to do with Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face that was Schumacher's version. He's coin is his trademark of flipping what to do, I don't see a problem of Nolan's version doing the same. Schumacher's Two-Face version flipped so many times when he wanted to kill Bruce at Wayne Manor in BF so there was a problem with other characters not just Two-Face.

well, I guess we will have to see what Nolan's take on TF will be- cause ours really doesn't matter in the big picture. haha

regardless, we will be waiting like - what, 3-4 years for a full fledged Two Face?

 

[Victarion]

I'd like to see him either taking out the rest of organized crime with his fellow freaks, or possibly beginning a "Freaks" mob war. So awesome. Imagine the destruction, the mayhem, the chaos...

 

[Keyser Soze]

I'd like to see him either taking out the rest of organized crime with his fellow freaks, or possibly beginning a "Freaks" mob war. So awesome. Imagine the destruction, the mayhem, the chaos...

Good ideas. My idea for Two-Face was for the filmmakers to follow the pattern of "Dark Victory" in the third film. Where Two-Face puts together a group of freaks (himself, Joker, Scarecrow, and maybe new additions like The Riddler, Poison Ivy, possibly Harley Quinn?) and they make a bid to take over Gotham once and for all from the gangsters.

A "Godfather"-style montage of the last remaining gangsters getting picked off one by one would be all kinds of awesome.

 

[Victarion]

In TLH when Harvey flees into the sewers, I'd like to see something like that. Replace Solomon Grundy with Killer Croc and there's a kickass "Freak" roster for BB3.

Where should Two-Face's base-of-operations be guys? I liked the sewer setting myself. Dark, dank, and quite spacious.

 

[Keyser Soze]

In TLH when Harvey flees into the sewers, I'd like to see something like that. Replace Solomon Grundy with Killer Croc and there's a kickass "Freak" roster for BB3.

Where should Two-Face's base-of-operations be guys? I liked the sewer setting myself. Dark, dank, and quite spacious.

I liked the idea of Two-Face hiding in the sewers. But that was already done in "Batman Returns", so using the sewers may bring on the Burton comparisons.

What about having him hide out in The Narrows? Having the man brought to Gotham as a saviour for all the people trapped there, reduced to living among them, would be some poignant symbolism.

 

[Citadel30]

Good ideas. My idea for Two-Face was for the filmmakers to follow the pattern of "Dark Victory" in the third film. Where Two-Face puts together a group of freaks (himself, Joker, Scarecrow, and maybe new additions like The Riddler, Poison Ivy, possibly Harley Quinn?) and they make a bid to take over Gotham once and for all from the gangsters.

A "Godfather"-style montage of the last remaining gangsters getting picked off one by one would be all kinds of awesome.

Do you really think Nolan would put a script together where he has all the freaks together in a gang? I just don't think that would happen with this series. Schumacher used freak criminals working together in his movies and we all know how that turned out. I honestly think that Nolan is going to make each freak not only hate batman- but hate each other as well. I know that in BB Scarecrow worked for Ra's, but Ra's wasn't exaclty a freak and they were never in the same scene together.

 

[DeaDheaD]

Do you really think Nolan would put a script together where he has all the freaks together in a gang? I just don't think that would happen with this series. Schumacher used freak criminals working together in his movies and we all know how that turned out. I honestly think that Nolan is going to make each freak not only hate batman- but hate each other as well. I know that in BB Scarecrow worked for Ra's, but Ra's wasn't exaclty a freak and they were never in the same scene together.

Plus scarecrow was employed by ra's, we might see that, but yea i want a rivalry between the villains

 

[itsthebatman]

Good idea for a thread! t:

To resurrect the old debate: how should Harvey Dent be portrayed? Should he be an all-out good guy, who is turned into a monster by acid being thrown in his face? Or should it be implied that he is already a troubled, morally ambiguous character, and his disfigurement merely brings all this up to the surface?

*rubs hands in glee*
I love this kind of thing.
Harvey should be an upstanding, moral character, fighting the good fight as DA. But that's all surface - underneath he is a deeply conflicted and troubled individual, with father issues (I would leave these unspecified, as in TLH, but maybe imply has Dad has bats in the belfry), giving us a reason for his character defects. Public Harvey is a golden boy, though, loved by all, a brilliant DA, with a great image and tremendous prosecution record. He's tough as well, which is why Bats and Gordon want to work with him. Bats gets the evidence in those cases that Gordon can't break, and gives Harvey the nod when there's enough to make a case. But the pressure starts to tell when he takes on the Maroni case, and Harvey wants Bats to break the rules, maybe even suggests that they can't make the case watertight, that maroni is scum, and should be killed to take him out of the picture. Bats breaks off the relationship, and the subsequent scarring (courtroom - acid- Maroni) brings out the demons in Harv. It is the catalyst, not the cause.
Thoughts? comments?

 

[Keyser Soze]

*rubs hands in glee*
I love this kind of thing.
Harvey should be an upstanding, moral character, fighting the good fight as DA. But that's all surface - underneath he is a deeply conflicted and troubled individual, with father issues (I would leave these unspecified, as in TLH, but maybe imply has Dad has bats in the belfry), giving us a reason for his character defects. Public Harvey is a golden boy, though, loved by all, a brilliant DA, with a great image and tremendous prosecution record. He's tough as well, which is why Bats and Gordon want to work with him. Bats gets the evidence in those cases that Gordon can't break, and gives Harvey the nod when there's enough to make a case. But the pressure starts to tell when he takes on the Maroni case, and Harvey wants Bats to break the rules, maybe even suggests that they can't make the case watertight, that maroni is scum, and should be killed to take him out of the picture. Bats breaks off the relationship, and the subsequent scarring (courtroom - acid- Maroni) brings out the demons in Harv. It is the catalyst, not the cause.
Thoughts? comments?

Great points, and I largely agree with you. Only thing I don't like is Dent suggesting to Batman it would be better if they killed Maroni. That would be the kind of thing he MIGHT think, but wouldn't ever dare express in words, while as Harvey Dent. He shouldn't cross that line until he becomes Two-Face. However, it would be great to show signs of him cracking under the pressure well before that fateful day in the courtroom...

I'm also glad you mentioned Harvey Dent's father. The way I see it, the Two-Face side of Dent's psyche is actually a recreation of his father.

 

[itsthebatman]

Great points, and I largely agree with you. Only thing I don't like is Dent suggesting to Batman it would be better if they killed Maroni. That would be the kind of thing he MIGHT think, but wouldn't ever dare express in words, while as Harvey Dent. He shouldn't cross that line until he becomes Two-Face..

He does just this in Eye of the Beholder, though. Suggests outright that a criminal be offed. If that's too far, what about planting evidence? Also in EOTB, he killed a murderer who he failed to convict, after the killer taunted him. His split personality was VERY pronounced even before the accident. I can live without that, though, and I certainly don't want anything as blatant as Big Bad Harv.

I'm also glad you mentioned Harvey Dent's father. The way I see it, the Two-Face side of Dent's psyche is actually a recreation of his father.

Definitely. But subtle, as in TLH's shot of him in the basement, saying Dad was crazy as ever, and flipping the coin. Leave it unsaid as to just what it was his father did to him. The mere implication of a dark and horrible childhood is enough.

 

[Two-Face]

well, I guess we will have to see what Nolan's take on TF will be- cause ours really doesn't matter in the big picture. haha

regardless, we will be waiting like - what, 3-4 years for a full fledged Two Face?

Yeah we will see what Nolan does with Two-Face. It is perfect character for Nolan to do.

 

[Keyser Soze]

He does just this in Eye of the Beholder, though. Suggests outright that a criminal be offed. If that's too far, what about planting evidence? Also in EOTB, he killed a murderer who he failed to convict, after the killer taunted him. His split personality was VERY pronounced even before the accident. I can live without that, though, and I certainly don't want anything as blatant as Big Bad Harv.

Definitely. But subtle, as in TLH's shot of him in the basement, saying Dad was crazy as ever, and flipping the coin. Leave it unsaid as to just what it was his father did to him. The mere implication of a dark and horrible childhood is enough.

I haven't read "Eye Of The Beholder", but judging from what you've told me, Dent seems to be going to far there. I'd like to think that, despite any flaws or internal darkness, Harvey Dent is ultimately a good person. If he is already a killer, or someone who WOULD kill, before the transformation, then the tragedy is ultimately lost.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

A complete 360 degree turn after a bit of acid is too black and white. So yeah, make him troubled.

Does anybody think he should be friends with Bruce Wayne? Like he was in TAS. I personally think not. I'm thinking more along the lines of TLH.

 

[Kleric]

A complete 360 degree turn after a bit of acid is too black and white. So yeah, make him troubled.

Does anybody think he should be friends with Bruce Wayne? Like he was in TAS. I personally think not. I'm thinking more along the lines of TLH.

I could see them knowing each other due to Bruce’s high profile. I am torn on weather they should be friends or not. There are pros and cons either way.

 

[Figs]

A complete 360 degree turn after a bit of acid is too black and white. So yeah, make him troubled.

Does anybody think he should be friends with Bruce Wayne? Like he was in TAS. I personally think not. I'm thinking more along the lines of TLH.

I also prefer it to be more like TLH. Just keep his involvement with Batman, not so much Bruce Wayne. Although I agree, that I always felt it was too black and white with an instant 360 degree change into psycho/troubled villain just from the acid. I have to wonder, is this movie going to even have good time with Dents character other than him being there to take down the criminals, and meeting on rooftops with Gordon and Batman. Will he be more fleshed out so his spiral into madness makes sense and makes you feel for him?