Hawkingbird No More! YA spoliers within

[Darthphere]

Just because its been done before doesnt mean its not entertaining. Its clear to me you dont know much about these characters. By the way hawkeye predates Han Solo.

 

[deemar325]

The boring part abouty them, in my opinion, is their overwhelming power. I don't like extremely powerful or Cosmic characters, unless they stay relegated to a Cosmic setting. Also, I'm a HUGE student of mythology: this has a two-fold effect on me. First, I see any discrepancy as extremely annoying. Second, I like them better IN their mythological settings, and not here.

Setting/shmettings, Herc and Thor rock!! If you can get behind a guy with a bigass Hammer and a drunken dude who can toss mountains then your a lost cause.



I also have problems with the "Paladin" characters, if you know anything about D&D or other similar fantasy settings. A character that is always good is the most boring thing to read - I like truly conflicted characters; REAL people, if you will.

Theres plenty of conflict in Cap, just cause he's not a hairy, homocidal midget with claws doesn't mean Cap isn't badass.


This has been done a million times before, from Han Solo to Itolacus to Tyrion Lannister.

Um..Han Solo is more Hawkeye than Clint is Solo. Get your cronology straight.



Data, anyone?

Data!? Data!? hey guy Data is a straight rip off of Vision, Vision predates Data by three decades. Hell even Data's yellowish complextion is a rip off Vision when he got a 'new' body in the early 80's with the 'pale look'.

Stan Lee practicaly is the foundation that George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Wachowski Brothers and every other sci-fi/fantasy director and comicbook writer has based their shtick off of.

Darthvader = Dr.Doom

Han Solo/Indiana Jones = Hawkeye

Matrix/Neo = Silver Surfer/everything Stan did!

Terminator = Wolverine's metal skeleton

the Incredibles = Fantastic Four!!

Data = Vision!!

Come on guy, get a clue.

 

[Kotagg]

Yeah, no. Sorry, you misinterpreted me.

I care not about the literal chronology of these things. Keep in mind I'm sharing opinions here; I don't pontificate and act like my opinions are fact.

*I* watched Star Wars before I read comics. *I* watched Star Trek and read many fantasy books before reading comics. Therefore, these things are old hat to *me*. And that's the reason that they are tired when I read them.

As an aside, I think that this -

Stan Lee practicaly is the foundation that George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Wachowski Brothers and every other sci-fi/fantasy director and comicbook writer has based their shtick off of.

- is definitely debatable.

 

[Lord Blackbolt]

isn't there a Hawkeye movie in the works.... I wonder if they'll change him into a GIRL in the movie

 

[deemar325]

It's debatable, yet when you really look at it all these directors I've sited are mad geeks who gave props to Stan on many occasions and admit that they where influenced by Stan Lee and his contemparies.

Just cause Star Wars was your 'vice' of choice, doesn't negate the fact George Lucas was not only a Flash Gordon fan, but also a freak for Marvel comics and Silver surfer in particular. You don't think that didn't effect him in some way when he created StarWars and made a villian in Darthvader thats practicaly Dr.Doom in nature.

Both have an obsession with death and ressurection, both have close relationships/obsessions with their 'mothers' both happen to wear cloaked armor and masks that hide their disfigurements, both have or utilize magical powers. Vader is Doom with a few tweaks and a coating of black leather.

Whether it's 'old hat' to you Stan was a major influence.

 

[Darthphere]

It's debatable, yet when you really look at it all these directors I've sited are mad geeks who gave props to Stan on many occasions and admit that they where influenced by Stan Lee and his contemparies.

Just cause Star Wars was your 'vice' of choice, doesn't negate the fact George Lucas was not only a Flash Gordon fan, but also a freak for Marvel comics and Silver surfer in particular. You don't think that didn't effect him in some way when he created StarWars and made a villian in Darthvader thats practicaly Dr.Doom in nature.

Both have an obsession with death and ressurection, both have close relationships/obsessions with their 'mothers' both happen to wear cloaked armor and masks that hide their disfigurements, both have or utilize magical powers. Vader is Doom with a few tweaks and a coating of black leather.

Whether it's 'old hat' to you Stan was a major influence.

Actually, Star Wars is more likely a rip-off of Jack kirby's New Gods, just ask WIlhelm.

 

[deemar325]

Actually, Star Wars is more likely a rip-off of Jack kirby's New Gods, just ask WIlhelm.

Very true! Well you get my point.

Eitherway Kirby,Stan,Ditko, Lein Wein and Claremont all had an influence, especially now with the up and coming generation of creative talent in both Hollywood and Comics.

JJ Abrahams pretty much copied guys like Alan Moore and Grant Morrison and Chris Claremont's writing style and applied it to T.V.

Wachowski Bros it's all over there work and they started in comics.

 

[Kotagg]

Oh we're agreed that every creation is influenced by creations before it. That's fine. I'm just saying that the archetypes presented here didn't *start* with comics, or Star Wars, or Star Trek, or anything of that nature: they've been around for decades and centuries, in all sorts of media.

Some are just more tired than others, in my not-so-humble opinion.

 

[deemar325]

No prob.

End of the day it's just opinions.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh we're agreed that every creation is influenced by creations before it. That's fine. I'm just saying that the archetypes presented here didn't *start* with comics, or Star Wars, or Star Trek, or anything of that nature: they've been around for decades and centuries, in all sorts of media.

Some are just more tired than others, in my not-so-humble opinion.

It's all a matter of perspective. Most of the archetypes found in comics have been around for centuries. Different people take to different archetypes. Personally, I find the troubled loner archetype really, really, really boring at this point, since there's only so much sulking I can take from an alleged badass.

 

[Kotagg]

Agreed. Actually, I'm in a phase where my favorite characters are the people who are *gasp* regular people thrust into a crazy world. Archetypes in general annoy me lately.

 

[Darthphere]

Agreed. Actually, I'm in a phase where my favorite characters are the people who are *gasp* regular people thrust into a crazy world. Archetypes in general annoy me lately.

Thats an archetype.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yep. The whole point of Jesus was that he was an everyman, after all.

 

[deemar325]

Boo Yah!!! ^

 

[Kotagg]

Thats an archetype.

Yeah, but that's semantics. You get my drift - I mean contrived archetypes. Things that can be classified because they were created to be classified.

Even the "everyman" isn't the same thing as an everyday person with no gimmicks. The difference is a difficult thing to point out, so I won't try, but I think you can understand what I mean.

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah, but that's semantics. You get my drift - I mean contrived archetypes. Things that can be classified because they were created to be classified.

Even the "everyman" isn't the same thing as an everyday person with no gimmicks. The difference is a difficult thing to point out, so I won't try, but I think you can understand what I mean.

I can argue semantics better than Bill Clinton, you better watch out.

 

[deemar325]

"I did not have sexual intercourse with that Frank Cho drawing of She-Hulk."

 

[Anubis]

Then why is it all sticky and smells of bleach?

 

[Kotagg]

Haha see, this place is much better when people realize it's all about fun.

 

[deemar325]

Then why is it all sticky and smells of bleach?

"I have mislead the American people, yes I did indeed have sexual intercourse with a drawing of She-Hulk as drawn by one Frank Cho."